#1721364 - 01/12/10 01:33 PM
Re: Baiting/ BSK or Bowriter or anyone
[Re: wskp11]
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BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical
Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 59670
Loc: Nashville, TN
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I understand that but so many groups that I have talked to only allow large mature bucks and no other animals. I think that it is more previlent than we think. Land we have in NFl. is next such a club that its over run with does and inferior bucks. We have basically gone to the if its brown its down the past couple of years and still have them everywhere.
Not only is that not QDM, it is simply bad management.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan
"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James
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#1721376 - 01/12/10 01:44 PM
Re: Baiting/ BSK or Bowriter or anyone
[Re: Double-D-Team]
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BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical
Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 59670
Loc: Nashville, TN
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[ Three common practices include natural vegetation management, food plots, and supplemental feeding. Now this is copied from the QDM homepage. But you are telling me not to grow food plots or supplemental feed? Help me to understand?
First, I would almost never recommend supplemental feeding. That should only be done in unique situations where natural food sources are extremely limited, or vary dramatically seasonally or annually. I can't think of a situation in TN where I would recommend supplemental feeding.
But that doesn't mean food plots don't have inherent risks. First is allowing deer herds to increase in density because you have increased their nutritional intake. You can cause a sudden jump in reproductive success through improved nutrition, and you must be cognizant of that. In addition, food plots can cause other problems. They can alter deer movements, patterns and travel ranges. They can concentrate deer into the area of the food plot increasing browse pressure on the habitat of the area. This concentration of deer activity into one small area can also increase negative social interactions and stresses (deer social group conflict). They can probably cause other minor problems not yet documented.
Now do a not recommend food plots because of these problems? No, but when I design long-term habitat plans, I take these potential problems into consideration and develop plans that help mitigate these problems.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan
"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James
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#1721378 - 01/12/10 01:46 PM
Re: Baiting/ BSK or Bowriter or anyone
[Re: Double-D-Team]
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Football Hunter
18 Point
Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 24708
Loc: Wilson Co/Perry Co
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BSK, or Bowriter,
Why is QDM so much recommend if its doing the wrong things? I just want to know and no I'm not trying to start something... I'm not sure what you mean. Baiting and/or feeding is NOT recommended in QDM. On the other hand, ANY manipulation used to "improve" conditions for a species has risks. Improvements in habitat for deer has several potential risks, with the biggest being getting what you asked for--more deer. Unfortunately, most people will be oblivious to the signs of over-population until the problem is truly severe. And that's one of the things I stress heavily to clients--that by "building it, they will come." If you improve the habiat for deer, you will get more deer, either through attraction from surrounding properties or increased reproduction. Habitat manipulators must be highly attuned to herd conditions and be quick to notice and address excessive increases in population. BSK, I hear what your saying but read this: Habitat Management Whitetail Nutritional Needs Improving the nutrition available to a deer herd is another important component of QDM. The diet of a healthy herd should contain 12-18 percent protein and adequate levels of calcium, phosphorous, and other important nutrients. Although whitetails can maintain themselves on lower quality diets, antler development, body growth, and reproductive success suffer. Fortunately, several techniques are available to increase nutrition to desirable levels. Three common practices include natural vegetation management, food plots, and supplemental feeding. Now this is copied from the QDM homepage. But you are telling me not to grow food plots or supplemental feed? Help me to understand? He told you not to grow food plots??I must have missed that.?
_________________________
The best day to plant a tree,IS TODAY!
You wont know,if you dont go!
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#1721384 - 01/12/10 01:54 PM
Re: Baiting/ BSK or Bowriter or anyone
[Re: Football Hunter]
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bowriter
Non-Typical
Registered: 08/31/02
Posts: 40337
Loc: Lebanon,TN USA
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A food plot is only important if it is needed. And then it should not be hunted if it is intended to help the deer herd. Once you hunt a food plot, it loses its' value in terms of herd health.
The number one factor in habitat manipulation should always be enhancement of natural browse.
Just my opinion. QDM does not equal QDK.
_________________________
Constipation has ruined many a good day. Not as many as stupidity, though.
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#1721386 - 01/12/10 01:55 PM
Re: Baiting/ BSK or Bowriter or anyone
[Re: Double-D-Team]
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Football Hunter
18 Point
Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 24708
Loc: Wilson Co/Perry Co
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BSK, or Bowriter,
Why is QDM so much recommend if its doing the wrong things? I just want to know and no I'm not trying to start something... I'm not sure what you mean. Baiting and/or feeding is NOT recommended in QDM. On the other hand, ANY manipulation used to "improve" conditions for a species has risks. Improvements in habitat for deer has several potential risks, with the biggest being getting what you asked for--more deer. Unfortunately, most people will be oblivious to the signs of over-population until the problem is truly severe. And that's one of the things I stress heavily to clients--that by "building it, they will come." If you improve the habiat for deer, you will get more deer, either through attraction from surrounding properties or increased reproduction. Habitat manipulators must be highly attuned to herd conditions and be quick to notice and address excessive increases in population. BSK, I hear what your saying but read this: Habitat Management Whitetail Nutritional Needs Improving the nutrition available to a deer herd is another important component of QDM. The diet of a healthy herd should contain 12-18 percent protein and adequate levels of calcium, phosphorous, and other important nutrients. Although whitetails can maintain themselves on lower quality diets, antler development, body growth, and reproductive success suffer. Fortunately, several techniques are available to increase nutrition to desirable levels. Three common practices include natural vegetation management, food plots, and supplemental feeding. Now this is copied from the QDM homepage. But you are telling me not to grow food plots or supplemental feed? Help me to understand? Did you read all of that page double d?Not sure they are promoting it very hard,listed more reasons not too,than to do it seemed kike to me.
_________________________
The best day to plant a tree,IS TODAY!
You wont know,if you dont go!
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#1721469 - 01/12/10 02:52 PM
Re: Baiting/ BSK or Bowriter or anyone
[Re: HotshaftZ7]
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Double-D-Team
10 Point
Registered: 12/18/02
Posts: 3483
Loc: God's Country
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Okay now I'm all screwed-up!!!!!
First let me say I do not hunt over the food plot which is 100 wide 200 long that's all, Tecamonte one half, the other corn and clover with red bets. I do hunt about 200 to 300 yards on a travel trail to the food plot ( okay sue me).
Second, The supplemental feed in my 2 feeders is high dollar stuff that I by at the Co-Op. And no I don't hunt over the feeders either.. I got one feeder on some property we didn't even hunt this year. The second one is around the house which we don't hunt around at all.
So I guess my question is...Why am I doing this if its not helping the deer? By the way I have been doing this for the last 5 years. I have never seen the deer like I have this past season....And they looked healthy too. Bigger is better right?
_________________________
Don and Dee (DOUBLE-D-TEAM) THE RICHEST VALUES OF WILDERNESS LIE NOT IN THE DAYS OF DANIEL BOONE NOR EVEN IN THE PRESENT. BUT IN THE FUTURE--LEOPOLD
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#1721492 - 01/12/10 03:03 PM
Re: Baiting/ BSK or Bowriter or anyone
[Re: bowriter]
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richmanbarbeque
16 Point
Registered: 07/17/03
Posts: 12771
Loc: Middle, Tn
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And then it should not be hunted if it is intended to help the deer herd. Once you hunt a food plot, it loses its' value in terms of herd health.
I guess we better tell the deer that. Also, what about plots that are designed specifically for killing deer?
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#1721886 - 01/12/10 06:37 PM
Re: Baiting/ BSK or Bowriter or anyone
[Re: richmanbarbeque]
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bowriter
Non-Typical
Registered: 08/31/02
Posts: 40337
Loc: Lebanon,TN USA
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And then it should not be hunted if it is intended to help the deer herd. Once you hunt a food plot, it loses its' value in terms of herd health. I guess we better tell the deer that. Also, what about plots that are designed specifically for killing deer? The in my opinion, it becomes bait. A food plot thatis hunted results in a dead deer. How is that different from one starving to death? Both deer are dead. Very few deer in TN need a food plot or a feeder. The reason for every food plot I have ever seen is to attract deer to be shot. To me thatr is baiting.
_________________________
Constipation has ruined many a good day. Not as many as stupidity, though.
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#1722116 - 01/12/10 08:02 PM
Re: Baiting/ BSK or Bowriter or anyone
[Re: bowriter]
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wskp11
6 Point
Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 508
Loc: mid Tn
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Just think that we are all here talking and concerned about this and our dads would have just been shoot them if they saw any. Think how much TWRA and everybody's efforts weather good or bad have change the amount of deer that are in the state over the past 40 yrs. We may all not agree but thank god we all care!
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