#1723110 - 01/13/10 08:55 AM
Re: Baiting/ BSK or Bowriter or anyone
[Re: bowriter]
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BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical
Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 59668
Loc: Nashville, TN
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A food plot is only important if it is needed. And then it should not be hunted if it is intended to help the deer herd. Once you hunt a food plot, it loses its' value in terms of herd health.
When I design long-term habitat plans, if the client has the area necessary, I design two types of food plots: feeder plots and attractant plots. Feeders plots are large plots (2+ acres) intended for producing higher quality foods than are available in the natural environment, even with habitat manipulation. Few natural foods (other than acorns) produce high-quality nutrition in winter. These feeder plots are NEVER to be hunted. If you kill deer off of them, you are reducing deer usage and potential benefit. Why plant food for deer and then dare them at risk of death from eating it? The second type of plot is an attractant plot. These plots are small (under an acre) and not intended for nutritional intake. They are simply used for attracting deer to a given area. Hunt them or not hunt them at the hunters pleasure. If they are hunted, they serve the same purpose as bait without many of the problems of bait. They do produce some food value--more than bait--but nowhere near as much as the feeder plots.
The number one factor in habitat manipulation should always be enhancement of natural browse.
I agree, and this should take preference over food plots. Once natural food sources have been adequately adressed, THEN food plots can play an improtant role.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan
"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James
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#1723132 - 01/13/10 09:06 AM
Re: Baiting/ BSK or Bowriter or anyone
[Re: Double-D-Team]
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BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical
Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 59668
Loc: Nashville, TN
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Okay now I'm all screwed-up!!!!!
First let me say I do not hunt over the food plot which is 100 wide 200 long that's all, Tecamonte one half, the other corn and clover with red bets. I do hunt about 200 to 300 yards on a travel trail to the food plot ( okay sue me).
That sounds like a good "feeder" plot. You are definitely getting the most nutritional benefit out of this plot by not hunting it.
Second, The supplemental feed in my 2 feeders is high dollar stuff that I by at the Co-Op. And no I don't hunt over the feeders either.. I got one feeder on some property we didn't even hunt this year. The second one is around the house which we don't hunt around at all.
Personally, I do not recommend supplemental feeding. The bebefits are "iffy" and the potential problems too great. It doesn't matter how "high dollar" the pelletized food source used in a feeder, no one knows what the real nutritional needs of whitetailed deer are. We humans are the most studied animal on the plant--easily 100 times more research has gone into our dietary needs--and there is still no agreement on our dietary needs. In fact, recommendations are still all over the place for humans. We don't know what minute variations in trace minerals might be toxic to deer hence the benefits to deer of feeding pelletized rations is suspect.
There are many, many potential problems with supplemental feeding.
So I guess my question is...Why am I doing this if its not helping the deer?
You could potentially be harming the deer in unknown ways, as well as potentially harming the surrounding habitat.
By the way I have been doing this for the last 5 years. I have never seen the deer like I have this past season...
The problem with that observation is many, many others who don't have food plots or feeders are also reporting deer in exceptional physical health and performance, due primarily to the wet, cool summer and great acorn crop. You can't assume your food plot and feeders are the reason for the great observed deer health this year.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan
"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James
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#1723545 - 01/13/10 01:20 PM
Re: Baiting/ BSK or Bowriter or anyone
[Re: bowriter]
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Double-D-Team
10 Point
Registered: 12/18/02
Posts: 3483
Loc: God's Country
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Thanks Brain and John,
I do really see your point and by all means you are more qualified than I.
So let me try something here:
No feeders and no food plots and my deer will be fine and it won't effect them, right.
Man I can save alot of money and time.
So in Tn we just need to let Mother Nature take care of the deer and all we got to do is just hunt?
(I'm not trying to sound like a smart A$$, okay) I'm just trying to do the right thing here that's all.
Again thanks to you both for taking the time to answer our questions. I do respect your comments.
_________________________
Don and Dee (DOUBLE-D-TEAM)
THE RICHEST VALUES OF WILDERNESS LIE NOT IN THE DAYS OF DANIEL BOONE NOR EVEN IN THE PRESENT. BUT IN THE FUTURE--LEOPOLD
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#1723578 - 01/13/10 01:49 PM
Re: Baiting/ BSK or Bowriter or anyone
[Re: Double-D-Team]
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BigGameGuy
TWRA Biologist
12 Point
Registered: 05/14/04
Posts: 6359
Loc: Nashville
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So in Tn we just need to let Mother Nature take care of the deer and all we got to do is just hunt?
(I'm not trying to sound like a smart A$$, okay) I'm just trying to do the right thing here that's all.
That's what I do and I've never enjoyed hunting more.
_________________________
If given the choice between education and regulation, I'll choose education every time.
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#1723582 - 01/13/10 01:54 PM
Re: Baiting/ BSK or Bowriter or anyone
[Re: BigGameGuy]
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Double-D-Team
10 Point
Registered: 12/18/02
Posts: 3483
Loc: God's Country
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So in Tn we just need to let Mother Nature take care of the deer and all we got to do is just hunt?
(I'm not trying to sound like a smart A$$, okay) I'm just trying to do the right thing here that's all. That's what I do and I've never enjoyed hunting more.
BigGameGuy, it will be something new for 2010 that's for sure.
No stress, just hunt. 
_________________________
Don and Dee (DOUBLE-D-TEAM)
THE RICHEST VALUES OF WILDERNESS LIE NOT IN THE DAYS OF DANIEL BOONE NOR EVEN IN THE PRESENT. BUT IN THE FUTURE--LEOPOLD
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#1723587 - 01/13/10 01:56 PM
Re: Baiting/ BSK or Bowriter or anyone
[Re: BigGameGuy]
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Winchester
Non-Typical
Registered: 12/05/03
Posts: 25328
Loc: TN
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So in Tn we just need to let Mother Nature take care of the deer and all we got to do is just hunt?
(I'm not trying to sound like a smart A$$, okay) I'm just trying to do the right thing here that's all. That's what I do and I've never enjoyed hunting more.
I do a lot of the same on many areas myself!
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#1723690 - 01/13/10 02:52 PM
Re: Baiting/ BSK or Bowriter or anyone
[Re: Double-D-Team]
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BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical
Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 59668
Loc: Nashville, TN
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Thanks Brain and John,
I do really see your point and by all means you are more qualified than I.
So let me try something here:
No feeders and no food plots and my deer will be fine and it won't effect them, right.
I'm not discounting or downplaying food plots. I recommend them. But having adequate natural browse is far more important.
If I had to prioritize what is most important for smaller properties (those under 1,000 acres), I would put adequate and well-distributed cover habitat at the top of the list. Cover habitat will gain you more than all other habitat features combined. Next I would choose large volumes of natural browse. Third would be food plots. Feeder food plots have one advantage over natural browse in that they can provide food sources higher in nutritional content than natural browse during the fall and winter months. But food plots have the detraction of possibly failing. Weather conditions out of our control can cause total crop failure. Native browse never completely fails.
Man I can save alot of money and time.
Yes you would and I would definitely recommend saving the money you're spending on supplimental feed for use in other management endeavors. But I would continue with the food plots, after you've fully addressed cover and natural food resources. Thankfully, some forms of cover and natural food development can not only be free, you can make money while creating them (timber harvests).
So in Tn we just need to let Mother Nature take care of the deer and all we got to do is just hunt?
Not necessarily. Letting Nature take her course can mean many things. Just letting Nature take her course in a big woods environment isn't going to get you far, except less deer. A chainsaw can be the most profitable wildlife management tool available. And again, once cover and natural food sources have been addressed, food plots can be a wonderful addition.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan
"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James
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#1728602 - 01/16/10 11:27 AM
Re: Baiting/ BSK or Bowriter or anyone
[Re: BSK]
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Mike Belt
TnDeer Old Timer
16 Point
Registered: 03/26/99
Posts: 16941
Loc: Lakeland, Tn.
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No pro here, just my take...I differeniate food plots and baiting if for no other reason than one highly concentrates deer and the other doesn't. During the cold/flu season even healthy humans in high contact with other humans (school, work, shopping, etc.) are more susceptable to catching something than those not associated with as much human contact. Deer are no different. In my opinion bait piles are entirely for concentrating deer as opposed to food plots which more losely concentrate them but also serve as a nutrional source of intake. I know a deer's nutrional needs differ throughout the year and food plots may help meet some of these requirements throughout the year but the cool/winter season plots are probably the most beneficial because of the lack of natural food sources during that time frame. They are there after deer season closes in the hunter's absence. In most cases the bait piles no longer exist. That in itself tells me that bait piles are not used for any nutrioinal value but rather purely as an attractant for the purpose of killing a deer. As I see it, those that use bait piles for that purpose (at least here in the south where we hunt) are more likely to shoot any deer as opposed to those hunting strictly for mature bucks. Nothing wrong with that if that's your choice. The mature animals probably aren't going to give you that opportunity anyway over a bait pile or food plot during daylight hours, especially after hunting pressure starts. On a more personal note, I don't quite see shooting a deer off a bait pile as much as deer hunting as I do bait pile hunting...and I prefer to hunt deer.
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BONE HEAD HUNTER
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