#1816751 - 03/01/10 08:05 PM
Re: Questions for those advocating a 1 or 2 buck limit
[Re: gator-n-buck]
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Deer Bio
Spike
Registered: 02/26/10
Posts: 52
Loc: United states
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I have read numerous post about Tn and a lower buck limit on here for sometime. The subject of Ky seems to always surface.
As a biologist here in Ky, I would like to share some of my knowledge on Ky. We believe that the 1 buck limit has been the largest factor in creating our trophy atmosphere. Any biologist will tell you that there are three factors in growing large deer 1. Age 2. Nutrition 3. Genetics. Age being the biggest factor. We no doubt believe that the 1 buck limit has increased our number of older deer. Older deer equals larger deer. I dont know how anyone can say that lowering the buck limit wouldnt increase the age of the buck population.
I also hear alot of mention about soil. In the past three seasons, our largest typical deer each season has come out of EKY, the one this year being the largest typical killed in the US this season. I promise that most of Tn has better soil than EKY. Its also worth mentioning that Ky's #1 BC producing county, Christian Co, borders Tn.
Do people really believe that Ky's #1 producing BC county, does so simply because of soil? Yet, Tn butts up against this county, and doesnt yield similar results just across the border. Are people suggesting that Ky's soil ends at the state line?
Indiana is 3 years through a 5 year exploratory system where they went to a 1 buck limit. There results have been phenomenal in producing more BC bucks.
Here in Ky, we are fortunate to have a training tool thats been very helpful. Its the Ft.Knox military base. Its about 120,000 acres, with no more than 60,000 acres open to hunting each year. With 60,000 plus acres closed to hunting, its allowed us to truely study our herd with little hunting pressure. We have studied the harvest for dozens and dozens of years. The 120,00 acres has no crops, and very little browse since its mostly mature trees. Its created more BC bucks per acre than any other area, despite being generally poor nutrional, compared to other areas of the state with agriculture.
The area not only produces large antlered deer, but they produce small bodied deer. Even the BC bucks it has produced, can weigh 130-135 pounds. The other interesting trait that these deer have, is age. Its not uncommon for these deer to be 6 1/2, 7 1/2 and 8 1/2. It produces a very old age class of deer.
Great site you guys have here! Look forward to posting more.
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#1816879 - 03/01/10 08:43 PM
Re: Questions for those advocating a 1 or 2 buck limit
[Re: Deer Bio]
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whistlinwingman
8 Point
Registered: 07/11/05
Posts: 1824
Loc: Morristown
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Welcome to the site Deer Bio. I appreciate your information you have provided. I am sure some (many) on here will disagree with you, question your true identity, and still know more than you even though you are a professional.
Personally, I like a two or three buck limit. I like the options of being able to harvest multiple bucks if given the opportunity. But there appear to be positives on the one buck limit. Thanks for your input.
_________________________
"I'm a great believer in luck, I find the harder I work the more I have it" -Thomas Jefferson
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#1816917 - 03/01/10 08:51 PM
Re: Questions for those advocating a 1 or 2 buck limit
[Re: Deer Bio]
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Buzzard
8 Point
Registered: 02/21/08
Posts: 1247
Loc: Rocky Top
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Does this mean if TWRA only allowed 10,000 buck tags to be drawn each year then we could out produce Kentucky for Boone & Crockett Bucks. Where does it stop, maybe only 5k buck tags.
If you want older/larger deer on your farm, quit shooting the 3.5 year olds and then complaining about only having 125" deer in TN. Or you can go hunt very remote/low deer density areas like Eastern Kentucky has plenty of and hope to cross paths with a 5.5 year old freak.
I like being able to manage the areas I hunt and kill a deer or three.
_________________________
"It's the spending stupid"
"Life is Hard, It's harder if you're stupid"
John Wayne
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#1816975 - 03/01/10 09:15 PM
Re: Questions for those advocating a 1 or 2 buck limit
[Re: Buzzard]
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gator-n-buck
16 Point
Registered: 10/22/08
Posts: 14908
Loc: Knox, TN / Palatka, FL
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Does this mean if TWRA only allowed 10,000 buck tags to be drawn each year then we could out produce Kentucky for Boone & Crockett Bucks. Where does it stop, maybe only 5k buck tags.
If you want older/larger deer on your farm, quit shooting the 3.5 year olds and then complaining about only having 125" deer in TN. Or you can go hunt very remote/low deer density areas like Eastern Kentucky has plenty of and hope to cross paths with a 5.5 year old freak.
I like being able to manage the areas I hunt and kill a deer or three.
Ditto, I like having the freedom to make a choice for myself on the the number of bucks I can kill per year within the state regs. I think its up to each individual hunter to decide what his goals are. I also think its up to each individual hunter to decide on the way he wants to manage his hunting property. I kind of wonder why hunters would want TWRA to restrict their hunting opportunities. I find it kind of hard to believe hunters want to give up certain freedoms and some of their hunting rights. Thats what you are doing if your pushing for a one buck limit. If you want to kill one nice buck a year on your hunting property then thats great but you should have the freedom to change your mind and go for # 2 or #3...JMO
Edited by gator-n-buck (03/01/10 09:21 PM)
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#1817022 - 03/01/10 09:31 PM
Re: Questions for those advocating a 1 or 2 buck limit
[Re: gator-n-buck]
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Deer Bio
Spike
Registered: 02/26/10
Posts: 52
Loc: United states
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First, let me be clear. I am not advocating nor suggesting what Tn should or shouldnt do in regards to harvest, seasons, limits, etc. I believe thats a decision made by hunters and biologist of that particular state.
I was simply speaking on a few comments that were made about Ky, our 1 buck limit, soil, etc. I just happen to disagree that our succes is dependent on soil. We have had the same soil for sometime, but havent had the "trophy producing state" tag for that long. Its definitely come since our 1 buck limit, and since deer management has changed among the average hunter.
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#1817083 - 03/01/10 09:49 PM
Re: Questions for those advocating a 1 or 2 buck limit
[Re: gator-n-buck]
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Deer Bio
Spike
Registered: 02/26/10
Posts: 52
Loc: United states
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Does this mean if TWRA only allowed 10,000 buck tags to be drawn each year then we could out produce Kentucky for Boone & Crockett Bucks. Where does it stop, maybe only 5k buck tags.
If you want older/larger deer on your farm, quit shooting the 3.5 year olds and then complaining about only having 125" deer in TN. Or you can go hunt very remote/low deer density areas like Eastern Kentucky has plenty of and hope to cross paths with a 5.5 year old freak.
I like being able to manage the areas I hunt and kill a deer or three. Ditto, I like having the freedom to make a choice for myself on the the number of bucks I can kill per year within the state regs. I think its up to each individual hunter to decide what his goals are. I also think its up to each individual hunter to decide on the way he wants to manage his hunting property. I kind of wonder why hunters would want TWRA to restrict their hunting opportunities. I find it kind of hard to believe hunters want to give up certain freedoms and some of their hunting rights. Thats what you are doing if your pushing for a one buck limit. If you want to kill one nice buck a year on your hunting property then thats great but you should have the freedom to change your mind and go for # 2 or #3...JMO
Thats certainly the hardest part about managing wildlife. Managing hunter desires while managing the herd. Its always a difficult balance to keep.
In Ky, however, we were confident that you couldnt have both. You cant have multiple buck harvest, and the trophy status as well. So while its correct to say thats its up to each individual on what their goals are, hunter success is extremely dependent on bordering landowners. You can pass up every single buck for 20 years on a 200 acre parcel, but if your neighbors shoot everything that walks, and each get 3 or 4 buck tags, your efforts will be wasted.
So sometimes you have to make decisions based on what the majority want.
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#1817094 - 03/01/10 09:56 PM
Re: Questions for those advocating a 1 or 2 buck limit
[Re: Deer Bio]
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Buckhunter72
6 Point
Registered: 10/12/09
Posts: 699
Loc: Wilson and Cannon County
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We have it made in TN for time in the field. The number of trophey bucks will never be like the before mentioned states. If you want to be in the living room watching football all day in late November thru early January, then kill your one buck and do so. I like the long season because I want to be hunting!
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#1817166 - 03/01/10 10:48 PM
Re: Questions for those advocating a 1 or 2 buck limit
[Re: Deer Bio]
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Buckhunter72
6 Point
Registered: 10/12/09
Posts: 699
Loc: Wilson and Cannon County
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Its also worth mentioning that Ky's #1 BC producing county, Christian Co, borders Tn.
Do people really believe that Ky's #1 producing BC county, does so simply because of soil? Yet, Tn butts up against this county, and doesnt yield similar results just across the border. Are people suggesting that Ky's soil ends at the state line?
Yes, you have to admit, there is more corn and bean fields in Christian Co. KY then the whole state of TN. If the soil was that good in TN, you wouldn't see so many fields full of broom sage and bermuda grass, they would be full of crops. I also believe that Stewart and Mongomery counties, our two closest counties to Christian Co. KY, are our best two counties for high scoreing deer.
None the less, welcome to the site.
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#1817169 - 03/01/10 10:52 PM
Re: Questions for those advocating a 1 or 2 buck limit
[Re: Deer Bio]
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DWM
8 Point
Registered: 12/08/06
Posts: 1766
Loc: TN
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So while its correct to say thats its up to each individual on what their goals are, hunter success is extremely dependent on bordering landowners. You can pass up every single buck for 20 years on a 200 acre parcel, but if your neighbors shoot everything that walks, and each get 3 or 4 buck tags, your efforts will be wasted.
That statement is so true and it is hard to make some understand. Many keep saying to manage your own property the way you want but it is not that simple. Lower limits will not change my place much but I know others that would like a lower limit and would benefit a lot.
Deer Bio it is good to hear your views. It is interesting how much different your views are than views from the experts here.
_________________________
Team Witness
Witness in the Woods
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#1817224 - 03/02/10 02:27 AM
Re: Questions for those advocating a 1 or 2 buck limit
[Re: DWM]
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Tree Tramp
8 Point
Registered: 07/22/09
Posts: 1560
Loc: Tennessee
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So while its correct to say thats its up to each individual on what their goals are, hunter success is extremely dependent on bordering landowners. You can pass up every single buck for 20 years on a 200 acre parcel, but if your neighbors shoot everything that walks, and each get 3 or 4 buck tags, your efforts will be wasted. That statement is so true and it is hard to make some understand. Many keep saying to manage your own property the way you want but it is not that simple. Lower limits will not change my place much but I know others that would like a lower limit and would benefit a lot. Deer Bio it is good to hear your views. It is interesting how much different your views are than views from the experts here.
So true indeed. We havent harvested a TN buck on our places in 8 years, doing our part yes but basically we just end up managing for our neighbors to go on a spree. Turkey jizz in my book.
Welcome deer bio! Good to have a real KY expert. 
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