#1817459 - 03/02/10 08:51 AM
Question for those that may know.
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Bottom Hunter
16 Point
Registered: 12/29/06
Posts: 15554
Loc: Hatchie Bottoms
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Can you correlate larger family groups of does to an "out of whack" buck /doe ratio?
IMO, the most "natural" sight is an adult doe with two fawns.
I don't like to see larger groups of does such as five to ten adult does and only a few fawns in a family group.
All these adult does in a family group tells me that some of these does didn't get bred.
Does seeing these larger family groups SAY anything about the local herd......?
Thanks
BH
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#1817492 - 03/02/10 09:17 AM
Re: Question for those that may know.
[Re: Bottom Hunter]
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mathews338
10 Point
Registered: 11/05/09
Posts: 4040
Loc: jackson co.
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good question i've seen 4 or 5 big does with only 2 or 3 fawns before seems like the herd isn't what it should be when you see that
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#1817821 - 03/02/10 12:00 PM
Re: Question for those that may know.
[Re: mathews338]
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Football Hunter
18 Point
Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 24708
Loc: Wilson Co/Perry Co
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Normally,I see does and fawns together.A bunch of does,with a few fawns,I would think could mean they werent bred,or the fawns have been killed,road killed ,predators,or how ever.
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#1817875 - 03/02/10 12:23 PM
Re: Question for those that may know.
[Re: Football Hunter]
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bowriter
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Registered: 08/31/02
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Loc: Lebanon,TN USA
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The answer is no. Much depends on the time of year. Last night I had 21 deer in my yard. Not a one of them was a buck. I know my B/D ratio is no worse than 1:3. This is much of what throws hunters off course. They work on what they see without considering all of the factors.
What if you saw a group of 15 bucks, would you think you had too many bucks?
Have you ever walked into a singles bar at four in the afternoon? Then walked back in at midnight? I think you would find your sex ratios have changed.
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#1817978 - 03/02/10 01:18 PM
Re: Question for those that may know.
[Re: Bottom Hunter]
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BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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Registered: 03/11/99
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Loc: Nashville, TN
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Does seeing these larger family groups SAY anything about the local herd......?
First, it is normal for doe family groups to "bunch up" in winter, but it's been my experience that as deer populations begin to "max out" for an area, social groups become exceptionally large. And remember that right now is the lowest food resource time of year (late winter). You could be seeing a symptom of temporary food limitations that will disappear come spring green-up.
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"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan
"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James
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#1817990 - 03/02/10 01:24 PM
Re: Question for those that may know.
[Re: BSK]
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Bottom Hunter
16 Point
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Posts: 15554
Loc: Hatchie Bottoms
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My thoughts were not so much in terms of sheer numbers but more in the number of adult does v.s. fawns in a large family group???
If you have a family group of fifteen deer walk out during the hunting season and of the fifteen, only three to five are fawns (first year deer), then does that say anything about the herd?
thanks
BH
_________________________
There are some people who always seem angry and continuously look for conflict.
Walk away; the battle they are fighting is not with you, but with themselves.
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#1818006 - 03/02/10 01:36 PM
Re: Question for those that may know.
[Re: Bottom Hunter]
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BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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My thoughts were not so much in terms of sheer numbers but more in the number of adult does v.s. fawns in a large family group???
I've seen no correlation between the percent of the group that are fawns to group size. But when I see large female/fawn social groups in summer and fall I consider this a bad sign.
If you have a family group of fifteen deer walk out during the hunting season and of the fifteen, only three to five are fawns (first year deer), then does that say anything about the herd?
That would be a bad sign. You want see almost as many fawns as adult does (fawn recruitment rate). Generally an overall fawn recruitment rate above 80% (8 fawns for every 10 adult does) is considered "good." In agricultural habitat it should be over 100% (more than 10 fawns for every 10 adult does).
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan
"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James
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#1818014 - 03/02/10 01:41 PM
Re: Question for those that may know.
[Re: BSK]
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Bottom Hunter
16 Point
Registered: 12/29/06
Posts: 15554
Loc: Hatchie Bottoms
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My thoughts were not so much in terms of sheer numbers but more in the number of adult does v.s. fawns in a large family group??? I've seen no correlation between the percent of the group that are fawns to group size. But when I see large female/fawn social groups in summer and fall I consider this a bad sign. If you have a family group of fifteen deer walk out during the hunting season and of the fifteen, only three to five are fawns (first year deer), then does that say anything about the herd? That would be a bad sign. You want see almost as many fawns as adult does (fawn recruitment rate). Generally an overall fawn recruitment rate above 80% (8 fawns for every 10 adult does) is considered "good." In agricultural habitat it should be over 100% (more than 10 fawns for every 10 adult does).
Thanks.....last season during gun season, i had a group of nine Does that you could set a watch by their appearance in a bean field....of the nine, only three were fawns......I was somewhat curious about that.....Would this mean a poor ratio buck to doe, in your opinon or some other factors?
thanks again
Bh
Edited by Bottom Hunter (03/02/10 01:43 PM)
_________________________
There are some people who always seem angry and continuously look for conflict.
Walk away; the battle they are fighting is not with you, but with themselves.
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#1818112 - 03/02/10 02:33 PM
Re: Question for those that may know.
[Re: Bottom Hunter]
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BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 59670
Loc: Nashville, TN
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Thanks.....last season during gun season, i had a group of nine Does that you could set a watch by their appearance in a bean field....of the nine, only three were fawns......I was somewhat curious about that.....Would this mean a poor ratio buck to doe, in your opinon or some other factors?
thanks again
Bh
Something is causing low fawn survival (the vast majority of does get bred even in a highly skewed sex ratio herd). In most cases it is over-population (too many mouths for too little quality food sources) but many things can affect fawn survival. Of late I've been concerned by widespread low fawn recruitment that I've seen across one particular region of the state. I suspect it has something to do with excessive predator numbers, but many other possibilities exist.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan
"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James
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#1818138 - 03/02/10 02:40 PM
Re: Question for those that may know.
[Re: BSK]
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Bottom Hunter
16 Point
Registered: 12/29/06
Posts: 15554
Loc: Hatchie Bottoms
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Thanks.....last season during gun season, i had a group of nine Does that you could set a watch by their appearance in a bean field....of the nine, only three were fawns......I was somewhat curious about that.....Would this mean a poor ratio buck to doe, in your opinon or some other factors?
thanks again
Bh
Something is causing low fawn survival (the vast majority of does get bred even in a highly skewed sex ratio herd). In most cases it is over-population (too many mouths for too little quality food sources) but many things can affect fawn survival. Of late I've been concerned by widespread low fawn recruitment that I've seen across one particular region of the state. I suspect it has something to do with excessive predator numbers, but many other possibilities exist.
Lots of yotes around that area, but also plenty of food IMO...bean fields everywhere and plenty of browse like honeysuckle and all types of mass and greenery......
must be too many predators....
BH
_________________________
There are some people who always seem angry and continuously look for conflict.
Walk away; the battle they are fighting is not with you, but with themselves.
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