#1819482 - 03/03/10 07:55 AM
Re: ANOTHER acreage thread II
[Re: BSK]
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Bottom Hunter
16 Point
Registered: 12/29/06
Posts: 15480
Loc: Hatchie Bottoms
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I have found that during really cold weather, deer will seek out clearcuts that were not cleaned up for this reason....The tops and newly grown grasses provide food and shelter from the wind but the lack of canopy will allow the sun to hit their back.....Much like a sage grass field....
I guess that all things have their good and bad sides...
BH
_________________________
There are some people who always seem angry and continuously look for conflict.
Walk away; the battle they are fighting is not with you, but with themselves.
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#1819498 - 03/03/10 08:08 AM
Re: ANOTHER acreage thread II
[Re: Bottom Hunter]
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BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical
Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 59548
Loc: Nashville, TN
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I have found that during really cold weather, deer will seek out clearcuts that were not cleaned up for this reason....The tops and newly grown grasses provide food and shelter from the wind but the lack of canopy will allow the sun to hit their back.....Much like a sage grass field....
I guess that all things have their good and bad sides...
BH
Deer will definitely bed in downed treetops, especially those cut in summer that still have dead leaves attached. That is the one caveat to deer avoiding newly cut areas. If that is the best cover available deer will definitely bed in newly cut tops. Bu if better security cover exists, they will generally avoid newly cut areas. Of course, much depends on summer rainfall and when the timber was cut. Timber cut in winter may have enough sunshine during the summer growing season to produce decent growth of early succession plants the first summer after timber harvest. Summer rainfall also plays a major role in the rapidity of regrowth in winter-cut areas. A wet summer produces more growth in the cuts the first growing season.
But timber cut in summer during a dry summer rarely produces enough growth in the cuts for deer attraction during the first fall hunting season after the timbering operation is complete. Those areas often need a second growing season (summer) before they have enough growth to be attractive as a food source or bedding area.
"...Much like a sage grass field..."
As Quailman can tell you, that is why Native Warm-Season Grasses (NWSG) make such excellent deer habitat. Some of these grasses can grow 5-6 feet tall and deer will lay in these tall-grass fields during daylight. They are hidden from ground-level view but can still be exposed to full sunlight on cold days.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan
"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James
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#1819517 - 03/03/10 08:30 AM
Re: ANOTHER acreage thread II
[Re: BSK]
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Bottom Hunter
16 Point
Registered: 12/29/06
Posts: 15480
Loc: Hatchie Bottoms
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Since deer will eat most anything green and even munch on twigs and the like, these clearcuts provide about as much food during gthe winter than any other places, other than grain fields.
Mass crops seem to go first and when they are gone and winter sets in, these clearcuts provide about as much food as there is out there and the added PLUS of a lack of canopy (sunshine) just seems to attract the deer. At least that's the way I've seen things around my area for the past 37 years.
I have three large dogs 70 lbs. plus and they always seek out the sun when it's available in the Winter ....on the coldest days, they leave the shelter of the porch (wind shielded) and lay in the wide open yard in the sunshine.
IMO, other than the fact that a recently cut woods looks bad, I can see no bad issues involving deer. IMO, it does nothing but good for the deer, except for the fact that some mass crop trees may be taken out....
In most cases, older mature woods are detrimental for certain wild game species like rabbits, quail, and even deer....
As these woods mature, they provide very little cover and only provide food during good mass crop years......
Give me a select cut woods every time......and even a clearcut is sometimes better than a mature woods...
JMO
Bh
_________________________
There are some people who always seem angry and continuously look for conflict.
Walk away; the battle they are fighting is not with you, but with themselves.
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#1819530 - 03/03/10 08:46 AM
Re: ANOTHER acreage thread II
[Re: Bottom Hunter]
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tndrbstr
16 Point
Registered: 10/06/05
Posts: 12157
Loc: knox co tn
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Since deer will eat most anything green
JMO
Bh
They can be pretty picky if given a choice...
In most cases, older mature woods are detrimental for certain wild game species like rabbits, quail, and even deer....
As these woods mature, they provide very little cover and only provide food during good mass crop years......
Give me a select cut woods every time......and even a clearcut is sometimes better than a mature woods...
JMO
Bh
Thats what has happened to much of our national forest system in east tn....The tree huggers have virtualy eliminated rotational harvest of the forest altogeather. As a result, every species of wildlife that is dependant on early succession growth has suffered...it sux...
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#1819592 - 03/03/10 09:25 AM
Re: ANOTHER acreage thread II
[Re: tndrbstr]
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Bottom Hunter
16 Point
Registered: 12/29/06
Posts: 15480
Loc: Hatchie Bottoms
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most times, we are all picky if given a choice...haha.
watching deer tear twigs off dormant trees and eat them makes me think that they'll eat most anything when times are hard....
much like humans...
haha
BH
_________________________
There are some people who always seem angry and continuously look for conflict.
Walk away; the battle they are fighting is not with you, but with themselves.
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#1819797 - 03/03/10 11:57 AM
Re: ANOTHER acreage thread II
[Re: Bottom Hunter]
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BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical
Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 59548
Loc: Nashville, TN
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watching deer tear twigs off dormant trees and eat them makes me think that they'll eat most anything when times are hard....
Deer will chew on bark if they are hungry enough, but seeing a deer chew on bark doesn't mean they prefer that food.
Yes, deer will nibble on many things. They do have a fairly diverse diet. But problems arise when woody end-buds are all they have to eat or even the majority of what they have to eat. Those end-buds are not very nutritious.
It all comes down to what percent of their total diet is made up of woody stems. If it is high, that's a serious problem.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan
"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James
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#1819806 - 03/03/10 12:02 PM
Re: ANOTHER acreage thread II
[Re: BSK]
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BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical
Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 59548
Loc: Nashville, TN
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One thing to remember is the difference between summer foods and winter foods. Yes, deer may have access to huge soybean fields in summer. But once those crops are harvested, what are deer living on in winter? If all they have is harvested crop fields and mature hardwoods, they are going to struggle during a poor acorn year.
Many hunters understand the concept of food budgets and carrying capacity. However, they forget that summer and winter carrying capacity may be very different. Big soybean fields may produce virtually unlimited carrying capacity in the summer, but acornless hardwood may only have a winter carrying capacity of 5-10 deer per square mile. If that is their only winter food source, then that is true carrying capacity. What they have access to in summer is meaningless. The true carrying capacity is the food available during the lowest food availability time of year. In mature hardwoods, that is very, very low.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan
"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James
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#1819816 - 03/03/10 12:10 PM
Re: ANOTHER acreage thread II
[Re: Bottom Hunter]
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BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical
Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 59548
Loc: Nashville, TN
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Give me a select cut woods every time......and even a clearcut is sometimes better than a mature woods...
Give me a regrowing clear-cut EVERY TIME over select-cut and unthinned mature hardwoods.
A young clear-cut can produce 1,000 pounds of deer food per acre per year, and considering a deer needs around a ton of food per year, the carrying capacity of a clear-cut is 0.5 deer per acre (1 deer for every 2 acres). Mature hardwoods often produce around 50 pounds of food per acre per year, which is a carrying capacity of 0.025 deer per acre (1 deer for every 40 acres). That's a difference of a square mile of clear-cut feeding well over 300 deer versus a square mile of mature hardwoods feeding just 16 deer.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan
"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James
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#1819817 - 03/03/10 12:10 PM
Re: ANOTHER acreage thread II
[Re: BSK]
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richmanbarbeque
16 Point
Registered: 07/17/03
Posts: 12771
Loc: Middle, Tn
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Many hunters understand the concept of food budgets and carrying capacity. However, the forget that summer and winter carrying capacity may be very different. Big soybean fields may produce virtually unlimited carrying capaciy in the summer, but acornless hardwood may only have a winter carrying capacity of 5-10 deer per square mile. If that is their only winter food source, then that is true carrying capacity. What they have access to in summer is meaningless. The true carrying capacity is the food available during the lowest food availability time of year. In mature hardwoods, that is very, very low.
Worth reading again.
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#1819829 - 03/03/10 12:21 PM
Re: ANOTHER acreage thread II
[Re: BSK]
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Wes Parrish
16 Point
Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 16952
Loc: Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN
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The true carrying capacity is the food available during the lowest food availability time of year. In mature hardwoods, that is very, very low.
Put another way, how long can you go without food before your body is harmed or dead?
Doesn't matter if there is surplus of food most of the year, what matters more is how many consecutive days of near zero food can "x" number of deer remain healthy and/or alive.
In my thinking, we should NEVER count acorns as a significant component of carrying capacity.
For these reasons, I believe fall/winter food plots should be planned more to enhance late winter forage than to enhance fall hunting. I prefer planting items that are LESS desirable to deer (than say oats), and produce more forage mass, hopefully still available when the deer really NEED it most.
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