#1734108 - 01/19/10 11:28 AM
Re: Once an 8pt always an 8pt?
[Re: westtntoms]
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bowriter
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Registered: 08/31/02
Posts: 40337
Loc: Lebanon,TN USA
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When the antlers are a sole consideration, you are selecting for one trait. That does not mean a cull.
If you walk into a pro football locker room, and cut every defensive, 300-pound lineman with a johnson shorter than 4" that is same as selecting by antler size.
That is only one criteria. That is why most hunters are terrible biologists or managers. If your goal is antlers (TDM) that is one thing. If your goal is a healthy deer herd, that is something else.
Now most of you can talk about maturity all you want. But except for Wes and BSK most of you are talking about antlers. You are associating antlers and age and nutrition. Now take take antlers out of the equation and see where this thread goes.
Right back it where it started 20 plus years ago.
So you want to kill a buck becuase he has small antlers? Then lets cut the all-pro lineman with the small danglie. It's obvious he can't play football.
Sharp stick for sale.
_________________________
Constipation has ruined many a good day. Not as many as stupidity, though.
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#1734176 - 01/19/10 12:21 PM
Re: Once an 8pt always an 8pt?
[Re: bowriter]
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Winchester
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Registered: 12/05/03
Posts: 25335
Loc: TN
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Now most of you can talk about maturity all you want. But except for Wes and BSK most of you are talking about antlers.
First off, what facts are you basing this statement on? Contrary to your belief, there are several on here who can age a deer on the hoof, and/or dead with his jawbone removed. You dont have to have a degree or be good buddies with you or anyone else here to have these skills.
BW, you are talking in circles here. I clearly stated that the only 'cull' in my eyes is a FULLY MATURE buck with a small rack. Once a buck becomes fully mature it doesnt matter what you call him or why you kill him, he's done all he is going to do, he's mature!
So you want to kill a buck becuase he has small antlers?
I dont ever want to kill a buck with small antlers, not on purpose, but if he's 6.5 and has either a 100 inch rack or a 150 inch rack, either way he needs to be killed if given the rare opportunity!
I think maybe you need to take a good long look at your pile of sharp sticks, and be careful to not paint with such a wide brush. Your assumptions are just that, and you know what that gets you??
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#1734298 - 01/19/10 01:18 PM
Re: Once an 8pt always an 8pt?
[Re: BSK]
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Setterman
8 Point
Registered: 12/31/09
Posts: 1783
Loc: Knoxville, TN
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As I said somewhere else here, the term cull buck is used when folks shoot a deer which they thought was bigger then it was in reality or they shoot one which is below the standards for whereever they are hunting. IMO there is no such thing as a "cull" buck. They are either mature or not, and that is all that matters.
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#1734320 - 01/19/10 01:39 PM
Re: Once an 8pt always an 8pt?
[Re: Setterman]
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BigWes50
10 Point
Registered: 03/04/07
Posts: 3207
Loc: Chattanooga, TN
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Great post and very interesting!
_________________________
Just as the deer can suddenly materialize in the woods, "Therefore you also must be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect" (Matthew 24:44)
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#1734356 - 01/19/10 02:04 PM
Re: Once an 8pt always an 8pt?
[Re: bowriter]
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DWM
8 Point
Registered: 12/08/06
Posts: 1766
Loc: TN
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When the antlers are a sole consideration, you are selecting for one trait. That does not mean a cull.
If you walk into a pro football locker room, and cut every defensive, 300-pound lineman with a johnson shorter than 4" that is same as selecting by antler size.
That is only one criteria. That is why most hunters are terrible biologists or managers. If your goal is antlers (TDM) that is one thing. If your goal is a healthy deer herd, that is something else.
Now most of you can talk about maturity all you want. But except for Wes and BSK most of you are talking about antlers. You are associating antlers and age and nutrition. Now take take antlers out of the equation and see where this thread goes.
So you want to kill a buck becuase he has small antlers? Then lets cut the all-pro lineman with the small danglie. It's obvious he can't play football.
Maybe someone else can explain what you are trying to say because it sounds like a politician talking.
_________________________
Team Witness
Witness in the Woods
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#1734448 - 01/19/10 02:56 PM
Re: Once an 8pt always an 8pt?
[Re: ghosthunter]
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Double-D-Team
10 Point
Registered: 12/18/02
Posts: 3483
Loc: God's Country
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I for one have been around and around on this. But based on what I understand as a cull buck or deer is by definition a undesirable buck or deer. So call it what you want. That's all I killed this year were mature undesirable deer or in my words CULL Bucks...
They sure filled the freeze and they taste good...
_________________________
Don and Dee (DOUBLE-D-TEAM)
THE RICHEST VALUES OF WILDERNESS LIE NOT IN THE DAYS OF DANIEL BOONE NOR EVEN IN THE PRESENT. BUT IN THE FUTURE--LEOPOLD
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#1734450 - 01/19/10 02:56 PM
Re: Once an 8pt always an 8pt?
[Re: tndrbstr]
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bowriter
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Registered: 08/31/02
Posts: 40337
Loc: Lebanon,TN USA
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Okay. If you are not using antlers as a criteria, how do define a cull buck? How do you know what buck to cull? Now of you compare that to the locker room, you may be able to understand what I was saying. Maybe not.
I never said you couldn't age an animal on the hoof. I said with few exceptions, you were using antlers as a crieria not age. If a 3.5 yr old 170 class buck walked by, almost everyone...make that everyone, would shoot it...me too. Now that using antlers instead of maturity as a criteria.
But if you are using maturity as a criteria, why even look at the antlers? If je is 6.5 and a spike, shoot him if age is your criteria.
Why is that so hard to understand? We have been disucssing this for 30 years.
_________________________
Constipation has ruined many a good day. Not as many as stupidity, though.
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#1734473 - 01/19/10 03:03 PM
Re: Once an 8pt always an 8pt?
[Re: bowriter]
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bowriter
Non-Typical
Registered: 08/31/02
Posts: 40337
Loc: Lebanon,TN USA
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Now you can cull deer all you want. It doesn't matter what sex or age they are. The goal is to reduce the total number. But it is impossible, in a wild herd, to cull based on genetics.
Impossible.
Okay. I'm done.
_________________________
Constipation has ruined many a good day. Not as many as stupidity, though.
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#1734534 - 01/19/10 03:30 PM
Re: Once an 8pt always an 8pt?
[Re: ghosthunter]
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Double-D-Team
10 Point
Registered: 12/18/02
Posts: 3483
Loc: God's Country
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Bowriter,
I know you have been on hunts that you have to kill a doe before you can take a buck....cull by sex.
To keep the buck doe ratio in check...cull by sex.
In 1976 I was in MT. on a management hunt and the land owner told me to take this 1 buck out of about 60 with the weird rack and small body. He said he didn't want that weird buck to be breeding. .. cull by genetics....
Okay, go ahead and slam me.
Okay, I'm done...
_________________________
Don and Dee (DOUBLE-D-TEAM)
THE RICHEST VALUES OF WILDERNESS LIE NOT IN THE DAYS OF DANIEL BOONE NOR EVEN IN THE PRESENT. BUT IN THE FUTURE--LEOPOLD
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