#1706868 - 01/04/10 03:56 PM
Re: TWRA graphs
[Re: Yodel Dog]
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mcnairy mike
Spike
Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 48
Loc: west tenn
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Hunting in mcnairy co. and we used to have university of memphis students at checking stations with twra collecting data have not seen that in years
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#1707060 - 01/04/10 05:36 PM
Re: TWRA graphs
[Re: Setterman]
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BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical
Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 59548
Loc: Nashville, TN
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To me, it is obvious from the first few graphs I posted, hunters in Tennessee are voluntarily passing up spikes, 3 and 4s, and (to a lesser extent) 5 and 6s. They do not pass up anything with 7 or more points, and those harvest numbers continue rising. The trend of passing little antlers is continuing, and shows no sign of changing. I wonder if the folks who are focusing on 7's or better are thinking they are targeting mature deer, while in reality they are harvesting sub-mature deer with quality racks? If they knew better they might let these walk, or maybe not.
The only way to know would be to look at the TWRA aged bucks. Is the harvest of 7+ point yearlings continuing to increase as fast as 7+ point 2 1/2+ year-old bucks? Or is the continuing increase in 7+ point bucks harvested simply due to the increased kill of 2 1/2+ bucks (which are more likely to have 7+ points)?
...are thinking they are targeting mature deer...
...If they knew better they might let these walk...
...and that is all it could take for folks to begin to focus on larger more mature bucks.
Let's hope a large number of hunters don't begin to focus ONLY on mature bucks. That would be a recipe for disaster. First, there would be even more disappointed hunters (those are tough bucks to kill), and these bucks only make up a tiny portion of any herd, no matter the age structure. Eventually, herd density would become a problem. Even trophy ranches have to harvest a good number of sub-mature bucks to keep population density in line.
The only QDM "failures" I've seen came from hunters setting their sights to high. They simply weren't prepared for the effort required to kill only mature bucks.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan
"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James
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#1707071 - 01/04/10 05:39 PM
Re: TWRA graphs
[Re: Yodel Dog]
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BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical
Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 59548
Loc: Nashville, TN
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It is surprising to me that this year with the increase in buck tags that the 1.5 year old harvest has not increased... You aren't the only one who's surprised! And the fact it looks like we've killed the oldest class of bucks ever in TN-- after raising the limit--is a head-scratcher to say the least. It could have a lot to do with the way the data was collected. How many days a year is TWRA aging bucks at check-in stations? What period of the season is this aging being done? I understand the whole idea of "sampling", but there's no way this data is accurate.
I've looked at the data collected at the check station by the TWRA, looked at data from check stations not monitored by the TWRA, and then looked at data from all other times of the hunting season besides the times the TWRA was manning the check stations. If any bias in the TWRA-collected buck age data exists, it appears to be towards the young side. The data suggests the weekends the TWRA collects data produces the youngest age-class of bucks harvested.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan
"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James
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#1707111 - 01/04/10 05:53 PM
Re: TWRA graphs
[Re: BSK]
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Yodel Dog
8 Point
Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 1087
Loc: Mid Tn
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I've looked at the data collected at the check station by the TWRA, looked at data from check stations not monitored by the TWRA, and then looked at data from all other times of the hunting season besides the times the TWRA was manning the check stations. If any bias in the TWRA-collected buck age data exists, it appears to be towards the young side. The data suggests the weekends the TWRA collects data produces the youngest age-class of bucks harvested.
Who's collecting this data?
_________________________
"...Shooting a deer is like shooting a cow..." Phil Robertson
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#1707281 - 01/04/10 07:04 PM
Re: TWRA graphs
[Re: Yodel Dog]
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chip
4 Point
Registered: 09/06/09
Posts: 463
Loc: spring hill
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How many deer were actually aged out of the total harvest ?
I doubt very many!!!!
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#1707325 - 01/04/10 07:20 PM
Re: TWRA graphs
[Re: chip]
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RecurveShooter
6 Point
Registered: 03/16/07
Posts: 632
Loc: Henderson County
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So far this year our age data is from 3,063 bucks. Last year's (2008-09) sample size was 4,061. The year before(2007-08) was 3,427.
https://hfwa.centraltechnology.net/TNHFInternetHarvest/app/statewideReportSearch.do
It has been the same data collection method for over 20 years.
Edited by RecurveShooter (01/04/10 07:21 PM)
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#1707396 - 01/04/10 07:39 PM
Re: TWRA graphs
[Re: chip]
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nate17
8 Point
Registered: 08/06/09
Posts: 1154
Loc: Illinois
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How many deer were actually aged out of the total harvest ?
I doubt very many!!!!
It doesn't really matter as long as you have a random, non biased sample.
Judging from recurves numbers, i'd say thats more than plenty.
If you want to see this number climb, make an extra effort to take your deer to a check station you know TWRA is at. If you dont know one, give your region a call, im sure they would be more than happy to provide you with a list.
Edited by nate17 (01/04/10 07:47 PM)
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#1708120 - 01/05/10 08:32 AM
Re: TWRA graphs
[Re: Yodel Dog]
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AlanP
TWRA Biologist
8 Point
Registered: 10/02/02
Posts: 2483
Loc: Tennessee
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It is surprising to me that this year with the increase in buck tags that the 1.5 year old harvest has not increased... You aren't the only one who's surprised! And the fact it looks like we've killed the oldest class of bucks ever in TN-- after raising the limit--is a head-scratcher to say the least. It could have a lot to do with the way the data was collected. How many days a year is TWRA aging bucks at check-in stations? What period of the season is this aging being done? I understand the whole idea of "sampling", but there's no way this data is accurate.
I'm curious... Why do you believe "there's no way this data is accurate"?
_________________________
If you don't look at the teeth, you're guessing at the age.
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#1708159 - 01/05/10 08:49 AM
Re: TWRA graphs
[Re: AlanP]
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Yodel Dog
8 Point
Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 1087
Loc: Mid Tn
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It is surprising to me that this year with the increase in buck tags that the 1.5 year old harvest has not increased... You aren't the only one who's surprised! And the fact it looks like we've killed the oldest class of bucks ever in TN-- after raising the limit--is a head-scratcher to say the least. It could have a lot to do with the way the data was collected. How many days a year is TWRA aging bucks at check-in stations? What period of the season is this aging being done? I understand the whole idea of "sampling", but there's no way this data is accurate. I'm curious... Why do you believe "there's no way this data is accurate"?
Data is only as conclusive as the method used to collect the data and the amount of data. Data collection on a massive scale will give you a clearer picture of what is going on than just a little data collected.....
I'm not saying how far off your numbers are, all I'm saying is they are not accurate unless you age every buck harvested, which we both know is not possible.
Edited by Yodel Dog (01/05/10 08:52 AM)
_________________________
"...Shooting a deer is like shooting a cow..." Phil Robertson
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#1708172 - 01/05/10 08:53 AM
Re: TWRA graphs
[Re: Yodel Dog]
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tndrbstr
16 Point
Registered: 10/06/05
Posts: 12157
Loc: knox co tn
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Data is only as conclusive as the method used to collect the data and the amount of data. Data collection on a massive scale will give you a clearer picture of what is going on than just a little data collected.....
BSK stated a clearer picture...not necessarily a differant picture...
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