#1740081 - 01/22/10 08:15 AM
Re: CWD in Virginia
[Re: Winchester]
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BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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Its getting scary close, im sure TWRA is monitoring the situation closely. Not much that can be done however, Mother Nature will have her way.
Absolutely.
Some were holding out hope that because CWD had not been found in the Southeast that potentially the Southeastern sub-species of whitetail had some natural immunity to it. But that hope is fading fast.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan
"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James
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#1740165 - 01/22/10 08:56 AM
Re: CWD in Virginia
[Re: TLRanger]
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megalomaniac
10 Point
Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 4887
Loc: Mississippi
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There is no current scientific evidence that CWD has ever infected humans.
That is the scariest statement in this thread...
Don't get me wrong... hunters shouldn't panic about CWD, but to assume it isn't transmissible to humans is like the ostrich sticking his head in the sand.
All the prions are remarkably similar... and we KNOW of 2 in humans (Jacob-Crutzfield and BSE (mad-cow)); additionally, there were 3 hunters with Jacob-Crutzfield up north than potentially contracted it from deer. Tracking this disease in humans is a bugger, though... since most won't show any symptoms for 10-20 years AFTER contracting the disease!
What should hunters do then?
I usually am very liberal about the amount of meat I'm willing to sacrifice off the carcass. For example, if my bullet or fragments contact the spine, I'll leave an additional 3-4" of backstraps for the coyotes. On high shoulder shots, I'll leave both alone if I know the bullet hit the lower cervical spine or upper thoracic spine. The only time my knife will touch the spinal tissues is when I'm removing the head, and that's AFTER I've pulled all the meat off the carcass. And after that, the knife is sterilized in bleach (which is probably effective).
I feed my kids venison without reservation, but again, I'm careful with my processing.
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#1740281 - 01/22/10 09:52 AM
Re: CWD in Virginia
[Re: megalomaniac]
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bowriter
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Registered: 08/31/02
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Loc: Lebanon,TN USA
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There is no current scientific evidence that CWD has ever infected humans.
That is the scariest statement in this thread... Don't get me wrong... hunters shouldn't panic about CWD, but to assume it isn't transmissible to humans is like the ostrich sticking his head in the sand. All the prions are remarkably similar... and we KNOW of 2 in humans (Jacob-Crutzfield and BSE (mad-cow)); additionally, there were 3 hunters with Jacob-Crutzfield up north than potentially contracted it from deer. Tracking this disease in humans is a bugger, though... since most won't show any symptoms for 10-20 years AFTER contracting the disease! What should hunters do then? I usually am very liberal about the amount of meat I'm willing to sacrifice off the carcass. For example, if my bullet or fragments contact the spine, I'll leave an additional 3-4" of backstraps for the coyotes. On high shoulder shots, I'll leave both alone if I know the bullet hit the lower cervical spine or upper thoracic spine. The only time my knife will touch the spinal tissues is when I'm removing the head, and that's AFTER I've pulled all the meat off the carcass. And after that, the knife is sterilized in bleach (which is probably effective). I feed my kids venison without reservation, but again, I'm careful with my processing.
However that statement is true. There is no evidence it can jump a species barrier. It is not like mad cow or CJ in that aspect as far as we know today. That, however is not to say, at some point, it won't.
Now there are some of us who believe this disease has been in cervids everywhere for decades, maybe even centuries. I am among that group. I have no doubt we have had it TN for many years.
But here, as it is many areas, an animal dies and within days it is consumed. So unless it is a penned animal, we never know it. I personally, watched with my own eyes as a sick animal in apenned herd was burned. I do not know what it died of. They symptoms could have been anything. But that animal was never examinded. And no, I will not say where it was or who owned it.
But I was a student the University of WY when Elizabeth discovered it. It was, at that time, in her opinion, no big deal and had probably been in the elk in the wild all along. Her feeling, back then was that it was present in all cervids. That is now appearing to be true.
This I know for a fact. The panic is far worse than the disease.
Now I would not eat any animimal that obviously diseased. But be know today, a cervid may have CWD for at least five years before it shows any manifestation. So in my opinion, we probably have all eaten deer with CWD.
Think about it. How long have we even been testing for it? Now think about the sample size. How in he11 would we know if we have it.
I'm not an icthyologist, can't even spell it. But there is a disease in trout called wirling disease. Been around as long as there have been trout. Look it up. Dr. E felt it was a similar disease to CWD. Could it be related prion borne diseases are in all animals? We know monkeys have it.
Just something to think about.
_________________________
Constipation has ruined many a good day. Not as many as stupidity, though.
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#1740392 - 01/22/10 10:58 AM
Re: CWD in Virginia
[Re: megalomaniac]
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BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 59555
Loc: Nashville, TN
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There is no current scientific evidence that CWD has ever infected humans.
That is the scariest statement in this thread... Don't get me wrong... hunters shouldn't panic about CWD, but to assume it isn't transmissible to humans is like the ostrich sticking his head in the sand. All the prions are remarkably similar... and we KNOW of 2 in humans (Jacob-Crutzfield and BSE (mad-cow)); additionally, there were 3 hunters with Jacob-Crutzfield up north than potentially contracted it from deer. Tracking this disease in humans is a bugger, though...
Actually, tracking it in humans wouldn't be bugger if it had ever occurred. The prions between the different species variations are not all that similar. In fact, Crutzfeld-Jacob's Disease (CJD) is not a contagious form of the disease (unless you're a canible). It is a naturally occurring genetic mutation that strikes only 1 in 1 million people. The form of CJD that is contracted by eating cattle infected with Mad Cow Disease (MCD) is called CJDv, with the small "v" standing for "variant." It can easily be identified geneticaly because the prion comes from the cattle form of the disease and is different than the naturally occurring form. The hunters in WI that have CJD have the naturally occurring form. The U.S. population is around 300 million and that about how many known cases of naturally occurring CJD there are--around 300.
And even when you consider the contagious form of Mad Cow Disease, tens of millions of people in Europe ate infected beef yet only around 215 people caught the disease. It is not highly contagious at all. The chances of contracting CJDv from eating infected beef is astronomically low.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan
"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James
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#1740687 - 01/22/10 02:35 PM
Re: CWD in Virginia
[Re: BSK]
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Double-D-Team
10 Point
Registered: 12/18/02
Posts: 3483
Loc: God's Country
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Great info....Good comments from all....thanks...
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THE RICHEST VALUES OF WILDERNESS LIE NOT IN THE DAYS OF DANIEL BOONE NOR EVEN IN THE PRESENT. BUT IN THE FUTURE--LEOPOLD
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#1740696 - 01/22/10 02:40 PM
Re: CWD in Virginia
[Re: Double-D-Team]
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vabuckbuster
8 Point
Registered: 10/01/08
Posts: 2077
Loc: Virginia
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That is some good info
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We cannot solve our problems with the same level of thinking that created them - Albert Einstein
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#1740745 - 01/22/10 03:14 PM
Re: CWD in Virginia
[Re: vabuckbuster]
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megalomaniac
10 Point
Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 4887
Loc: Mississippi
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bowriter or BSK,
would you knowingly eat a CWD infected deer? 
Again, I don't think there is need for panic, but realistically we don't know enough about the prion and how transmissable/ infective it is.
It is therefore prudent to use 'universal precautions' when handling cervids, especially neural tissues.
oh, and bowriter, I know a little about whirling disease... I wonder if it could be part of the problem with the wintering bald eagles contracting a prion disease in Arkansas... they are dropping like flies there.
Any way you look at it, it's a sucky way to go... they all turn your brain into swiss cheese.
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#1740784 - 01/22/10 03:31 PM
Re: CWD in Virginia
[Re: megalomaniac]
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BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical
Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 59555
Loc: Nashville, TN
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bowriter or BSK, would you knowingly eat a CWD infected deer?
Nope. But again, I wouldn't be too concerned about getting CWD from eating a deer. VERY few people ever got Mad Cow Disease from eating diseased meat and tens of millions of people ate contaminated meat.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan
"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James
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#1742185 - 01/23/10 02:41 PM
Re: CWD in Virginia
[Re: BSK]
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bowriter
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Registered: 08/31/02
Posts: 40306
Loc: Lebanon,TN USA
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No I would not. But I bet I have and didn't know it. I would not eat any deer I knew was diseased no matter what the disease. But I would probably shoot it. And have.
I would guess that any poster on this site who has killed and eaten several deer has eaten diseased meat. Keep in mind, we are not just talking about deer. Include rabbits and squirrels etc.
_________________________
Constipation has ruined many a good day. Not as many as stupidity, though.
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