#1795817 - 02/17/10 09:11 PM
Re: Proof that it will work in TENNESSEE....
[Re: DWM]
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gator-n-buck
16 Point
Registered: 10/22/08
Posts: 14908
Loc: Knox, TN / Palatka, FL
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Wes and DWM,
But what you're forgetting is the whole argument against the new season dates and statewide 3 buck limit was that 1) it would cause far more bucks to be killed; and 2) it would cause a big increase in the kill of young bucks.
Neither of those happened. In fact, if someone asked me to find something "biologically negative" about the results of last year's limits and seasons, I would be hard pressed to do so, short of perhaps not enough does killed. But hunters 1) didn't kill significantly more bucks; 2) had the positive results of killing more 3 1/2+ bucks; and 3) killed the fewest number of yearling bucks in years. What's not to like about that?
Don't get me wrong. Personally I prefer a statewide 2 buck limit simply out of principle. But if pushed to state a biological reason for a 2 buck limit, I can't do it. No good biological reason exists at this point. Of course, we only have one year's data to work from, and making "grand" decisions based on a single year's data is always dangerous. No I haven't forgot any of that stuff. I was just saying that this years limits did not create more 3 1/2 year old bucks. Now biologically the difference between a 2 and 3 buck limit would probably not even be measurable since our deer are already in good shape. Like I have said before I believe a 2 buck limit will give a higher percentage of hunter success and a few more mature bucks. I believe you yourself has said that your buck numbers were down this year. And yes I remember you saying several times you would like the 2 buck limit. I know there are several like you that do not hunt with every weapon and that is why I favor the 2 buck limit over the 1 per weapon. I'm just glad things are better than they were in the 70's! I completely agree hunters do have to make their own success. But success is partly due to oppurtunity. Let me make sure I understand you correctly. Are you saying that having more bucks in the woods will not create more oppurtunity for more people to kill a buck of any age?
We all know there are more deer in west TN, then E. TN. There are guys in E. TN that kill big bucks every year. There are guys that hunt in W. TN that never kill big bucks. More deer don't make better hunters....
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#1795828 - 02/17/10 09:16 PM
Re: Proof that it will work in TENNESSEE....
[Re: gator-n-buck]
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JCDEERMAN
14 Point
Registered: 07/19/08
Posts: 7635
Loc: NASHVILLE, TN
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We all know there are more deer in west TN, then E. TN. There are guys in E. TN that kill big bucks every year. There are guys that hunt in W. TN that never kill big bucks. More deer don't make better hunters....
There ya go.....It's all about THE WAY YOU HUNT. Obviously, there are better opportunities on different properties, but 5 miles down the road may have a totally different story to tell. There are big mature bucks all across the state...dont know how anyone could dispute that....whether they kill them or not is a different story
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#1796180 - 02/18/10 08:25 AM
Re: Proof that it will work in TENNESSEE....
[Re: DWM]
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BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical
Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 59548
Loc: Nashville, TN
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I completely agree hunters do have to make their own success. But success is partly due to oppurtunity. Let me make sure I understand you correctly. Are you saying that having more bucks in the woods will not create more oppurtunity for more people to kill a buck of any age?
KY and TN believe they have about the same number of deer but KY hunters kill fewer total bucks year after year hence should have many more bucks that survive from year to year. If both state's estimates of their deer population and harvest are accurate, KY has to have more bucks in the population at the beginning of the season, meaning more opportunity. Yet KY hunters DON'T kill more older bucks in number or percentage of the buck harvest. So if opportunity (number of older bucks in the population) drives hunter success, why don't KY hunters benefit from their greater opportunity?
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"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James
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#1796204 - 02/18/10 08:34 AM
Re: Proof that it will work in TENNESSEE....
[Re: BSK]
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51 pointer
4 Point
Registered: 10/03/09
Posts: 436
Loc: Tennessee
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Why does anyone want a three buck limit?
And how is it better for the Buck population than a lower buck limit?
If you want meat kill a doe, right?
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#1796211 - 02/18/10 08:39 AM
Re: Proof that it will work in TENNESSEE....
[Re: BSK]
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DWM
8 Point
Registered: 12/08/06
Posts: 1766
Loc: TN
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I completely agree hunters do have to make their own success. But success is partly due to oppurtunity. Let me make sure I understand you correctly. Are you saying that having more bucks in the woods will not create more oppurtunity for more people to kill a buck of any age? KY and TN believe they have about the same number of deer but KY hunters kill fewer total bucks year after year hence should have many more bucks that survive from year to year. If both state's estimates of their deer population and harvest are accurate, KY has to have more bucks in the population at the beginning of the season, meaning more opportunity. Yet KY hunters DON'T kill more older bucks in number or percentage of the buck harvest. So if opportunity (number of older bucks in the population) drives hunter success, why don't KY hunters benefit from their greater opportunity?
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#1796377 - 02/18/10 10:12 AM
Re: Proof that it will work in TENNESSEE....
[Re: gator-n-buck]
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DWM
8 Point
Registered: 12/08/06
Posts: 1766
Loc: TN
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[quote=gator-n-buck]
I completely agree hunters do have to make their own success. But success is partly due to oppurtunity. Let me make sure I understand you correctly. Are you saying that having more bucks in the woods will not create more oppurtunity for more people to kill a buck of any age? We all know there are more deer in west TN, then E. TN. There are guys in E. TN that kill big bucks every year. There are guys that hunt in W. TN that never kill big bucks. More deer don't make better hunters....
I see part of the reason you do not see what I am saying. You must not be reading everything all the way to the end. You are saying "big bucks" and in my last line I said "a buck of any age". More deer don't make better hunters but it could help the average hunter have better chances. I am like everybody else in this discussion, none of us know for sure what it would do here in Tn. A one year trial would still not show you the effects either. Plus any other change made the same year could be blamed for what differences that showed up.
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Witness in the Woods
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#1796421 - 02/18/10 10:35 AM
Re: Proof that it will work in TENNESSEE....
[Re: DWM]
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BigWes50
10 Point
Registered: 03/04/07
Posts: 3207
Loc: Chattanooga, TN
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Somebody answer me this, When KY implented their 1 buck limit which I do believe was 5 or 6 years ago (somebody at any point correct my dates and limits) did they all of a sudden get better soil too? KY has put more book bucks in the last 5 years than any other state! Did they just all of a sudden get a bunch of bucks to come down from Illinois?
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Just as the deer can suddenly materialize in the woods, "Therefore you also must be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect" (Matthew 24:44)
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#1796686 - 02/18/10 01:14 PM
Re: Proof that it will work in TENNESSEE....
[Re: DWM]
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gator-n-buck
16 Point
Registered: 10/22/08
Posts: 14908
Loc: Knox, TN / Palatka, FL
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[quote=gator-n-buck]
I completely agree hunters do have to make their own success. But success is partly due to oppurtunity. Let me make sure I understand you correctly. Are you saying that having more bucks in the woods will not create more oppurtunity for more people to kill a buck of any age? We all know there are more deer in west TN, then E. TN. There are guys in E. TN that kill big bucks every year. There are guys that hunt in W. TN that never kill big bucks. More deer don't make better hunters.... I see part of the reason you do not see what I am saying. You must not be reading everything all the way to the end. You are saying "big bucks" and in my last line I said "a buck of any age". More deer don't make better hunters but it could help the average hunter have better chances. I am like everybody else in this discussion, none of us know for sure what it would do here in Tn. A one year trial would still not show you the effects either. Plus any other change made the same year could be blamed for what differences that showed up.
I'm not about splitting hairs. I don't know many hunters that are against the 3 buck limit that are wanting other hunters to shoot "bucks of any age". The one or two buck limit guys are all about big racks and trophy hunting. don't get me wrong, I love big racks but I don't think we should punish the majority of the hunters in TN to fill our own needs. After reading all these threads on buck limits, its pretty easy to read between the lines.. JMO
P.S. I didn't have a problem with the 2 buck limit in Unit B nor would I have a problem with a 2 buck limit state wide... I'm not going to bash the regs. or TWRA about a theory I can't prove... One buck limit is a whole other story...
Edited by gator-n-buck (02/18/10 02:39 PM)
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#1796694 - 02/18/10 01:17 PM
Re: Proof that it will work in TENNESSEE....
[Re: gator-n-buck]
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MUP
Non-Typical
Registered: 08/01/07
Posts: 36199
Loc: Just North of Chatt-town
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After all, deer are deer, right?
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MUP
Amateurs: Built the Ark
Professionals: Built the Titanic
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#1796853 - 02/18/10 02:53 PM
Re: Proof that it will work in TENNESSEE....
[Re: BigWes50]
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gator-n-buck
16 Point
Registered: 10/22/08
Posts: 14908
Loc: Knox, TN / Palatka, FL
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Somebody answer me this, When KY implented their 1 buck limit which I do believe was 5 or 6 years ago (somebody at any point correct my dates and limits) did they all of a sudden get better soil too? KY has put more book bucks in the last 5 years than any other state! Did they just all of a sudden get a bunch of bucks to come down from Illinois?
The state records were killed in 2000 and 2004. This might of been prior to the one buck limit.
Kentucky Record Bucks
Typical: 204 2/8 (2000)
Non-Typical: 270 5/8 (2004)
Edited by gator-n-buck (02/18/10 02:57 PM)
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