#1743927 - 01/24/10 05:13 PM
Age Data?
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8 POINTS OR BETTER
10 Point
Registered: 08/15/07
Posts: 3869
Loc: Hardin, Co.
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Does Tennessee's age data include DMAP and WMA data?
_________________________
" Some localities are willing to work for their sport, and have plenty. Others are willing merely to take what comes easy, and have little or none." - Aldo Leopold
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#1744009 - 01/24/10 05:43 PM
Re: Age Data?
[Re: 8 POINTS OR BETTER]
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Football Hunter
18 Point
Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 24550
Loc: Wilson Co/Perry Co
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I believe so.
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The best day to plant a tree,IS TODAY!
You wont know,if you dont go!
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#1744578 - 01/24/10 09:49 PM
Re: Age Data?
[Re: ]
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RKenney
10 Point
Registered: 03/15/08
Posts: 3633
Loc: Maury Co.
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Most of the data is gathered on opening day of rifle season from
a few selected checking stations, from what I understand. I often
wonder how accurate the data is, because many "roaming" 1.5 bucks
are killed on opening day.
After opening day, the check out person at the local 7-11 can't
age a deer. Even with today's technology, the computer check in
system can't tell either.
I have heard the equation before about opening day data, but I
wonder how accurate it is with the.....roaming baby buck factor
on opening day.
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#1744602 - 01/24/10 10:16 PM
Re: Age Data?
[Re: RKenney]
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Setterman
8 Point
Registered: 12/31/09
Posts: 1783
Loc: Knoxville, TN
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I often
wonder how accurate the data is
Extremely accurate, from start to finish. As expected there are a few mistakes, but some are aged younger and some are aged older. It comes out as a wash.
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#1744645 - 01/24/10 11:12 PM
Re: Age Data?
[Re: Setterman]
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RKenney
10 Point
Registered: 03/15/08
Posts: 3633
Loc: Maury Co.
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Setterman,
I wonder why you only quoted a very small portion of my
statement. Whether anyone believes it or not, certain kinds of
data collections, do not tell the whole story. That is true in
other areas too. Not just deer age stats.
I am not a scientist or biologist by any means, but sometimes
"real life", obvious fact, can be detected by a laymen like me.
Ever heard of a political survey that was considered true "data".
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#1744705 - 01/25/10 06:01 AM
Re: Age Data?
[Re: RKenney]
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Setterman
8 Point
Registered: 12/31/09
Posts: 1783
Loc: Knoxville, TN
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You responded to a question about our age data in this state. I was stating that the age data itself is extremely accurate.
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#1744722 - 01/25/10 06:37 AM
Re: Age Data?
[Re: RKenney]
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BigWes50
10 Point
Registered: 03/04/07
Posts: 3207
Loc: Chattanooga, TN
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Most of the data is gathered on opening day of rifle season from
a few selected checking stations, from what I understand. I often
wonder how accurate the data is, because many "roaming" 1.5 bucks
are killed on opening day.
After opening day, the check out person at the local 7-11 can't
age a deer. Even with today's technology, the computer check in
system can't tell either.
I have heard the equation before about opening day data, but I
wonder how accurate it is with the.....roaming baby buck factor
on opening day.
I agree, its just hard to beleive 1 weekend of aging at only a few check stations would be enough to properly give an accurate overall prediction!
_________________________
Just as the deer can suddenly materialize in the woods, "Therefore you also must be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect" (Matthew 24:44)
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#1744740 - 01/25/10 07:03 AM
Re: Age Data?
[Re: BigWes50]
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BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical
Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 59548
Loc: Nashville, TN
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BGG is the person to answer that.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan
"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James
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#1744743 - 01/25/10 07:09 AM
Re: Age Data?
[Re: BigWes50]
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Setterman
8 Point
Registered: 12/31/09
Posts: 1783
Loc: Knoxville, TN
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Most of the data is gathered on opening day of rifle season from
a few selected checking stations, from what I understand. I often
wonder how accurate the data is, because many "roaming" 1.5 bucks
are killed on opening day.
After opening day, the check out person at the local 7-11 can't
age a deer. Even with today's technology, the computer check in
system can't tell either.
I have heard the equation before about opening day data, but I
wonder how accurate it is with the.....roaming baby buck factor
on opening day. I agree, its just hard to beleive 1 weekend of aging at only a few check stations would be enough to properly give an accurate overall prediction!
It happens more then just one weekend here, aging was going on randomly throughout the whole season and there was alot going on during ML and rifle. Just because you don't see a TWRA person at the processor doesn't mean that aging isn't going on at other times.
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#1744766 - 01/25/10 07:34 AM
Re: Age Data?
[Re: Setterman]
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BigGameGuy
TWRA Biologist
12 Point
Registered: 05/14/04
Posts: 6353
Loc: Nashville
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When we publish our statewide data, only check station data is used. We do collect data from WMAs and check stations but it is not included in our statewide reports (although that may be changing shortly).
RKenney -
You bring up a question many have considered in the past, whether the opening day data collection skews the data. Although I haven't personally looked at our data, other biologists have and what they have all concluded it that there is no significant skew collecting it on the high harvest weekends. If anything, we do see just a few more yearling bucks than what is normally killed throughout the season simply due to the weekend warrior affect. In other words, our true harvested age data if it were collected on every animal would probably be a few percentage points older than what we report.
_________________________
If given the choice between education and regulation, I'll choose education every time.
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#1744774 - 01/25/10 07:46 AM
Re: Age Data?
[Re: BigGameGuy]
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8 POINTS OR BETTER
10 Point
Registered: 08/15/07
Posts: 3869
Loc: Hardin, Co.
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We do collect data from WMAs and check stations but it is not included in our statewide reports
Did you mean DMAP instead of check stations in the above quote?
_________________________
" Some localities are willing to work for their sport, and have plenty. Others are willing merely to take what comes easy, and have little or none." - Aldo Leopold
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#1744786 - 01/25/10 08:00 AM
Re: Age Data?
[Re: 8 POINTS OR BETTER]
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BigGameGuy
TWRA Biologist
12 Point
Registered: 05/14/04
Posts: 6353
Loc: Nashville
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Yes...thanks!
_________________________
If given the choice between education and regulation, I'll choose education every time.
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#1744789 - 01/25/10 08:03 AM
Re: Age Data?
[Re: BigGameGuy]
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8 POINTS OR BETTER
10 Point
Registered: 08/15/07
Posts: 3869
Loc: Hardin, Co.
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How does our DMAP age data look? Can you post it?
_________________________
" Some localities are willing to work for their sport, and have plenty. Others are willing merely to take what comes easy, and have little or none." - Aldo Leopold
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#1744872 - 01/25/10 08:52 AM
Re: Age Data?
[Re: 8 POINTS OR BETTER]
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BigGameGuy
TWRA Biologist
12 Point
Registered: 05/14/04
Posts: 6353
Loc: Nashville
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I don't have it available right now since I am not in the office but our DMAP data is scant compared to other states. If I'm not mistaken, Mississippi has hundreds if not thousands of properties enrolled in their DMAP program while TN had I believe eight properties in their hey dey. The main benefit of the DMAP program is to be able to harvest does above and beyond the normal parameters of the statewide season. With the creation of Unit L ever increasing doe opportunities, there is no need for enrollment in most areas.
(FYI - Before anyone asks, the TN criteria for DMAP is 1,000 contiguous acres, at least one year of current biological data collection, a management plan submitted by a certified biologist, and an application fee dependant upon who devised the management plan.)
_________________________
If given the choice between education and regulation, I'll choose education every time.
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#1744914 - 01/25/10 09:20 AM
Re: Age Data?
[Re: RKenney]
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BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical
Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 59548
Loc: Nashville, TN
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Most of the data is gathered on opening day of rifle season from
a few selected checking stations, from what I understand. I often
wonder how accurate the data is, because many "roaming" 1.5 bucks
are killed on opening day.
I have looked as closely at the data as the data will permit (available information), and as BGG said, if there is any bias in the data due to the data being collected on opening weekend of MZ and gun seasons, it is slightly towards the young side.
Although for individual bucks antler points is a poor judge of age, when looking at a large data set of buck antler point data, more points suggests older age. I took a look over a several year period at the average number of points of bucks harvested on those two opening weekends (when the TWRA collects their biological data from harvested deer) compared to all other periods of the hunting season. Those two weekends record slightly lower average antler points of harvested bucks than the rest of the season hence their may be a slight bias towards younger bucks in the TWRA's buck age data.
So consider the TWRA's reported harvested buck age structure a minimum. The percentage of older bucks in the total annual harvest is probably higher than indicated.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan
"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James
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#1745092 - 01/25/10 11:16 AM
Re: Age Data?
[Re: BSK]
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Winchester
Non-Typical
Registered: 12/05/03
Posts: 25238
Loc: TN
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The two weekends that the data is collected Opening MZ and opening Rifle are two of the best weekends on the Calendar to kill a good buck somewhere in the state. I would think more older age class bucks are killed on these weekends for 2 reasons, more hunters in the woods and timing with the rut.
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#1745835 - 01/25/10 07:20 PM
Re: Age Data?
[Re: Winchester]
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BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical
Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 59548
Loc: Nashville, TN
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The two weekends that the data is collected Opening MZ and opening Rifle are two of the best weekends on the Calendar to kill a good buck somewhere in the state. I would think more older age class bucks are killed on these weekends for 2 reasons, more hunters in the woods and timing with the rut.
Again, using average antler points of harvest bucks, those two weekends show the lowest numbers of the year, suggesting the youngest buck kill. I suspect because those two weekends see the highest participation of "non-trophy" buck hunters (those most likely to shoot young bucks).
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan
"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James
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