#1764778 - 02/03/10 03:59 PM
Re: LBL- TN or KY which side is better?
[Re: Wildcat]
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Wes Parrish
16 Point
Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 16967
Loc: Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN
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For years I would have picked KY side, not only because I knew it better but I saw more big bucks on that side all the time plus the two guys that used to farm most of LBL also told me several times that the KY side held more big bucks from what they saw everytime they was working the crops. Don't know if you're talking about Mike & Kerry (the current guys who farm the most of LBL), but they'd probably tell you they're now seeing similarly on both sides of the state line.
For many years, the KY side of LBL had less gun hunting than the TN side, resulting in a little better age structure in KY, at least that's my take. Although what was there and what was killed were two different things. Both sides have a little better buck age structure today than either had a few years ago. But like most WMA's, relatively few bucks live past 3 1/2 years of age, and you can probably count on one hand the number of 5 1/2's that are usually killed on both the KY & TN sides combined.
Or put it this way:
A weekend archery hunt at relatively tiny President's Island WMA can produce more 5 1/2-yr-old bucks than all the annual gun hunting at the 173,000-acre LBL. Deer-hunting-wise, main thing LBL has going for me is it's "convenient" for when I want a change of scenery. In terms of hunting "opportunity" per hour afield, LBL may not hold a candle to several other WMA's where hunter success is much greater (per hour afield), such as Ft. Campbell WMA, Oak Ridge WMA, etc. As I'm often asked, "Why you want to go hunt LBL with a bow, when you can hunt Campbell with a gun?" More "convenient" for me to hunt LBL.
I don't mean to sound as though I don't appreciate the hunting opportunity at LBL, as I actually believe it's better at LBL than most WMA's in Tennessee, and "most" (LBL included) have in fact gotten a little better over the past few years. Compared to when I started deer hunting in TN, we are truly blessed to have so many decent public WMA's from which to choose, and nearly all are less crowded with deer hunters today than they were in the 1970's and 80's.
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#1764824 - 02/03/10 04:21 PM
Re: LBL- TN or KY which side is better?
[Re: Wes Parrish]
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nate17
8 Point
Registered: 08/06/09
Posts: 1154
Loc: Illinois
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For years I would have picked KY side, not only because I knew it better but I saw more big bucks on that side all the time plus the two guys that used to farm most of LBL also told me several times that the KY side held more big bucks from what they saw everytime they was working the crops. Don't know if you're talking about Mike & Kerry (the current guys who farm the most of LBL), but they'd probably tell you they're now seeing similarly on both sides of the state line. For many years, the KY side of LBL had less gun hunting than the TN side, resulting in a little better age structure in KY, at least that's my take. Although what was there and what was killed were two different things. Both sides have a little better buck age structure today than either had a few years ago. But like most WMA's, relatively few bucks live past 3 1/2 years of age, and you can probably count on one hand the number of 5 1/2's that are usually killed on both the KY & TN sides combined. Or put it this way: A weekend archery hunt at relatively tiny President's Island WMA can produce more 5 1/2-yr-old bucks than all the annual gun hunting at the 173,000-acre LBL. Deer-hunting-wise, main thing LBL has going for me is it's "convenient" for when I want a change of scenery. In terms of hunting "opportunity" per hour afield, LBL may not hold a candle to several other WMA's where hunter success is much greater (per hour afield), such as Ft. Campbell WMA, Oak Ridge WMA, etc. As I'm often asked, "Why you want to go hunt LBL with a bow, when you can hunt Campbell with a gun?" More "convenient" for me to hunt LBL. I don't mean to sound as though I don't appreciate the hunting opportunity at LBL, as I actually believe it's better at LBL than most WMA's in Tennessee, and "most" (LBL included) have in fact gotten a little better over the past few years. Compared to when I started deer hunting in TN, we are truly blessed to have so many decent public WMA's from which to choose, and nearly all are less crowded with deer hunters today than they were in the 1970's and 80's.
So my question is, have you seen lbl's harvest numbers or are you just guessing?
Seems like everybody is judging which side might possibly hold better deer, based of a few deer sightings and some farmer stories rather than looking at the actual data. jmo
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#1764836 - 02/03/10 04:25 PM
Re: LBL- TN or KY which side is better?
[Re: Rackseeker]
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TLRanger
8 Point
Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 1040
Loc: Nashville
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I hunt both Ky and TN sides of LBL. I cannot tell the difference in the quality of the bucks between the two but I believe the TN side has more deer per square mile than KY.
Anyway, there is a one buck limit there no matter which state you hunt. I would like to see that changed back to one buck per state because of having to buy license for each state. If it is one buck per area, either license should be valid for the whole area. Oh well, that is a totally different subject.
_________________________
Twentynine Pines Hunting Club: Carroll Co. TN Whitetail Lodge Hunting Club: Nelson Co. KY USMC - Naval Security Group
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#1764915 - 02/03/10 05:09 PM
Re: LBL- TN or KY which side is better?
[Re: nate17]
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Wes Parrish
16 Point
Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 16967
Loc: Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN
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So my question is, have you seen lbl's harvest numbers or are you just guessing? I enjoy studying the harvest numbers, but they are just a part, and progressively a less significant part, of my opinion. (Yes, I have and have seen the harvest numbers.)
Let's say the KY side of LBL had one weekend of hunting, while the TN side had two weekends of hunting (with same number of hunters per sq. mile both TN & KY per hunt). The harvest data may show more bucks of any particular class are "harvested" on the TN side, but as a hunter, on which side would YOU have the greater opportunity per hour of hunting?
As hunters have become and are becoming more "selective", harvest data is becoming less reliable in terms of its relationship to the actual deer numbers. This is even further complicated by my OPINION that the hunters on the TN side of LBL are generally more accomplished and experienced deer hunters than the hunters on the KY side of LBL.
By the way, I've often found a farmer's observations far more valuable than ANY "harvest data". Harvest data tells what was killed, not what's still walking around.
Which side is better for quality bucks TN or KY? That answer may depend more on how YOU personally define a "quality" buck. I'm personally more interested a quality hunt.
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#1764942 - 02/03/10 05:33 PM
Re: LBL- TN or KY which side is better?
[Re: Wes Parrish]
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nate17
8 Point
Registered: 08/06/09
Posts: 1154
Loc: Illinois
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So my question is, have you seen lbl's harvest numbers or are you just guessing? I enjoy studying the harvest numbers, but they are just a part, and progressively a less significant part, of my opinion. (Yes, I have and have seen the harvest numbers.) Let's say the KY side of LBL had one weekend of hunting, while the TN side had two weekends of hunting (with same number of hunters per sq. mile both TN & KY per hunt). The harvest data may show more bucks of any particular class are "harvested" on the TN side, but as a hunter, on which side would YOU have the greater opportunity per hour of hunting? As hunters have become and are becoming more "selective", harvest data is becoming less reliable in terms of its relationship to the actual deer numbers. This is even further complicated by my OPINION that the hunters on the TN side of LBL are generally more accomplished and experienced deer hunters than the hunters on the KY side of LBL. By the way, I've often found a farmer's observations far more valuable than ANY "harvest data".Harvest data tells what was killed, not what's still walking around.
Im gonna have to have a friendly dissagreement with you here Wes.
So what are the numbers for this last year since you've seen them?
Im not in any way stating that old farmer joe that seen a 12 point buck is not handy by any means, but what does this tell you about your age structure.
Harvest data may not be the most reliable, but what other options you got? I would think that it is probably way more of a reliable method than what someone seen.
I would agree that hunters in general are becoming more selective, but these guys dont come to lbl for a 2 day gun hunt worrying about leaving deer for next year. They wanna fill a tag.
Edited by nate17 (02/03/10 05:45 PM)
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#1764959 - 02/03/10 05:44 PM
Re: LBL- TN or KY which side is better?
[Re: nate17]
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Wes Parrish
16 Point
Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 16967
Loc: Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN
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The 2009 unoffical numbers for the KY side of LBL are 63 male deer and 53 female deer = 116 Total Deer Harvested
The 2009 unoffical numbers for the TN side of LBL are 281 male deer and 98 female deer = 379 Total Deer Harvested
Keep in mind that this soon after the 2009 season has ended, all the above are subject to significant revision, and I'm particularly suspicious about the KY numbers being so much lower than the TN numbers.
Now, you tell me, what does this harvest data tell you about the age of what's left walking around on LBL? (It tells me less than what my farming friends can tell me in about 5 minutes of conversation.)
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#1764962 - 02/03/10 05:46 PM
Re: LBL- TN or KY which side is better?
[Re: Wes Parrish]
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nate17
8 Point
Registered: 08/06/09
Posts: 1154
Loc: Illinois
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Do you have any ages of those deer, because after all, we are talking about big bucks here.
Edited by nate17 (02/03/10 05:47 PM)
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#1764969 - 02/03/10 05:49 PM
Re: LBL- TN or KY which side is better?
[Re: nate17]
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nate17
8 Point
Registered: 08/06/09
Posts: 1154
Loc: Illinois
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why does twra collect age data if its so worthless?
Edited by nate17 (02/03/10 05:49 PM)
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#1764972 - 02/03/10 05:49 PM
Re: LBL- TN or KY which side is better?
[Re: nate17]
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Wes Parrish
16 Point
Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 16967
Loc: Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN
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Do you have any ages of those deer? As a matter of fact, I do (some of them). All of these deer were not aged. It looks like more 2 1/2-yr-old bucks were killed on the TN side.
Again, with or without, what does it tell us about the ages of the deer walking around on the KY side vs. the ages of the deer walking around on the TN side?
why does twra collect age data if its so worthless? Because it's not "worthless" --- it is in fact very valuable data.
But raw harvest data itself, has limited value in the absence of so many other factors. In the case of the KY side vs. the TN side of LBL, there's much more to compare than just the harvest data, such as more gun hunting having been the tradition on the TN side. Then when we compare other WMA's to the LBL WMA, a huge issue is how many collective hunter hours it took per deer harvest. Some other WMA's may kill 1/2 as many deer, but with 1/4 as many hunters; other WMA's may kill twice as many deer, but with four times as many hunters.
Bottom line still remains that harvest data tells us what was legally killed, not what is still walking around.
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#1765025 - 02/03/10 06:08 PM
Re: LBL- TN or KY which side is better?
[Re: Wes Parrish]
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Wes Parrish
16 Point
Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 16967
Loc: Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN
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By the way, the Oak Ridge WMA is less than half the size of the TN portion of LBL, yet its 2009 deer harvest was 359. Then there were 386 deer killed on the AEDC WMA in 2009, another WMA that's much smaller in size than the TN portion of LBL. Then there were 479 deer killed on the Cherokee National Forest WMA ---- a WMA many times the size of LBL.
All of these numbers are unofficial, and will probably change as some more paper tags get counted.
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