. . . . . . I'm tired of putting in on some of these hunts I've been on.

Big Wes, Not to hijack your thread but do you or anyone else know of anyone who has ever gotten drawn first time around? It seems like the preference points are a must in order to hunt there. Is that the case?

That be the sentiment of many, who believe many of the TWRA-managed WMA's are managing mainly for target shooters instead of hunters, i.e. the targets mainly being young bucks, most of which cannot live to the age of 3 1/2 due to the high yearling and 2 1/2-yr-old buck harvest.

I'll backtrack a bit and say the TWRA-managed WMA's overall may have offered the best overall quality deer hunting in 2009 there's ever been --- so this is not meant to be an "attack" on TWRA at all --- just one man's opinion who's been observing it for a long time.

I'd also ask how much of the WMA statewide improvement has come from the many hunters who just stopped much of their WMA hunting as they apply exclusively for President's Island? I know many hunters (myself included) who use to apply and be drawn for one or two quota WMA deer hunts annually ---- but have applied only for PI now for nearly a decade, forfeiting all those annual quota hunts we went on prior to PI becoming a WMA.

So why can't there be a little more opportunity offered that is somewhat akin to the President's Island experience? Just one more little WMA managed similarly to PI could cut that 8-yr wait time down to 4 years by moving many in the line over to a different WMA.

Wes, such a very true statement. I use to always go to these hunts that you are refering too. I've been to numerous WMA hunts and finally decided I would like to start applying for PI after seeing the kill pics from this years hunt. I know there has to be other WMAs that could manage a hunt like the PI hunt.

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WesParrish: The orginal old Wes, not to be confused with any other Wes

so this "drawing" is not really a true random drawing.

It is a true random drawing.
However, those who were not drawn in the prior year will be drawn (randomly) prior to those who were drawn in the prior year.

And in the case of President's Island, since there are thousands of hunters applying for a handful of permits, you can only expect to be "randomly" drawn if you forfeit being drawn for all other TWRA-managed WMA quota deer hunts, and then, you can expect to be drawn (for the buck hunt) only once or twice in your lifetime.

Each year you are NOT drawn for a quota deer hunt, you get a "preference point" in the next year's drawning. Preference points are cumulative, and it currently takes several years of preference point build-up to have any chance of being drawn.

IMO, the preference point system is the fairest way to conduct these random drawings.

All the more reason TWRA should manage some other WMA's similarly to PI. Keep in mind PI is a relatively small WMA, and the biggest difference (sorry, it's not the soil) is TWRA LIMITS hunting pressure until the rut is in full swing, and then is greatly protecting yearling bucks ---- especially when one considers there is only 3 days of buck hunting annually.

Wouldn't you like to hunt a place that only receives 3 days of annual hunting, and has, and is maintaining an advanced buck age structure? This PI experience is akin to how it would be if the National Park Service opened up Cades Cove for a single weekend of hunting annually on the last weekend in November, but only a handful of hunters would be drawn for a permit.

More than any other factor, it's the relative LACK of hunting that makes the PI annual hunt so good.

ot abit but....From going to cades cove my whole life and looking at the harvest pics from PI, I am just not convinced the bucks in the cove has near the overall average inches on thier heads that the island does...maybe thru herd reduction/managment in the proper direction that could be improved..but in the natural setting I just don't see it...but thats jmo...

When one puts in for the PI hunt, which unit would one recommend and why?

I was talking about harvest success on mature bucks more than at which place a 5 1/2-yr-old buck would normally "average" the largest antlers.

Cades Cove has essentially no agricultural crops and relatively poor soil compared to PI ---- but I've seen larger antlered mature bucks roaming in Cades Cover than have yet to be legally killed since PI became a WMA. "So what" if the average mature buck in Cades Cove averaged 125 while it might be more like 140 on PI? Wouldn't the opportunity to take what most consider a "wall-hanger" still be better than other traditionally managed WMAs?

I just used Cades Cove for comparison because the bucks there already have an advanced age structure and most people are familiar with it. Put the PI regs (don't even need those 9-pt antler restrictions) on many of the WMA's, and a similar hunting experience could be produced in about 3 years. Doesn't even have to be the best soil, as the soil is not what's making those mature bucks move in daylight at PI.

When compared to a hunted population, Cades cove does have an above average number of bucks with head gear that anybody would be proud to hang on a wall. Altho there usually seems to be an exceptional buck or two that seem to emerge there every several years or so, there never have been too many of what most hunters would just awe at at any one time...

Where and when does one apply for th PI hunt?

Im with Wes on the point of managing a few other WMA's for Trophy hunting, which is what is going on at PI. I know this isnt what everybody wants and I undertstand that, but taking say 5 more small WMA's across the state, and making them true Trophy areas would take a lot of the pressure off PI, and make a lot more hunters happy with an increased chance in getting to hunt an area where all yearlings and most 2 1/2's are off limits.

And again, what makes the PI WMA have such a high success ratio on the actual harvest of 3 1/2-yr-old and older bucks is....
lack of hunting,

But do something like that on a single WMA the size of Catoosa, and something akin to the PI experience, with the stroke of pen, would be provided to about 10 times more TN hunters.

I agree completely, lets take say ORWMA and close it to hunting for just 2 seasons. Now on the 3'rd season we will have just one 3 day hunt, and no scouting day either. When the hunters hit the woods they will be carrying guns and bows according to which area you draw. I can guarantee there would be quite a few super bucks killed, probably more % wise than there are at PI because it would not be Archery only.

Some of my best hunts have been on the TN WMA's, and I have never been to PI.

Instead of applying for PI every year and getting rejected, I enjoy applying and getting DRAWN for 2 hunts every other year. At least that is my average right now.

One day, I might change my mind and start my long wait for PI, but for now, I appreciate all the WMA's that I get my chance on... every other year!

. . . . . . . I don't want to see any more public land going to trophy regs.

Your right about one thing, Restricting anymore public land ain't for everybody.

Don't take this the wrong way but its kind of scary that so many of my opportunitys can be taken away so easily with the stroke of the pen ....

If somebody wants to wait 8 or 10 years to get drawn at PI let em have at it.... Thats there choice. My choice is not to....

Tndrbstr, likewise, I do see you your perspective, and totally believe that most of the public land should be "managed" for the hunting experiences that most of Tennessee hunters are wanting most.

But we are talking about public land, something that belongs to all of us, and all of us are not wanting the same hunting experience.

Currently, the acreage of President's Island accounts for maybe 1% of the TWRA-managed public lands?

There's certainly a lot more than 1% of Tennessee's hunters begging for a hunting experience geared more towards a QUALITY hunting experience rather than just the QUANTITY of days we can deer hunt annually. This is evidenced by the over a thousand TN hunters who are forfeiting all their quota hunt permits ongoing just for the opportunity to hunt President's Island a single weekend ONE TIME during the next 10 to 15 years.

My thought was simply that if a large percentage of Tennessee's hunters are preferring a better quality hunt over just another hunt, in all fairness, why not have a little more of our public lands offering this opportunity?

By the way, I am not a fan of the "trophy" regs on President's Island --- I think those antler restrictions suck. (By no means would I want the PI regs "rubber stamped" onto another WMA.) What I am a fan of is having some WMA's that simply just offer either-sex hunting (without antler restrictions), but with enough less hunting, that the deer herd is managed more as nature intended ---- with a good representation of 4 1/2 and older bucks that are actually moving around during daytime hours so we can see and harvest more of them while hunting. Not for everybody, maybe not for you, but there's a growing number who prefer quality over quantity.

Thats what i dont understand as i will ahve one point this year so i am in the 12,232. So how does that mean i will get drawn in 8 to 10 years?

Your thinking the samething I am that it seems more like 15 to 20 years if you do the math on it!

Because 11,000+ are going for WMA hunts other than PI.

What other WMA has a waiting list?

yuchi

and about wanting other wma's to have the same rules as PI. if one of the wma's chosen is one i have been hunting forever, i would be PISSED!! make new wma's with those rules but leave the established wma's alone.