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#1339485 - 05/24/09 09:14 PM Re: What says TWRA about this... [Re: ]
CopperHead77
12 Point


Registered: 08/20/07
Posts: 6754
Loc: Hickman Co.

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 Originally Posted By: deerlawyer
4, i am sure this eludes you, but to me "quality" in a turkey hunt would include lots of mature birds and lots of good gobbling. in case you didn't know, the two go together. so, listen closely, to manage for that you would protect the jakes and hens, because the jakes become toms. i know this is really complicated but i don't mind explaining it for you.


WOW.......thats..ahhhhh nevermind \:\)
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#1339588 - 05/24/09 10:08 PM Re: What says TWRA about this... [Re: ]
smstone22
16 Point


Registered: 01/11/04
Posts: 16862
Loc: Allardt, TN

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 Originally Posted By: bsl
 Originally Posted By: stik
i hunt a large tract of public land in morgan co. :X several years ago it was nothing to hear 5 or 6 gobblers every morning. now most mornings you hear none. to my knowledge(very few people hunt this place and we all pretty much know each other) there have been a grand total of 7 turkeys killed off this place since i started hunting it(15+ yrs ago). where did all these turkeys go? it wasn't hunters.



That is what I have been try to tell people but they still think it is the 4 bird limit.The hatch has been down(until last year)the turkey pop. is down because of that.There were a lot of jakes killed this year because of the good hatch and know they are saying we killed to many jakes.We just need several good years of hatches in a row and everyone will shut up about the turkey.


BSL, if that is the case then why isnt Wayne County KY showing the same results we are? Are they having good hatches up there just a few miles away while we are having crappy hatches? \:D I just want to reiterate this again, anytime you take over %30 of your standing population of male birds, it is not good for the population, great hatch or not. OR maybe those Wayne County hunters are just superior turkey hunters compared to us \:D


Edited by steven stone (05/24/09 10:18 PM)
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#1339654 - 05/24/09 11:01 PM Re: What says TWRA about this... [Re: ky doublelung]
buckdead
8 Point


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2275
Loc: southern middle tn

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 Originally Posted By: ky doublelung
Turkeys have been talking to the deer about the better dirt!


finally a reasonable explanation. lol.
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#1341081 - 05/26/09 07:05 AM Re: What says TWRA about this... [Re: buckdead]
102
10 Point


Registered: 08/01/02
Posts: 4021
Loc: Tennessee

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captain hook,
I have read post after ridiculoua post written by you. Your allegations that there has been a major die off in turkey populations, amoung other things, have NO FACT BASIS.
You are only arriving at your conclusions based on a few hunts in a comparitively small portion of the entire state. I seriously doubt you have either the profession, or the funding to make management decisions for YOUR county, let alone Unit B or the entire state.

You are entitiled to your opinion on what you think may have happened to turkey populations. Or what may happen to deer populations but MAKE NO MISTAKE...it is OPINION ONLY! Not based on scientific data gathered by paid professionals.

On the one hand people say there are Jakes being killed in record numbers, yet you say there must have been a "gap" in the population. Hmmmmmmm!!!

I say this to set the record straight. You are a relative newcomer to our state. I have been here for 45 plus years. IMO...TWRA does an outstanding job with what they have. I am not happy with everything...but then, I am happy with most!

102
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#1342138 - 05/26/09 04:12 PM Re: What says TWRA about this... [Re: ]
102
10 Point


Registered: 08/01/02
Posts: 4021
Loc: Tennessee

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Captain Hook,
Ditto for me with the following edits,

A few hunts???? You do realize that I am not just a once a month hunter, don't you? I spent 35-40 days in the woods during TN's turkey season this year. And pretty much the same number over 20 seasons, and have seen the numbers of mature gobblers where I hunt rise and fall (cyclically) over the years. Now as I have said before, I do not think hunting pressure is to blame for what I personally am experiencing, as I hunt very remote places, where quite simply folks are too lazy to get to with any frequency. I did call in a pile of birds for others in TN this year however.

So no I am not basing anything on a few hunts or years. And the fact is that the number of harvested birds has decreased...and increased, depending on a number of factors, in the last seasons.

I also,do have the profession in a way, with an undergrad degree in Forestry and Wildlife Management, and worked on numerous research projects while in school with turkeys/deer in the state of Tn. (Tn. Division of Forestry, Prentice Cooper WMA. I also, consult a few large hunting parcels in the state of Tenn. on proper management of everything from habitat to wildlife harvests, so for your understanding I too, have some background in this stuff.

Many paid professionals don't know jack about anything, while others know a ton.

Jakes were killed this year in high numbers, too dang high IMO, a record? I have no idea on that, but every jake that gets killed is one less mature bird possibly to be in the flock the next year. SO WHAT?

"The population gap isn't in jakes, the population gap is in mature birds, hens and I gobblers I suspect based on mine and others experiences. I also clearly stated this as well."

Again...no proof, just idle speculation and SO WHAT?

BTW, I have 27 years of hard core whitetail and Eastern Wild Turkey behavioral study. With STRONG emphasis on habitat, nutritional, and breeding behavior.

I know enough to emphatically state the following, "I can surmise, based on my years of study, that wildlife populations run through cycles. Highs and lows, if you will. THe cycles may be VERY benign in parameter. With triggers almost impossible to detect. Indeed, there may be so many factors contributing to a low, or high, that by the time it is realized, has long since deminished. While other "trigger factors" are as obvious as a mast crop failure and hard, long, snowy winter. To suggest that an actual "trend" is occurring with relative little data within a broad basis (large area of the state) is preposterous. And should not be taken seriously."
Granted, Therre probably will always be areas of ANY state that may need a reduction in a bag limit from time to time, but nature WILL take care of itself over time.

I find it amusing, that ANYONE on this forum, actually considers that hunters (so small in success rates/and fewer all the time in numbers anyway) have much affect at all on ANY population of animals.

102


Edited by 102 (05/26/09 04:13 PM)
_________________________
God, Family, Job, Bowhunting
Luck is where Opportunity and Preparation MEET!
When in doubt...back out!
SCAPAS.stay calm and pick a spot.

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#1342375 - 05/26/09 06:11 PM Re: What says TWRA about this... [Re: ]
102
10 Point


Registered: 08/01/02
Posts: 4021
Loc: Tennessee

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Not a practical argumant at all and you KNOW it!

It is a cycle!

I doubt populations have varied that much anyway!

102
_________________________
God, Family, Job, Bowhunting
Luck is where Opportunity and Preparation MEET!
When in doubt...back out!
SCAPAS.stay calm and pick a spot.

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#1342553 - 05/26/09 07:37 PM Re: What says TWRA about this... [Re: 102]
RS
8 Point


Registered: 01/24/02
Posts: 1280
Loc: Smithville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: 102
Not a practical argumant at all and you KNOW it!

It is a cycle!

I doubt populations have varied that much anyway!

102


No 102, it is a totally practical argument........if the 500 acres had a dome around it and turkeys could not come and go from surrounding areas.

captain hook, you complained all through this years season about walking miles and miles and not hearing or seeing birds in East TN, but yet you state above that you "called in a pile of birds in East TN for other hunters". So, where did this magical pile of birds come from?

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#1344124 - 05/27/09 05:30 PM Re: What says TWRA about this... [Re: ]
Huntaholic
8 Point


Registered: 10/22/00
Posts: 2134
Loc: Baxter, TN. U.S.A.

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Some of yall say its a cycle, in 25 years of hunting turkeys, I say its a wave. Once the wave passes I have NEVER seen it build back up to the levels it once was, PERIOD. 4 is too many. For those that say we as hunters have little to no impact, why dont you put up or shut up. ;\) Invite me, captain hook, and a couple more close friends I know to come hunt your place next spring. If we cant impact your population then I will give you my places to hunt for the next 3 years. Im growing tired of armchair turkey slayers who read well yet have little if any practical experience.
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#1344132 - 05/27/09 05:45 PM Re: What says TWRA about this... [Re: Huntaholic]
4onaside
12 Point


Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 5105
Loc: Jackson,Tn

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 Originally Posted By: Huntaholic
Some of yall say its a cycle, in 25 years of hunting turkeys, I say its a wave. Once the wave passes I have NEVER seen it build back up to the levels it once was, PERIOD. 4 is too many. For those that say we as hunters have little to no impact, why dont you put up or shut up. ;\) Invite me, captain hook, and a couple more close friends I know to come hunt your place next spring. If we cant impact your population then I will give you my places to hunt for the next 3 years. Im growing tired of armchair turkey slayers who read well yet have little if any practical experience.
If 4 is too many for you then DON'T SHOOT 4. This whole deal appears to be a dog chasing his tail deal, round and round and round. But it seems to me that the people who are making the most noise about 4 being too many will tell you in a flash that they shoot 4. That in itself is a head scratcher. Why should the state cut the limit if all of you "too many" people don't practice what you preach? And your offer is .......well, never mind. My turkeys are for me. I have a decent population for me! Impact your own turkeys, or not. I can handle my own thank you. And if you are "growing tired of armchair turkey slayers" then quit reading the stuff. What I'm growing tired of people hundreds of miles from my place trying to tell me what's best for me. That is beltway liberal stuff all the way. In fact, I think that I will follow my own suggestion and quit reading this crap. LOL
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#1344587 - 05/27/09 09:21 PM Re: What says TWRA about this... [Re: Huntaholic]
RS
8 Point


Registered: 01/24/02
Posts: 1280
Loc: Smithville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: Huntaholic
Some of yall say its a cycle, in 25 years of hunting turkeys, I say its a wave. Once the wave passes I have NEVER seen it build back up to the levels it once was, PERIOD. 4 is too many. For those that say we as hunters have little to no impact, why dont you put up or shut up. ;\)


Huntaholic, based on your quotes above, I'm just interested in knowing when was the last time you didn't kill the 4-bird limit in Tennessee?

The typical answer for those that complain yet kill the limit every year is usually "I spread my kills out over several farms". If you think 4 is too many, then 4 is too many period. Don't make excuses and complain when you continue kill the limit every year.


Edited by RS (05/27/09 09:28 PM)

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