#1794938 - 02/17/10 02:24 PM
Re: Proof that it will work in TENNESSEE....
[Re: gator-n-buck]
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TLRanger
8 Point
Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 1041
Loc: Nashville
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The best reason for a lower buck limit is it would improve the buck/doe ratio. A side benefit would be a slight improvement in the age structure of the bucks. This would only occur if there are more opportunities to kill antlerless (doe) deer.
I also hunt in KY where there is a one buck limit. I would prefer a two buck limit there.......one archery and one gun but at least in KY you get two deer per permit which isn't too bad. If you haven't heard, KY has much better dirt than TN.
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Twentynine Pines Hunting Club: Carroll Co. TN
Whitetail Lodge Hunting Club: Nelson Co. KY
USMC - Naval Security Group
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#1794999 - 02/17/10 02:57 PM
Re: Proof that it will work in TENNESSEE....
[Re: TLRanger]
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BigGameGuy
TWRA Biologist
12 Point
Registered: 05/14/04
Posts: 6353
Loc: Nashville
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Thought ya'll might enjoy this...
The following is an excerpt from an e-mail conversation I am currently having with the Mike Tonkovich, the Ohio deer coordinator. Don't worry about the gist of the conversation, just take a look at the highlighted areas.
Because the majority of bucks harvested each year are 1.5 years old, the annual buck harvest is largely a function of the size of the doe population (and fawn crop) the previous spring. Since there is little adult doe mortality from fawning to prehunt, I suppose you could extend this to the prehunt doe population from the previous year. Thus, in the case of the 2009-10 buck harvest, it is most closely tied to the size of the prehunt 2008 doe population. In the context of harvest regulations, the 2009-10 buck harvest is largely a function of the 2007-08 season, as this would have determined the size of the spring 2008 doe population and fawn crop and ultimately the number of yearling bucks harvested this year. To a lesser extent, the 2008 antlerless harvest (and correspondingly the 2008-09 harvest regulations) would impact this year’s buck harvest too, since nearly 25% of our antlerless deer taken each year are button bucks. Buttons taken in 2008-09, can’t be taken as yearling bucks the following year! Given the above, how do you interpret the 6% increase in the 2009-10 buck harvest?
I just wanted to post that for all the folks that believe the "trophy" states are killing that many more monsters because the age of their harvested herd is so much more advanced than ours... 
Also, I'm pretty pleased with our 10% button ratio.
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If given the choice between education and regulation, I'll choose education every time.
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#1795008 - 02/17/10 03:01 PM
Re: Proof that it will work in TENNESSEE....
[Re: BigGameGuy]
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Tree Tramp
8 Point
Registered: 07/22/09
Posts: 1560
Loc: Tennessee
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Ohio is definitely a trophy state. What is the buck limit there?
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#1795016 - 02/17/10 03:08 PM
Re: Proof that it will work in TENNESSEE....
[Re: Tree Tramp]
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BigGameGuy
TWRA Biologist
12 Point
Registered: 05/14/04
Posts: 6353
Loc: Nashville
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Ohio is a one buck limit.
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If given the choice between education and regulation, I'll choose education every time.
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#1795049 - 02/17/10 03:27 PM
Re: Proof that it will work in TENNESSEE....
[Re: BigGameGuy]
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Tree Tramp
8 Point
Registered: 07/22/09
Posts: 1560
Loc: Tennessee
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 Has Mike seen any of gator-n-bucks studies on buck limits? 
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#1795078 - 02/17/10 03:40 PM
Re: Proof that it will work in TENNESSEE....
[Re: Tree Tramp]
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whistlinwingman
8 Point
Registered: 07/11/05
Posts: 1824
Loc: Morristown
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It is still a science. Nothing can or will be proven either way. All I know is that we are a whole lot further along than we were in the 70's and I have the utmost confidence in our agency to set the buck limits. It has not affected how many or what I have shot this year or the years before. If it was a one buck limit people would still be mad at the "Spike Hunters". We are very, very fortunate to have the limits we have. I don't want to see them any higher by no means, but I like the fact that I can kill a couple bucks every year.
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"I'm a great believer in luck, I find the harder I work the more I have it" -Thomas Jefferson
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#1795194 - 02/17/10 04:51 PM
Re: Proof that it will work in TENNESSEE....
[Re: Beekeeper]
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gator-n-buck
16 Point
Registered: 10/22/08
Posts: 14908
Loc: Knox, TN / Palatka, FL
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I posted this on the original post and I knew we would be talking about other states and what they got. You are comparing apples and oranges.
I don't want to hear that this state has done it and it has worked. That would be like comparing the size of bass caught in FL to the ones that are caught in TN. No matter what we do, the bass in FL will always grow bigger than the bass in TN. Thats just the way it is.....
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#1795312 - 02/17/10 06:00 PM
Re: Proof that it will work in TENNESSEE....
[Re: gator-n-buck]
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Tree Tramp
8 Point
Registered: 07/22/09
Posts: 1560
Loc: Tennessee
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If you truly are looking for answers that more restrictive regulations have impacts on buck age structure/antlers in TN then look at good soil PI and bad soil HAAP. Both have big ole monsters in huntable #s. If not keep stirring.
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#1795632 - 02/17/10 07:50 PM
Re: Proof that it will work in TENNESSEE....
[Re: gator-n-buck]
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DWM
8 Point
Registered: 12/08/06
Posts: 1766
Loc: TN
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Wes and DWM,
But what you're forgetting is the whole argument against the new season dates and statewide 3 buck limit was that 1) it would cause far more bucks to be killed; and 2) it would cause a big increase in the kill of young bucks.
Neither of those happened. In fact, if someone asked me to find something "biologically negative" about the results of last year's limits and seasons, I would be hard pressed to do so, short of perhaps not enough does killed. But hunters 1) didn't kill significantly more bucks; 2) had the positive results of killing more 3 1/2+ bucks; and 3) killed the fewest number of yearling bucks in years. What's not to like about that?
Don't get me wrong. Personally I prefer a statewide 2 buck limit simply out of principle. But if pushed to state a biological reason for a 2 buck limit, I can't do it. No good biological reason exists at this point. Of course, we only have one year's data to work from, and making "grand" decisions based on a single year's data is always dangerous. No I haven't forgot any of that stuff. I was just saying that this years limits did not create more 3 1/2 year old bucks. Now biologically the difference between a 2 and 3 buck limit would probably not even be measurable since our deer are already in good shape. Like I have said before I believe a 2 buck limit will give a higher percentage of hunter success and a few more mature bucks. I believe you yourself has said that your buck numbers were down this year. And yes I remember you saying several times you would like the 2 buck limit. I know there are several like you that do not hunt with every weapon and that is why I favor the 2 buck limit over the 1 per weapon. I'm just glad things are better than they were in the 70's!
I completely agree hunters do have to make their own success. But success is partly due to oppurtunity. Let me make sure I understand you correctly. Are you saying that having more bucks in the woods will not create more oppurtunity for more people to kill a buck of any age?
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Witness in the Woods
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#1795659 - 02/17/10 08:01 PM
Re: Proof that it will work in TENNESSEE....
[Re: ]
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WestTn Huntin'man
16 Point
Registered: 11/19/06
Posts: 10873
Loc: Benton Co.
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why wouldnt it work???????????????
It would provide more deer for the farmers to shoot with depredation permits. It would provide more deer for cars to hit.Also more deer for poachers and night hunters.
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