#1800912 - 02/21/10 11:13 AM
Maybe the answer is increasing the limit
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Buzzard
8 Point
Registered: 02/21/08
Posts: 1247
Loc: Rocky Top
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Just a point of view from my 30 years of experience hunting deer in 5 states. I think the size of the herd may affect antler growth as much good soils, row crops, lower buck limits or killng only mature bucks as anything else (ie,carrying capacity).
I have seen several record class bucks come from areas not known for good soils, farmlands or large numbers in general (This includes GA, E KY, MS, AL, E TN and W TN). Most of these freaks occurred when the area had a small population of deer and a growing herd.
As an example, 10 years ago in Rockford, TN (Blount County), I got two different B&C bucks and several 150" class bucks on video, I know one of the bucks was killed (200"+) but never heard of anyone getting the others. Today, with the larger herd in that area, you would be hard pressed to find a deer scoring above 130". I have seen this occur in several areas.
This would indicate to me by allowing the herd to exceed carrying capacity in an area, you may be seeing smaller racks in general. This would include allowing an area to have numerous bucks.
I have never complained about hunters on our leases killing multiple bucks, but I do believe if you see a young buck with good potentiel, you should give him a chance to mature and maybe take out some of his competition.
Just an observation but I have never killed a deer over 125" in an area where the herd exceeded carrying capacity and most areas in West TN do (bucks and does).
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"It's the spending stupid"
"Life is Hard, It's harder if you're stupid"
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#1800931 - 02/21/10 11:21 AM
Re: Maybe the answer is increasing the limit
[Re: Buzzard]
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Mike Belt
TnDeer Old Timer
16 Point
Registered: 03/26/99
Posts: 16933
Loc: Lakeland, Tn.
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I've yet to hunt anywhere in W Tn where the deer herd has exceeded the carrying capacity and you see signs of it from browse lines, etc. I suspect that before deer numbers were as high as they are now and the general population was on the rise that many areas didn't see near the hunting pressure they do now thus many of the bucks in those areas had free reign for advancing in age and size.
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#1800956 - 02/21/10 12:08 PM
Re: Maybe the answer is increasing the limit
[Re: Buzzard]
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Bottom Hunter
16 Point
Registered: 12/29/06
Posts: 15490
Loc: Hatchie Bottoms
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many farmers can apply for permits to shoot deer that are damaging their crops....at what point does this constitute "over the carrying capacity"...?
the farmer that I hunt on begs me every year to kill MORE. he told me to just shoot them and leave them laying and he'll send some of his hands over to get them...I never do.....
he claims that 10% to 20% of his bean crop gets eaten every year.....
in Haywood county we have a three doe per day limit.....pretty much as high as you can go without just saying you can kill as many bucks and does as you want...every day...all season long....
I would much rather watch a field full of bucks than does....I'd rather either put an antler restriction on them or leave the buck limit as low as possible...
JMO
BH
BH
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#1800983 - 02/21/10 12:26 PM
Re: Maybe the answer is increasing the limit
[Re: Bottom Hunter]
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Buzzard
8 Point
Registered: 02/21/08
Posts: 1247
Loc: Rocky Top
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Bottom Hunter,
Not really trying to get buck limits increased, only trying to show that the key to growing large antlered bucks requires many factors. I think low competition for food with other deer is also as important as good soils and age. Some areas that have crops available year round can support larger numbers and growth.
Most of the areas our group hunts have natural browse and crops part of the year, but the stress from competition from large numbers and lack of nutritional food from the available food left in the winter affects rack sizes the following year.
Edited by Buzzard (02/21/10 12:28 PM)
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"It's the spending stupid"
"Life is Hard, It's harder if you're stupid"
John Wayne
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#1802640 - 02/22/10 12:17 PM
Re: Maybe the answer is increasing the limit
[Re: Buzzard]
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BigWes50
10 Point
Registered: 03/04/07
Posts: 3207
Loc: Chattanooga, TN
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I'm not sure on this but I don't think anywhere in TN is to or over carrying capacity?
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Just as the deer can suddenly materialize in the woods, "Therefore you also must be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect" (Matthew 24:44)
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#1802681 - 02/22/10 12:38 PM
Re: Maybe the answer is increasing the limit
[Re: BigWes50]
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stik
TnDeer Old Timer
16 Point
Registered: 03/12/99
Posts: 18427
Loc: lenoir city,tn
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I'm not sure on this but I don't think anywhere in TN is to or over carrying capacity?
i know of several. there is a very visible browse line on one farm in putnam co. that i occasionally get to hunt. lots of areas in meigs co. too.
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#1802725 - 02/22/10 01:08 PM
Re: Maybe the answer is increasing the limit
[Re: stik]
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Winchester
Non-Typical
Registered: 12/05/03
Posts: 25246
Loc: TN
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Believe it or not, TWRA is basically saying the same thing. They experimented this past season with increasing the buck limits in Unit B. The limit was increased in Mid November during the prime MZ hunt by 300% in some cases. The idea being that no matter how high the buck limit, only a certain amount of bucks will be killed regardless what the law allows. This has came about based on the Hunters ability to see and kill bucks that make them happy, as well as self restraint from many hunters by only killing older bucks now, instead of the old mentality of anything with 3 inch antlers died. I may be wrong but I dont think the # of bucks went up very significantly during this increase in limits. Which I will be the first to admit, suprised me in a good way, as i was one that was very worried the yearling bucks would take a beating with the huge increase in limits. It appears however that the hunters responded in a good way and didnt kill 3 young bucks each. I guess the bottom line is, if the hunters mentality has changed enough for most to voluntarily pass the young bucks, the limits are a moot point now, as killing only older bucks will take care of itself in the difficulty associated with doing so.
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#1802764 - 02/22/10 01:35 PM
Re: Maybe the answer is increasing the limit
[Re: Winchester]
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Setterman
8 Point
Registered: 12/31/09
Posts: 1783
Loc: Knoxville, TN
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It surprised me to Winchester, and I also agree that it did not seem to make any difference.
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#1802772 - 02/22/10 01:39 PM
Re: Maybe the answer is increasing the limit
[Re: Setterman]
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Double-D-Team
10 Point
Registered: 12/18/02
Posts: 3483
Loc: God's Country
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Winchester, you are right on the money...I also don't believe it effected or made a difference in Unit B. I have seen more bucks in the past 4 years than ever before...
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THE RICHEST VALUES OF WILDERNESS LIE NOT IN THE DAYS OF DANIEL BOONE NOR EVEN IN THE PRESENT. BUT IN THE FUTURE--LEOPOLD
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#1802784 - 02/22/10 01:49 PM
Re: Maybe the answer is increasing the limit
[Re: Double-D-Team]
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MUP
Non-Typical
Registered: 08/01/07
Posts: 36199
Loc: Just North of Chatt-town
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If that is the case, then seems possible that, with hunters mentality changing to let smaller bucks walk, then the limits may be in need of a raise in the future, and still have no ill effects on the herd still..... right?
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#1802791 - 02/22/10 01:55 PM
Re: Maybe the answer is increasing the limit
[Re: MUP]
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Double-D-Team
10 Point
Registered: 12/18/02
Posts: 3483
Loc: God's Country
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To be honest, From what I've read on the site here on the subject, seem that most hunters will only take 2 to 3 bucks but mostly the average is 1 per hunter. I'd like to see the states on Lic sales vs. number of bucks killed per hunter.
_________________________
Don and Dee (DOUBLE-D-TEAM)
THE RICHEST VALUES OF WILDERNESS LIE NOT IN THE DAYS OF DANIEL BOONE NOR EVEN IN THE PRESENT. BUT IN THE FUTURE--LEOPOLD
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#1802827 - 02/22/10 02:23 PM
Re: Maybe the answer is increasing the limit
[Re: MUP]
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Winchester
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Registered: 12/05/03
Posts: 25246
Loc: TN
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If that is the case, then seems possible that, with hunters mentality changing to let smaller bucks walk, then the limits may be in need of a raise in the future, and still have no ill effects on the herd still..... right?
Basically what it is telling us is: no matter what the limit is set at (how high) most hunters wont kill more than they are already killing now, so there is no need to lower the limits, as hunters are taking care of the problem themselves by being selective, which enables TWRA to keep the buck limits at 3 and make everybody happy without changing a thing, even the few who kill 3 are still happy as well as the ones with self limits of less each year.
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#1803681 - 02/22/10 07:58 PM
Re: Maybe the answer is increasing the limit
[Re: ]
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gator-n-buck
16 Point
Registered: 10/22/08
Posts: 14908
Loc: Knox, TN / Palatka, FL
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Buck limits seem to be more of a problem for some hunters, then it is for the bucks or the deer herd..... 
Edited by gator-n-buck (02/22/10 07:58 PM)
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#1804466 - 02/23/10 10:04 AM
Re: Maybe the answer is increasing the limit
[Re: gator-n-buck]
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BigWes50
10 Point
Registered: 03/04/07
Posts: 3207
Loc: Chattanooga, TN
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I say lets go a buck a day!
_________________________
Just as the deer can suddenly materialize in the woods, "Therefore you also must be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect" (Matthew 24:44)
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#1807274 - 02/24/10 07:06 PM
Re: Maybe the answer is increasing the limit
[Re: Double-D-Team]
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Boone 58
16 Point
Registered: 06/23/04
Posts: 13540
Loc: Food Plot
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I like the three limit and would support 2.
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#1815425 - 02/28/10 08:55 PM
Re: Maybe the answer is increasing the limit
[Re: Boone 58]
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budro2
Spike
Registered: 02/27/10
Posts: 74
Loc: tn,perry
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lots of area in W TN that are overbrowsed and high deer density. We have had 2 major outbreaks of EHD in the last 5-6 yrs , which is a good sign of overpopulation. " natures way"
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#1815503 - 02/28/10 09:26 PM
Re: Maybe the answer is increasing the limit
[Re: budro2]
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gator-n-buck
16 Point
Registered: 10/22/08
Posts: 14908
Loc: Knox, TN / Palatka, FL
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I'm going to support what TWRA puts in place.... They are the ones doing state wide studies. They are the ones checking in deer. They are the ones putting the work in year round.... If you are doing these things or more, I might want to hear what you have found... If not, you might want to listen and learn...JMO
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