#1714781 - 01/08/10 02:39 PM
Re: Pressured Does
[Re: Yodel Dog]
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woodchuckc
8 Point
Registered: 02/09/05
Posts: 1595
Loc: Hickman County, TN
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They aren't "smart" the way we consider "smart" in human terms, but they become conditioned very quickly to adverse events. I know that it has become more and more difficult for me to see, let alone get shots at, does as I started targeting them more heavily a few years ago especially as the season progresses. And yes, I know they are not getting "shot out" because I still get plenty of pictures of them on my cameras (all at night, of course).
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#1714782 - 01/08/10 02:41 PM
Re: Pressured Does
[Re: Cy]
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Beekeeper
Good ol' Boys "Team Buckcreek"
16 Point
Registered: 08/26/09
Posts: 10930
Loc: McMinn Co. Tennessee
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It is probably a combination of several factors.
• There are fewer does in the area.
• The does that remain in the area are the ones that are more secretive than those that are killed in that area.
• This year the mast crop made it easier for the deer to find food without having to move very much.
• Over the years hunters get use to seeing and killing does easily and do not change their approach to match the deer’s altered patterns that they adopt to avoid hunting pressure.
IMO
_________________________
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.
Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
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#1714784 - 01/08/10 02:47 PM
Re: Pressured Does
[Re: Winchester]
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Yodel Dog
8 Point
Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 1087
Loc: Mid Tn
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You guys are just kidding yourself if you think deer dont learn and react negatively to pressure/killing them. Its uncanny how quickly they can determine the difference in terms, for instance a farmer in the field feeding his cattle every day will get little more than a look from the resident deer. Then season opens and he decides to kill him a couple, and takes his gun along and kills one, then maybe another one again on day 2, he will be lucky to even see a deer by day 3 where they had been for months without fail. I have saw this reaction in much more complex circumstances several times over the years hunting certain areas, they absolutely learn very quickly what is a danger to them and what isnt. And yes I guarantee you most people who never kill or even see a mature buck are hunting areas where 1 or more lives, they are that good at patterning/avoiding danger once they get a few years on them! I would venture to say anybody that is arguing this doesnt see or kill very many mature deer! I agree, but if that farmer only harvests bucks, will the does continue to feed in site if his tractor? I think not. They're not smart enough to think hey we got nothing to worry about, we're does, he only shoots bucks. Actually yes, if a farmer only ever shoots bucks, he will definitely have does showing themselves much more than the bucks will, absolutely. Why do you think the does were so easy to kill in the unit L counties when they were first opened, it was normally only bucks getting shot, now the tables have turned and the does have gotten smarter as well. Now I am not one who believes they become as hard to kill as a mature buck, but they definitely LEARN!
Based on my experience, I disagree. I run enough trail cams to know what's there and what's just not being seen. There's nowhere near the number of does in my area of Unit L there were 10, even 5 years ago. When the shooting starts, they all become wary of walking around in daylight. I know some will disagree, but they're just not smart enough to know who's getting shot at.
_________________________
"...Shooting a deer is like shooting a cow..." Phil Robertson
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#1714837 - 01/08/10 03:13 PM
Re: Pressured Does
[Re: plinker22]
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TLRanger
8 Point
Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 1040
Loc: Nashville
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Webster's Dictionary
di-ur-nal: 1. Related to or happening in a day or each day (daily) 2. Active or occurring during the daytime rather than at night.
_________________________
Twentynine Pines Hunting Club: Carroll Co. TN
Whitetail Lodge Hunting Club: Nelson Co. KY
USMC - Naval Security Group
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#1714849 - 01/08/10 03:20 PM
Re: Pressured Does
[Re: plinker22]
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username
10 Point
Registered: 05/08/02
Posts: 4103
Loc: Williamson County
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If you don't believe it, just start whacking does for a while and see for yourself. Be sure you run some cameras though so you can see the proof that they still exist in good numbers.
We did that when unit L first started in Williamson county and I swore up and down we'd killed them all or they had vacated the premises. Boy was I surprised when I started pulling cam cards. It was humbling to say the least.
The funny thing is, apparently, when you remove the harvest pressure, they switch back.
Since the EHD outbreak, we've had a very balanced adult sex ratio and haven't shot a single doe in '07,'08,or'09. And does are walking around during daylight every day. I will concede that most of these does that we're seeing now, probably weren't alive while our extreme doe harvest strategy was active though.
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#1714855 - 01/08/10 03:25 PM
Re: Pressured Does
[Re: username]
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Yodel Dog
8 Point
Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 1087
Loc: Mid Tn
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If you don't believe it, just start whacking does for a while and see for yourself. Be sure you run some cameras though so you can see the proof that they still exist in good numbers.
We did that when unit L first started in Williamson county and I swore up and down we'd killed them all or they had vacated the premises. Boy was I surprised when I started pulling cam cards. It was humbling to say the least.
The funny thing is, apparently, when you remove the harvest pressure, they switch back.
Since the EHD outbreak, we've had a very balanced adult sex ratio and haven't shot a single doe in '07,'08,or'09. And does are walking around during daylight every day. I will concede that most of these does that we're seeing now, probably weren't alive while our extreme doe harvest strategy was active though.
It wasn't because they knew you were shooting at them. It's because you were shooting. When you stopped shooting, you started to see them again.
_________________________
"...Shooting a deer is like shooting a cow..." Phil Robertson
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#1714878 - 01/08/10 03:35 PM
Re: Pressured Does
[Re: Yodel Dog]
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username
10 Point
Registered: 05/08/02
Posts: 4103
Loc: Williamson County
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If you don't believe it, just start whacking does for a while and see for yourself. Be sure you run some cameras though so you can see the proof that they still exist in good numbers.
We did that when unit L first started in Williamson county and I swore up and down we'd killed them all or they had vacated the premises. Boy was I surprised when I started pulling cam cards. It was humbling to say the least.
The funny thing is, apparently, when you remove the harvest pressure, they switch back.
Since the EHD outbreak, we've had a very balanced adult sex ratio and haven't shot a single doe in '07,'08,or'09. And does are walking around during daylight every day. I will concede that most of these does that we're seeing now, probably weren't alive while our extreme doe harvest strategy was active though. It wasn't because they knew you were shooting at them. It's because you were shooting. When you stopped shooting, you started to see them again.
I don't pretend to know what they think. I just know we started shooting alot of does and drove the surviving ones almost completely nocturnal.
Since EHD we stopped because we didn't need to anymore and now they are grazing like cattle in our fields every evening in broad daylight. The 2 1/2+ year old bucks certainly don't though.
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#1714936 - 01/08/10 03:57 PM
Re: Pressured Does
[Re: Football Hunter]
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Cy
6 Point
Registered: 09/20/09
Posts: 740
Loc: Wears Valley & Cannon County
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Let me ask it a different way.
A doe/fawn family group walks by my stand and I drop one of em bang/flop. I don't jump down out of the stand, etc., but let that group do whatever they're going to do when they hear the shot, wait for them to clear the area, then climb down and take care of business.
Does it make sense that those does are now more likely not to show themselves around that stand or during day light in future because of that experience?
Again, I understand that if I harvest two does off a property at carrying capacity then I'm less likely to see deer because there ARE less deer. I also understand that if I change the way I hunt (extra days just to hunt does, drives or "doe days", etc.), then I'm less likely to see deer because I have increased the level of disturbance.
I just can't get my thick skull around deer getting "smarter", or conditioned to doe hunting. By the time they get the real lesson, it's too late and they're going for a ride in the truck.
_________________________
Semper Gumby
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