#1772844 - 02/07/10 07:28 PM
Re: BSK Please Age
[Re: Hillbilly Hunter]
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Wes Parrish
16 Point
Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 16988
Loc: Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN
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With near 100% accuracy, as can fawns.
I've also aged several small-bodied deer that turned into very large-bodied fawns upon looking at their teeth. The hunters had just thought they were a small-bodied adult doe.
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#1773535 - 02/08/10 07:18 AM
Re: BSK Please Age
[Re: Big Buck]
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BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical
Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 59548
Loc: Nashville, TN
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I agree
Deer dreseed 118 lbs
That would put him at about 155 lbs live weight. That is a very large yearling buck. But also a very good sign!
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan
"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James
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#1773691 - 02/08/10 08:59 AM
Re: BSK Please Age
[Re: BSK]
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Winchester
Non-Typical
Registered: 12/05/03
Posts: 25245
Loc: TN
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Definitely not unheard of for a yearling, but a good size body nonetheless.
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#1779343 - 02/10/10 01:47 PM
Re: BSK Please Age
[Re: Winchester]
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skin_dog1
Button
Registered: 07/27/08
Posts: 14
Loc: KY
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Tooth eruption is very accurate when someone is trained up to the age of 2.5 beyond that, studies have shown molar wear which is whats used by most biologist to be very inaccurate. Read the info below about the different methods of agind deer:
How effective are each of the methods for aging Deer? (Cementum Annuli and Wear/Eruption)
In a study done by Kenneth L. Hamlin et al. of the Montana Fish, Wildlife, and Parks ( Journal of Wildlife Management 64(2):441-449) accuracy rates of cementum annuli were 97.3% for elk through age 14, 92.6% for mule deer through age 14, and 85.1% for white-tailed deer through 9 years old.
Tooth eruption or tooth replacement is a highly reliable way to age mammals until they have all their permanent teeth. In whitetails you can accurately place deer as 6 months old, 18 months old, or 2 ˝ or older using this easily learned technique.
This is probably a good time to bring up one of the most popular and prevalent myths of how to age game mammals, molar wear aging. This technique suggests that we should be able to determine the age of a mammal by looking at the wear on the molars. Sort of like determining the age of your tires by tread wear. In the same study by Hamlin referred to above; the accuracy of molar wear aging was 62.3% for mule deer, 42.9% for whitetails, and 50% for elk in the 3-4 year classes, 16% for elk 5 years old. They ultimately concluded that “The accuracy provided by the cementum annuli method is necessary to determine whether various physical and population parameters change significantly with age of the animal.” So what is the source of this popular myth of molar wear aging? In 1949 Wildlife Biologist C.W. Severinghaus published a study “Tooth Development and Wear as a Criteria of Age in White-tailed Deer” Journal of Wildlife Management 13:195-215. In this study he suggested two methods of aging; Eruption or tooth replacement aging and Molar wear aging. Subsequent studies since 1949 have supported his eruption aging results, but no study has been able to validate his hypothesis concerning molar wear aging. In fact in addition to the Hamlin study cited above here are some more comments by wildlife biologists in recent years:
….this widely used technique (molar wear) is very inaccurate for classifying adult deer…. (Ken Gee, Wildlife Biologist, Noble Foundation Wildlife Unit 1996 study)
We believe age-specific information and conclusions drawn….using the tooth-wear aging technique to “determine” ages of adult white-tail deer are unfounded…Review of all other published data sets using known-age deer supports this conclusion.(Wildlife Society Bulletin 2002, 30(2):387-393 Ken Gee et al.)
Ages assigned by … wear criteria were not reliable….. (Kenneth Hamlin et al. 2000 Journal of Wildlife Management 64(2):441-449)
….we conclude that tooth replacement and wear should be used for deer <2-1/2 years old, while cementum annuli should be used for deer >3-1/2 years old. (Mickey W. Hellickson, Ph.D. King Ranch Chief Wildlife Biologist 2007)
Curiously this molar wear aging is still part of the course curriculum taught to current wildlife biology students. That is probably a key reason that the myth continues.
In conclusion, if someone wants to really know the age of mature trophy game mammals, the only choice is cementum annuli aging.
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#1779449 - 02/10/10 02:41 PM
Re: BSK Please Age
[Re: skin_dog1]
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Wes Parrish
16 Point
Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 16988
Loc: Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN
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In conclusion, if someone wants to really know the age of mature trophy game mammals, the only choice is cementum annuli aging.
And even that is far from fool-proof.
Will always be a human error factor, such as the lab mixing up specimens.
I don't have it handy, but just a couple years ago I read a paper where tooth specimens from deer with known ages were sent off to a lab for aging. The error rate was so high, my thoughts became, "Why bother." But I agree this method COULD be much more accurate.
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#1779459 - 02/10/10 02:49 PM
Re: BSK Please Age
[Re: Wes Parrish]
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Hillbilly Hunter
Killbilly
16 Point
Registered: 07/15/05
Posts: 16982
Loc: Branchville
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if the numbers are correct, 85% is much better than 43%
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...they never call me by my name, just Hillbilly...
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#1779460 - 02/10/10 02:52 PM
Re: BSK Please Age
[Re: Hillbilly Hunter]
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Wes Parrish
16 Point
Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 16988
Loc: Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN
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if the numbers are correct, 85% is much better than 43%
Generaly speaking, I'd be among the first to agree.
But I'd rather be off by a year (my calling a 6 1/2 a 5 1/2),
than a lab error swapping a 3 1/2 with a 6 1/2, reversing their ages.
Or maybe should say, rather be off a lot by a little, than off a little by a lot?!? 
Oh, heck, I'm just a little off, period. 
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#1779474 - 02/10/10 03:01 PM
Re: BSK Please Age
[Re: Wes Parrish]
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Hillbilly Hunter
Killbilly
16 Point
Registered: 07/15/05
Posts: 16982
Loc: Branchville
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an error is an error, reguardless if it is made at home or at a lab.
_________________________
...they never call me by my name, just Hillbilly...
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#1779496 - 02/10/10 03:11 PM
Re: BSK Please Age
[Re: Hillbilly Hunter]
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AlanP
TWRA Biologist
8 Point
Registered: 10/02/02
Posts: 2483
Loc: Tennessee
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No question about it, tooth replacement and wear is far from absolutely, 100% accurate. However, the "tooth replacement" part is pretty accurate. More accurate than the "wear" part is. Tooth replacement is used for fawns and yearlings. They are easy to distinguish, if you know what you are looking for. In the photos at the beginning of this thread, the third tooth is a baby tooth, and it is about to fall out. You can see the adult tooth coming up underneath it. That happens when a deer is about 18 months old. It won't happen when it is a fawn, and it won't wait to happen when it gets old.
Certainly, cementum annuli may be more accurate, especially as deer get older. But there is a trade off. It costs money. So, do you collect some small amount of age data (only as much as you can afford) even if the data is more accurate, or do you collect a larger amount of data, knowing that accuracy may suffer in the older age classes? Or do you try to do a combination of both?
_________________________
If you don't look at the teeth, you're guessing at the age.
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