#1718747 - 01/10/10 08:54 PM
Killing Does
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bassbug
Spike
Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 69
Loc: northeast AL
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Although I do hunt in AL I was reading the post about pressured does and didnt want to hijack it so I made this 1. In AL the season runs oct 15-jan 31 we are allowed 2 does a day all season in almost the entire state that is 216 does and 3 bucks a year. With that much pressure I still see does on public property and very few bucks. I know alot of yall think they are killed out but IMO they do adapt to all the hunting pressure
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#1718798 - 01/10/10 09:09 PM
Re: Killing Does
[Re: Aussie Sniper]
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pass-thru
10 Point
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Even with liberal bag limits, many still don't shoot does. So they may not be as pressured as you think.
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#1718952 - 01/10/10 10:02 PM
Re: Killing Does
[Re: pass-thru]
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spitndrum
Team TLBB Woodpile Boys
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I love to kill does!
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#1719021 - 01/10/10 10:49 PM
Re: Killing Does
[Re: spitndrum]
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Bertman
16 Point
Registered: 12/07/07
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and the doe taste good to.
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#1719070 - 01/11/10 12:48 AM
Re: Killing Does
[Re: Bertman]
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Whitehorse
TnDeer Old Timer
16 Point
Registered: 08/23/99
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I've heard tell from a very smart fellow that does do respond to pressure & a mature doe is harder to kill than a mature buck.
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#1719220 - 01/11/10 07:56 AM
Re: Killing Does
[Re: pass-thru]
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BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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Even with liberal bag limits, many still don't shoot does. So they may not be as pressured as you think.
Exactly. Although the limits in Unit L allow a hunter to kill well over 200 does, but only 3 bucks, the harvest still comes in around equal.
Those who freak over the liberal limits don't seem to realize that just because something is allowed doesn't mean hunters are actually doing it.
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"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan
"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James
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#1719232 - 01/11/10 08:05 AM
Re: Killing Does
[Re: BSK]
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Football Hunter
18 Point
Registered: 10/22/07
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Wonder if there are still just a big difference in Alabama in buck to doe ratio
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#1719376 - 01/11/10 09:31 AM
Re: Killing Does
[Re: Football Hunter]
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AlabamaSwamper
12 Point
Registered: 06/03/04
Posts: 5024
Loc: Southern Wayne CO and NW Alaba...
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Alabama's problem is they are still suffering from the "one buck a day" limit.
It's going to get better. Next year will be year three of the "three buck limit".
Tennessee had a 3 buck limit for several years, even before Unit L was formed. Tennessee is 10 years ahead of Alabama.
One reason I don't hunt down here anymore. Well, that and I quit dog hunting for deer.
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#1719406 - 01/11/10 09:43 AM
Re: Killing Does
[Re: AlabamaSwamper]
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bassbug
Spike
Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 69
Loc: northeast AL
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yes Im on a club that hasnt killed a handful of does in 4yrs but now the numbers are getting out of whack and we are having to take some does
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#1719411 - 01/11/10 09:44 AM
Re: Killing Does
[Re: spitndrum]
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Panther78
Team TLBB
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Who doesn't.
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#1719450 - 01/11/10 10:10 AM
Re: Killing Does
[Re: AlabamaSwamper]
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Yodel Dog
8 Point
Registered: 10/14/08
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You know, I've had several different theories on killing does over the years. I had a farmer tell me once, "if you want more bull calves, you don't get rid of your cows" and that was my thought on killing does. At the time, there was no reason to kill does. My opinion changed on shooting does several years later when the deer population exploded in my area in Mid TN. I shot a few. I think a lot of hunters in my area took the 3 does per day limit literally. I firmly believe too many does were killed in my area. Couple that with the EHD outbreak, deer numbers are not what they were 7 or 8 years ago. Based on what I'm seeing now, I'm back to the cow theory. I now believe killing does should be determined by each individual hunters common judgement. You know better than anyone what the deer numbers are on your property or lease. Me personally, I have no reason to kill does in the places I hunt. You, on the other hand, may need to take several. I just think it's a blanket statement to say "we do" or "we don't need to kill does".
Edited by Yodel Dog (01/11/10 10:12 AM)
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#1719453 - 01/11/10 10:21 AM
Re: Killing Does
[Re: Yodel Dog]
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bassbug
Spike
Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 69
Loc: northeast AL
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before we first got this lease it was brown its down and the numbers were way down now it isnt uncommon to see 10 or more does in a group in early season (I saw 6 together saturday) and the does are starting to outnumber bucks so we got to get it back to a closer ratio
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#1719465 - 01/11/10 10:30 AM
Re: Killing Does
[Re: bassbug]
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BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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Doe harvests should always be decided upon using site specific criteria. Some areas probably need a lot of does killed, some areas may need few if any killed.
It all depends on the site specific conditions/indicators.
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"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan
"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James
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#1719470 - 01/11/10 10:35 AM
Re: Killing Does
[Re: Yodel Dog]
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BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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I had a farmer tell me once, "if you want more bull calves, you don't get rid of your cows" and that was my thought on killing does.
The primary problem with that idea when it comes to whitetailed deer is Yearling Buck Dispersal (YBD). Depending upon the size of your property, many of the yearling bucks you see during hunting season were not born on your property. They were born "somewhere else" and moved to your property during YBD. Depending upon the habitat and doe harvest policies, 50-80% of yearling bucks disperse from their birth range, often traveling miles before choosing a new range.
You may not have a single male fawn born on your property for years, but you may still have a perfectly normal crop of yearling bucks each year. Dispersal insures that.
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"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan
"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James
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#1719515 - 01/11/10 11:01 AM
Re: Killing Does
[Re: BSK]
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Winchester
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I think many here have had their trials with doe killing, with how many need to be killed and when. I too have changed my thoughts some on the does. I once thought we should kill every one possible and we did. All this got us however was even more does, they were being replaced from adjoining properties to take advantage of our food and cover, faster than we were killing them it seemed. I know in many areas you can succesfully thin the doe herd, but in some places if the neighbors arent killing any does, its impossible to gain much ground. All you end up doing in some cases is educating the entire herd as to them being hunted.
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#1719533 - 01/11/10 11:14 AM
Re: Killing Does
[Re: Winchester]
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BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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I know in many areas you can succesfully thin the doe herd, but in some places if the neighbors arent killing any does, its impossible to gain much ground. All you end up doing in some cases is educating the entire herd as to them being hunted.
Yup.
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"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan
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#1719557 - 01/11/10 11:25 AM
Re: Killing Does
[Re: BSK]
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TLRanger
8 Point
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Doe season is not a new idea. Where I do most of my hunting (Carroll Co. TN), doe have been legal to kill since the seventys. First there were quota doe hunts, then post season non quota either sex hunts plus archery season. I know doe killing opportunities have been increased in recent years but open season on them is not a new idea. They may be slightly more pressured now but they have been fair game for many years which makes them just as wary as a buck. Again, this is where I hunt in West Tennessee.
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#1719566 - 01/11/10 11:31 AM
Re: Killing Does
[Re: TLRanger]
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Winchester
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TLR, sure there have been some limited opportuities to kill does for many years now, but nothing like them being legal to kill every day of season, with multiple tags to boot! The does here in TN have never had the kind of pressure put on them compared to the last several years.
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#1719621 - 01/11/10 12:10 PM
Re: Killing Does
[Re: Winchester]
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BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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TLR, sure there have been some limited opportuities to kill does for many years now, but nothing like them being legal to kill every day of season, with multiple tags to boot! The does here in TN have never had the kind of pressure put on them compared to the last several years.
I agree. There's a big differene between a few designated quota hunts and open season every day of rifle season.
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"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan
"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James
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#1719688 - 01/11/10 12:58 PM
Re: Killing Does
[Re: BSK]
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TC4ever
16 Point
Registered: 10/19/07
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That is why I made my comment in the other thread! My son and I have agresively been hunting does on our prop. for three or four years now. Their travel patterns\times of travel have changed dramatically since we first started this!
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#1719695 - 01/11/10 01:01 PM
Re: Killing Does
[Re: TC4ever]
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BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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That is why I made my comment in the other thread! My son and I have agresively been hunting does on our prop. for three or four years now. Their travel patterns\times of travel have changed dramatically since we first started this!
And that will only continue. We found it took 3-4 years of intensive harvest to really alter doe patterns dramatically.
Then we had to alter our hunting locations/style to adjust to their new patterns. It is a constant battle, with the deer usually one step ahead of us.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan
"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James
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#1719709 - 01/11/10 01:07 PM
Re: Killing Does
[Re: BSK]
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TC4ever
16 Point
Registered: 10/19/07
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Loc: Va
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The two of us killed 9 on our 80 acres this year. One interesting thing I have noticed is that the does seem to be starting to feel safer close to our house. Over the last two years the sightings have risen quite extensively of does feeding right alongside our house. I wonder: out our back door 25' it is a very steep grade{southeast facing} up for about 150 yards. While hiking it around Christmas in the snow I found multiple beds, they{deer} could basically be watching us head out to hunt from most any of these beds!
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#1719852 - 01/11/10 03:09 PM
Re: Killing Does
[Re: TC4ever]
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BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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Registered: 03/11/99
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The two of us killed 9 on our 80 acres this year. One interesting thing I have noticed is that the does seem to be starting to feel safer close to our house. Over the last two years the sightings have risen quite extensively of does feeding right alongside our house. I wonder: out our back door 25' it is a very steep grade{southeast facing} up for about 150 yards. While hiking it around Christmas in the snow I found multiple beds, they{deer} could basically be watching us head out to hunt from most any of these beds!
Deer will rapidly determine where they are and where thy are not safe from hunting, and will concentrate their activities in the areas they are safe.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan
"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James
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#1719917 - 01/11/10 03:44 PM
Re: Killing Does
[Re: Yodel Dog]
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Devin2009
4 Point
Registered: 10/05/09
Posts: 442
Loc: Mt.Pleasant Tn.
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You know, I've had several different theories on killing does over the years. I had a farmer tell me once, "if you want more bull calves, you don't get rid of your cows" and that was my thought on killing does. At the time, there was no reason to kill does. My opinion changed on shooting does several years later when the deer population exploded in my area in Mid TN. I shot a few. I think a lot of hunters in my area took the 3 does per day limit literally. I firmly believe too many does were killed in my area. Couple that with the EHD outbreak, deer numbers are not what they were 7 or 8 years ago. Based on what I'm seeing now, I'm back to the cow theory. I now believe killing does should be determined by each individual hunters common judgement. You know better than anyone what the deer numbers are on your property or lease. Me personally, I have no reason to kill does in the places I hunt. You, on the other hand, may need to take several. I just think it's a blanket statement to say "we do" or "we don't need to kill does".
deer are not cows.....they useally have 2 or more fawns a year....cows most of the time only have a calf every 13-14 months.....and they are wild animals.....the cow theroy is garbage....people wonder how come they dont have many big bucks....their is only so much food...when you see 25-30 does in one food plot...theirs a problem.....but people still are againast shooting does>>>but why you have to thin down the herd...but in one way deer are like cows...you have to get rid of a few every now and again to keep the pasture healthy and weed out the ones that are to old to breed..just like deer>
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#1719997 - 01/11/10 04:31 PM
Re: Killing Does
[Re: Devin2009]
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Yodel Dog
8 Point
Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 1087
Loc: Mid Tn
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deer are not cows.....they useally have 2 or more fawns a year....cows most of the time only have a calf every 13-14 months.....and they are wild animals.....the cow theroy is garbage....people wonder how come they dont have many big bucks....their is only so much food...when you see 25-30 does in one food plot...theirs a problem.....but people still are againast shooting does>>>but why you have to thin down the herd...but in one way deer are like cows...you have to get rid of a few every now and again to keep the pasture healthy and weed out the ones that are to old to breed..just like deer>
You can't make up your mind on the cow theory can you. A couple more sentences and you would have been its number 1 advocate.
Edited by Yodel Dog (01/11/10 04:32 PM)
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#1720105 - 01/11/10 05:19 PM
Re: Killing Does
[Re: Yodel Dog]
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redblood
16 Point
Registered: 01/22/06
Posts: 10147
Loc: Lewisburg
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Interesting. I don't shoot does and wouldn't unless I was starving. But one of my parents farms borders a huge thick block of woods that received very light hunting pressure- about 1000 acre block in unit L. Every day there are 8-30 does in the food plot behind their house. I don't really hunt it but I have shot a mature buck or 2 from their yard, that come in november chasin does. The does are virtually tame and won't pay any attention to you as long as you stay in the yard. I wonder how it would change if I ever shot one. Doesn't matter because I never will.
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#1720160 - 01/11/10 05:42 PM
Re: Killing Does
[Re: Yodel Dog]
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Devin2009
4 Point
Registered: 10/05/09
Posts: 442
Loc: Mt.Pleasant Tn.
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deer are not cows.....they useally have 2 or more fawns a year....cows most of the time only have a calf every 13-14 months.....and they are wild animals.....the cow theroy is garbage....people wonder how come they dont have many big bucks....their is only so much food...when you see 25-30 does in one food plot...theirs a problem.....but people still are againast shooting does>>>but why you have to thin down the herd...but in one way deer are like cows...you have to get rid of a few every now and again to keep the pasture healthy and weed out the ones that are to old to breed..just like deer> You can't make up your mind on the cow theory can you.  A couple more sentences and you would have been its number 1 advocate.
bottom line thats dumb>>>>>>>you can't fence in deer...they reproduce twice as much...and their are by far more than cows....................
now we can drag this threw the mud...it can get ugly..and the name calling will start...i dont wont that...most people would agree that "your theroy"is not a very smart idea......but hey if it works for you then go for it......but deer are in no way shape or form like cow...never have never will....
good day
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#1720184 - 01/11/10 06:04 PM
Re: Killing Does
[Re: Devin2009]
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Yodel Dog
8 Point
Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 1087
Loc: Mid Tn
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deer are not cows.....they useally have 2 or more fawns a year....cows most of the time only have a calf every 13-14 months.....and they are wild animals.....the cow theroy is garbage....people wonder how come they dont have many big bucks....their is only so much food...when you see 25-30 does in one food plot...theirs a problem.....but people still are againast shooting does>>>but why you have to thin down the herd...but in one way deer are like cows...you have to get rid of a few every now and again to keep the pasture healthy and weed out the ones that are to old to breed..just like deer> You can't make up your mind on the cow theory can you.  A couple more sentences and you would have been its number 1 advocate. bottom line thats dumb>>>>>>>you can't fence in deer...they reproduce twice as much...and their are by far more than cows.................... now we can drag this threw the mud...it can get ugly..and the name calling will start...i dont wont that...most people would agree that "your theroy"is not a very smart idea......but hey if it works for you then go for it......but deer are in no way shape or form like cow...never have never will.... good day
I won't take this any further. I feel guilty arguing with a man that can't spell THEORY. Peace out, Theroy.
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"...Shooting a deer is like shooting a cow..." Phil Robertson
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#1720192 - 01/11/10 06:09 PM
Re: Killing Does
[Re: Yodel Dog]
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Devin2009
4 Point
Registered: 10/05/09
Posts: 442
Loc: Mt.Pleasant Tn.
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down where i come from thats how you spells it......and i wont take this any futher.....i also feel quilty arguing with a man that thinks cows are like deer.Now who feels dumb??? i might not can spell but i now what animals are...i learned that when i was 2........peace out!
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#1720200 - 01/11/10 06:12 PM
Re: Killing Does
[Re: AlabamaSwamper]
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bsl
10 Point
Registered: 12/23/07
Posts: 3506
Loc: knox,tn.
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We kill a lot of does most years and there are more to take thier place next year.Hope that is the case next year.we killed 12 does and 3 bucks on 180 acres.
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#1720229 - 01/11/10 06:25 PM
Re: Killing Does
[Re: Devin2009]
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Yodel Dog
8 Point
Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 1087
Loc: Mid Tn
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down where i come from thats how you spells it......and i wont take this any futher.....i also feel quilty arguing with a man that thinks cows are like deer.Now who feels dumb??? i might not can spell but i now what animals are...i learned that when i was 2........peace out!
U mite be rite. I jus no how day spell it were I cum frum. I want argu wif u no mor ether. I dont fill dum, but i no the diffrunts n a cow and dear. Peace out, Theroy.
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"...Shooting a deer is like shooting a cow..." Phil Robertson
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#1720232 - 01/11/10 06:26 PM
Re: Killing Does
[Re: bsl]
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Devin2009
4 Point
Registered: 10/05/09
Posts: 442
Loc: Mt.Pleasant Tn.
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We kill a lot of does most years and there are more to take thier place next year.Hope that is the case next year.we killed 12 does and 3 bucks on 180 acres.
same with us....but we have a little over 250 acres....you cant kill enough...
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#1720246 - 01/11/10 06:30 PM
Re: Killing Does
[Re: Aussie Sniper]
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Yodel Dog
8 Point
Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 1087
Loc: Mid Tn
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Yodel Dog how many cows did you check in? If you've got meat left send it my way!
"...Shooting a deer is like shooting a cow..." Phil Robertson
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"...Shooting a deer is like shooting a cow..." Phil Robertson
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#1720253 - 01/11/10 06:32 PM
Re: Killing Does
[Re: Devin2009]
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caretaker
TnDeer Old Timer
8 Point
Registered: 10/10/99
Posts: 1721
Loc: Rufe Miller Cemetary
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I will and have taken doe when and where legal. I hunt for meat and don`t need to take a buck. I will take a cull buck for the freezer. I will not take more than I need. Also I am extremely grateful for the food.
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#1720256 - 01/11/10 06:33 PM
Re: Killing Does
[Re: Aussie Sniper]
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Aussie Sniper
4 Point
Registered: 10/05/09
Posts: 248
Loc: Middle Tn
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If TWRA's ratio data is correct; if you kill too many does I guess you'd wipe the herd out.
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#1720299 - 01/11/10 06:56 PM
Re: Killing Does
[Re: Aussie Sniper]
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Yodel Dog
8 Point
Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 1087
Loc: Mid Tn
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Devin, pm sent
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#1720744 - 01/11/10 11:48 PM
Re: Killing Does
[Re: Yodel Dog]
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bassbug
Spike
Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 69
Loc: northeast AL
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IMO what Ive seen with to many does to bucks when the does come in they all dont get bred making for a less defined rut and less daylight rutting activity. That being said all cows dont generally come in at the same time so 1 bull can keep them all serviced
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#1720961 - 01/12/10 08:15 AM
Re: Killing Does
[Re: bassbug]
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Yodel Dog
8 Point
Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 1087
Loc: Mid Tn
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Boy, the cow comment went right over some heads!
_________________________
"...Shooting a deer is like shooting a cow..." Phil Robertson
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#1721350 - 01/12/10 01:12 PM
Re: Killing Does
[Re: BSK]
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TLRanger
8 Point
Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 1040
Loc: Nashville
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TLR, sure there have been some limited opportuities to kill does for many years now, but nothing like them being legal to kill every day of season, with multiple tags to boot! The does here in TN have never had the kind of pressure put on them compared to the last several years. I agree. There's a big differene between a few designated quota hunts and open season every day of rifle season.
Wow! I just now realized how dumb I am! The doe in Carroll Co. have gotten much more wary since they found out they were in unit L. Of course the ones across the county line in unit A (Benton Co) are much easier to kill because they are not hunted as much. Sure.
_________________________
Twentynine Pines Hunting Club: Carroll Co. TN Whitetail Lodge Hunting Club: Nelson Co. KY USMC - Naval Security Group
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