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#1756728 - 01/31/10 11:18 AM Re: Why do some people want a 1 or 2 buck limit? [Re: Bertman]
@fulldraw
8 Point


Registered: 09/29/08
Posts: 1161
Loc: Clarksville

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Personally, you TN hunters that want a 1 buck limit, you really don't want this. I've hunted KY all my life, I'm 28 now. I am a trophy hunter. A 1 buck limit has made me one and I love being one.

Some seasons I kill a trophy buck. Others I don't kill a buck. The years that I've killed my 1 buck, I wished that I could kill another one. Knowing that my buck season is over early in the year sucks! Yes, I can shoot does and I do, but when you have another trophy buck under you and you can't shoot, you will be wishing for a higher limit.

I wished I had a place to hunt in TN just so I can have another chance at a trophy. This is the reason I hunt at Fort Campbell. Just remember, a 1 buck limit is not the reason KY has big bucks. Iowa has a 3 buck limit and they have bigger bucks than KY. If you want bigger bucks, pass on the younger ones.

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#1756736 - 01/31/10 11:20 AM Re: Why do some people want a 1 or 2 buck limit? [Re: @fulldraw]
DUCK37101
"Link" Police
16 Point


Registered: 08/29/05
Posts: 18867
Loc: McEwen, TN.

Offline
Personal management decisions will go a long way IMO.
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#1756737 - 01/31/10 11:20 AM Re: Why do some people want a 1 or 2 buck limit? [Re: Bertman]
Bottom Hunter
16 Point


Registered: 12/29/06
Posts: 15480
Loc: Hatchie Bottoms

Offline
Nothing more than letting few grow another year...

kill a doe for the meat and let the little bucks walk.....

I grow tired of watching does every day and really enjoy seeing lots of bucks, small or not.

If I want meat, I shoot does. If I see a NICE buck, I may shoot or I may not. It depends on whether or not I will mount the deer or if the deer can win me a free membership......

Shooting a small buck to me is like doing something repetitive...much like brushing my teeth or driving a vehicle...it doesn't give me much of a thrill and it doesn't take much skill..IMO.

Now, if I can be so lucky as to hunt a place where I can kill two or three 130-150 class bucks every season, then I would.....

I don't think my wife would appreciate the taxidermist bill, though...

BH
_________________________
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Walk away; the battle they are fighting is not with you, but with themselves.

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#1756774 - 01/31/10 11:41 AM Re: Why do some people want a 1 or 2 buck limit? [Re: Bottom Hunter]
gator-n-buck
16 Point


Registered: 10/22/08
Posts: 14908
Loc: Knox, TN / Palatka, FL

Offline
3 Buck limit is fine with me since most hunters in TN never tag out their limit... So in the end... it really doesn't matter... \:\)
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#1756797 - 01/31/10 11:58 AM Re: Why do some people want a 1 or 2 buck limit? [Re: Beekeeper]
megalomaniac
10 Point


Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 4887
Loc: Mississippi

Offline
 Originally Posted By: Beekeeper
...
1. In areas with a high population of deer, how many does are not bred each year? ...

if you can convince me and others that there is a valid biological reason that will improve the health of the total herd we may get on your side.

Remember that a Bucks primary purpose is to breed does, not to become a decoration in someone’s home.


Your assume that fawn recruitment alone is an indicator of an adequate herd density and herd health, which is just a part of the picture. We could remove EVERY SINGLE buck in the state, and we'd still have does bred (from button bucks). We could remove EVERY BUCK 2.5 yrs old and older, and still run a recruitment rate of above 80%.

For BIOLOGICAL health, however (not just maintaining or increasing the deer population), the bulk of breeding needs to be done by older deer, just the way nature intended. When yearling bucks participate in the rut, many never recover for the rest of thier lives from the undue stresses the rut places on them at such a young age.

If you've ever hunted a property with an excellent age struture, you will notice that the yearling bucks hardly chase does at all. The older bucks (whether it's through phermones, or simply whipping the butts of the younger bucks) become so dominant, that the younger bucks would rather eat than attempt to breed. That extra year of growth gained from not participating in the rut as a 1.5 yr old allows them to be much healthier.

So there you have it... that is the valid biological reason for improving age structure. Now would a 1 or 2 buck limit do that? Absolutely. But it might not be enough to make a real or even statistical difference statewide.

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#1757085 - 01/31/10 01:59 PM Re: Why do some people want a 1 or 2 buck limit? [Re: TN RDG RNR]
redblood
16 Point


Registered: 01/22/06
Posts: 10147
Loc: Lewisburg

Offline
The advantages of 1 or 2 buck limit are many but the biggest advantage in my opinion is that it makes the hunter much more selective. In ky and many other states, you get one buck. These hunters have to be evaluate there decision to pull the trigger much more carefully knowing that once they pull the trigger, they are done. Therefore a lot MORE 2.5 and 3.5 year old deer get a pass, which means more fully mature deer are in the woods next year and more is better.2nd- it gets hunters out of the woods faster so the woods are less crowded, safer with less pressure on deer.3rd- I really like big racks. We are headed to a lower buck limit IMO, it is just a question of how lond is TWRA going to hold out.
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#1757117 - 01/31/10 02:07 PM Re: Why do some people want a 1 or 2 buck limit? [Re: gator-n-buck]
Tree Tramp
8 Point


Registered: 07/22/09
Posts: 1560
Loc: Tennessee

Offline
 Originally Posted By: gator-n-buck
3 Buck limit is fine with me since most hunters in TN never tag out their limit... So in the end... it really doesn't matter... \:\)


I see this statement alot on here and it doesnt make ANY sense.

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#1757175 - 01/31/10 02:29 PM Re: Why do some people want a 1 or 2 buck limit? [Re: Tree Tramp]
Mike Belt
TnDeer Old Timer
16 Point


Registered: 03/26/99
Posts: 16929
Loc: Lakeland, Tn.

Offline
I've had the opportunity to take bucks every year and haven't killed one in 5 years. I'm waiting on the buck I want. I understand that everyone is not like this but it still seems to me that a move to a 2 buck limit is a fair move for all hunters. I think there are enough hunters out there that restrict their kills to older and bigger age class bucks and probably only get a crack at one a season. If they can forfeit taking bucks year in and year out that benefits those that aren't so selective and it has for years now. Turn about is fair play. Those that only want to shoot bucks shoot away. Take one any size. Take two if that's your cup of tea. It usually makes hunters a little more selective on that second buck though. The selective hunter allows more bucks to walk giving those that aren't a better chance to fill their tags. The non-selective hunters reap those benefits but by only being allowed to take 2 bucks they help to keep a few walking that might eventually benefit the more selective hunters. Seems like a fair move.

Edited by Mike Belt (01/31/10 02:29 PM)
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#1757188 - 01/31/10 02:37 PM Re: Why do some people want a 1 or 2 buck limit? [Re: @fulldraw]
Football Hunter
18 Point


Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 24550
Loc: Wilson Co/Perry Co

Offline
 Originally Posted By: mstanton1181
Personally, you TN hunters that want a 1 buck limit, you really don't want this. I've hunted KY all my life, I'm 28 now. I am a trophy hunter. A 1 buck limit has made me one and I love being one.

Some seasons I kill a trophy buck. Others I don't kill a buck. The years that I've killed my 1 buck, I wished that I could kill another one. Knowing that my buck season is over early in the year sucks! Yes, I can shoot does and I do, but when you have another trophy buck under you and you can't shoot, you will be wishing for a higher limit.

I wished I had a place to hunt in TN just so I can have another chance at a trophy. This is the reason I hunt at Fort Campbell. Just remember, a 1 buck limit is not the reason KY has big bucks. Iowa has a 3 buck limit and they have bigger bucks than KY. If you want bigger bucks, pass on the younger ones.
Indiana has lots of public land just over the border,cheap liscense too
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#1757320 - 01/31/10 03:44 PM Re: Why do some people want a 1 or 2 buck limit? [Re: megalomaniac]
Beekeeper
Good ol' Boys "Team Buckcreek"
16 Point


Registered: 08/26/09
Posts: 10933
Loc: McMinn Co. Tennessee

Offline
 Originally Posted By: Mike Belt
I've had the opportunity to take bucks every year and haven't killed one in 5 years. I'm waiting on the buck I want. I understand that everyone is not like this but it still seems to me that a move to a 2 buck limit is a fair move for all hunters. I think there are enough hunters out there that restrict their kills to older and bigger age class bucks and probably only get a crack at one a season. If they can forfeit taking bucks year in and year out that benefits those that aren't so selective and it has for years now. Turn about is fair play. Those that only want to shoot bucks shoot away. Take one any size. Take two if that's your cup of tea. It usually makes hunters a little more selective on that second buck though. The selective hunter allows more bucks to walk giving those that aren't a better chance to fill their tags. The non-selective hunters reap those benefits but by only being allowed to take 2 bucks they help to keep a few walking that might eventually benefit the more selective hunters. Seems like a fair move.
What is the biological benifit to the deer herd? There is no doubt that there will be a benifit to hunters, especially those that can't find trophy animals now.
 Originally Posted By: megalomaniac

Your assume that fawn recruitment alone is an indicator of an adequate herd density and herd health, which is just a part of the picture. We could remove EVERY SINGLE buck in the state, and we'd still have does bred (from button bucks). We could remove EVERY BUCK 2.5 yrs old and older, and still run a recruitment rate of above 80%.

For BIOLOGICAL health, however (not just maintaining or increasing the deer population), the bulk of breeding needs to be done by older deer, just the way nature intended. When yearling bucks participate in the rut, many never recover for the rest of thier lives from the undue stresses the rut places on them at such a young age.

If you've ever hunted a property with an excellent age struture, you will notice that the yearling bucks hardly chase does at all. The older bucks (whether it's through phermones, or simply whipping the butts of the younger bucks) become so dominant, that the younger bucks would rather eat than attempt to breed. That extra year of growth gained from not participating in the rut as a 1.5 yr old allows them to be much healthier.

So there you have it... that is the valid biological reason for improving age structure. Now would a 1 or 2 buck limit do that? Absolutely. But it might not be enough to make a real or even statistical difference statewide.
Are you trying to say that a 1.5 year old buck has a different genetic structure than he would have at an older age. Most geneticists agree that there is some break down in the genitics as animals get older but I have never seen where their genetic contribution improves with age. Your argument still dosen't show a biological reason for a lower limit. The age structure of the herd is good the way things are now. If you only see these animals as trophys not as a natural resource then a lower limit is desireable.
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