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#1339976 - 05/25/09 10:10 AM Re: Catch and Release [Re: ]
Football Hunter
Non-Typical


Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 25433
Loc: Wilson Co/Perry Co

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take it easy Maxd,just dont like to eat bass myself
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#1339982 - 05/25/09 10:14 AM Re: Catch and Release [Re: ]
gil1
12 Point


Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 6339
Loc: Nashville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: tndrbstr
 Originally Posted By: gil1
Speaking of, I'm getting hitched and honeymooning (bonefishing) in July.


HAHA! \:D ,..Congratulations again Gil,, I've heard it called everything now!

Now that right there's funny, don't care who ya are! \:D
_________________________
It is not the killing ...; it is the contest of skill and cunning. The true hunter counts his achievement in proportion to the effort involved and the fairness of the sport.

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#1339987 - 05/25/09 10:17 AM Re: Catch and Release [Re: Football Hunter]
madMax
4 Point


Registered: 04/09/08
Posts: 130
Loc: Middle TN

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 Originally Posted By: Football Hunter
take it easy Maxd,just dont like to eat bass myself


Sorry Hunter, not lashing out at you - just throwing my 2 pennies at you... or maybe its about 20 cents... Or maybe just gas on the fire? Who knows where this thread is headed?? \:o

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#1339999 - 05/25/09 10:23 AM Re: Catch and Release [Re: Tubakka]
gil1
12 Point


Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 6339
Loc: Nashville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: Tubakka
I had this WHOLE thing typed up and then decided...

...no...

...it had some real gems in it too Gil. You'd have loved it. XOXO

"Tartar Sauce" h aha...I'm getting a shirt made.

...I'll leave it at this. I believe in catch-and-release as a management tool and a concept to be practiced and regarded, not as an absolute and a life-style choice. Alot of people use it almost like some demographics do their sexual orientation...it becomes almost an identity to them, more than just a practice of their character. And it most certainly shouldn't be a line of segregation between folks utilizing a resource, especially when the party inciting judgment upon another isn't even utilizing the same layer of the resource. Do I believe catch-and-release is a good practice? Of course. Do I believe that there is this utopian fishery in artificially augmented or created fisheries that exists if every single fish is release in a PUT-GROW-AND-TAKE fishery? No. And is it not a beautiful thing to HAVE the luxury of a fishery that is built to take the harvest of some nice fish for the table?


You're scaring me, Tubbs. I actually agree.
But I realize that those are generalizations, and we have an ocean of differences to cross.

There are some Utopias out there, but they ain't public, they ain't cheap, and they ain't Put-Grow-And-Take. I know it would never happen, but my fantasy would be just to have one C&R fishery. Let the eaters have all the rest.

Our society would never pay to manage something publicly where the only thing we take out of it is a fun experience. We have to take from the resource, or we can't support it. That's not wrong at all - like BW said, the resource was put there for us to take it. I just wish we could have one of the thousands out there that we could manage solely for entertainment value.
_________________________
It is not the killing ...; it is the contest of skill and cunning. The true hunter counts his achievement in proportion to the effort involved and the fairness of the sport.

Dr. Saxton Pope

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#1340014 - 05/25/09 10:31 AM Re: Catch and Release [Re: gil1]
bob
4 Point


Registered: 04/18/08
Posts: 116
Loc: tn

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I’ve been doing this since I was old enough to cast. I’ve caught them all, and eaten them all. I like White Bass, LM Bass, Crappie, Bluegill, Redeye, Black Perch, Rainbow Trout over 15” and under 20”, Striper, Hybrids, Walleye, Sauger, and perhaps most of all smaller blue Cats from clean waters, for the table. I will eat any of these fish if the mood hits while I’m deciding whether they live or die after biting my hook.

My argument here is about broadcasting on a heavily viewed forum the Harvest of fish, complete with exact location, exact “idiot proof” technique, and the constant encouragement for others to join in on the carnage. There are a lot of unscrupulous people who don’t give a rats arse about a fishery, haven’t paid their dues, don’t respect what TWRA’s mission is, and don’t respect the sport. Getting on a forum and making it easy for those folks is out right ignorance and shows how green and immature the people who do it are.


If a group of people showed up on a great fishery and started harvesting limits and then went to every board in the region, and out of the region, and posted exact data like has been posted here. Pretty soon the crowds start showing up and growing exponentially every weekend until you can’t fish your beloved area without getting pissed off.


Tubs, watch some of the true Greats of the sport, Dahlberg, Pallet, Linder, Dance, etc. Notice they don’t volunteer a lot those great local locations. You’re a good fisherman, I’ll give you that but it’s your disdain for others “fly guys” that I think makes you post what you post. Or maybe you think you discovered something nobody else knew about... Well truth is everybody else was enjoying it long before you showed up. Your just the loud mouth that told everybody else about while ringing the diner bell.
You’re evolving as an angler. A lot of the so called “elitist”, what ever that’s supposed to mean, went through the same evolution. Once you’ve seen a few of your favorite fishing locations get fished out and never return to the grandeur you remember. Or you drive for several hours to your favorite honey hole only to find the ramp full of trailers and five boats on your favorite spot, then maybe you’ll understand. Enjoy yourself tell everyone what you catch then lie like hell about where you caught it and what you caught it on. Lying is perhaps the most valuable lesson a fisherman needs to learn.


Maybe not be the rant you were looking for but there it is.


Edited by bob (05/25/09 10:48 AM)

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#1340124 - 05/25/09 11:59 AM Re: Catch and Release [Re: bob]
Tubakka
6 Point


Registered: 12/19/07
Posts: 782
Loc: Tennessee

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I've not ever been against ALL fly guys, dude. Some of them are cool guys, normally the ones that are willing to put it down and go use other tackle when it calls for other species and stuff. I was just amazed when I came down here, having never fished for trout before, and being told this absolute sack of crap by the guys who were supposed to know the most about it [things like "20 inch fish are rare, that's a trophy...can't catch fish on 2 generators...], and then running into the old codgers down at the dam in their rv's showing me pictures of fish that weren't supposed to exist. No I hate to say it, not everyone has been doing what I've been doing, and not everyone as well. Some better, but not everyone does nearly as well as me and my posse. That's not bragging; we've put in some time to learn the locations. We hit high percentage spots and know where to go. I didn't see anyone else out there fishing, let alone catching fish under the 20,000 cfs. You can say what you want and hate me all you want, I work my butt off out there. I have alot to learn, but I'm not sitting stagnant happy throwing a dry fly into 6 inches of water when there are 15-20-30-and maybe even 40 pound fish out there to be caught.

I was recently out on Butler chain in FL with a group of friends and we pulled up to Tiger Woods house. Un freakin' believable...and one of the guys in the group makes a comment how no one should have that much money. I turned to him and said "Oh, so you want everyone to be poor like you?..." What he was saying was...he didn't want anyone to have more than what he had. He wanted everyone on his level. He didn't want to share. What I was saying was, if no one else has it, then who does? We have no economy if there aren't people with inordinate amounts of money, and everytime that guy decides to build a new addition to his home, he helps put food on the table for 20-30 more people.

So, I guess you don't WANT people utilizing this fishery hmmm? getting the max out of it? Because I can tell you, it's not being utilized even now. Not even close. I doubt any of these tailraces are. But the more they are, these high profile well stocked tailraces anyway, the more fish go into them, the more money is generated by it, and the better the ailing TWRA can equip them to supply the demand upon them, and perhaps even research in how to improve them further. But if only a small group of fishermen keep their lips closed on it, even though they can selfishly brood over it, the more their fishery will diminish. It takes money to support these fisheries, and if a whole other level of angling is opened up to people on these bodies of water that allows people to utilize them in today's economic times without spending 60 bucks an hour LEARNING HOW TO CAST and getting brand new equipment, where they can go out with a walmart set up and have a shot at a nice fish, how can that be interpreted as anything but beneficial to it? They're buying trout stamps, baits, gas, food, etc...

In this instance, we're dealing with a mitigation trout fishery stocked to the gills, no pun intended, with trout on a monthly basis, due to the specific purchase of a trout stamp. Ergo, the more people you get going to the river, BUYING that stamp, and investing in the resource, the better it is for the resource itself. The Caney fork is a playground for Nashville and has been for quite some time apparently. I didn't let any cat out of any bag.

I will however share info on how to catch fish. Here's why I get a little peeved at the dichotomy between tactics...someone could get on here and give fly fishing instructions, and gee that'd be swell. I come on and help people who may want to get started in fishing in a method that doesn't take a 12 week study course just to learn how to cast, which is virtually irrelevant to catching fish whatsoever, just the method of locomotion to your presentation...and I get rapped. Sorry that I like to actually report things on a fishing report forum. I hate to tell this you BOB, but it's not a total "idiot proof" tactic. I've taken fish up to 28.5" wading dude...wading. And I wasn't hitting random spots or just sitting in line with 30 other guys at the dam run flailing around...I had literally swam upstream to a spot in late Feb and picked my spot and stuck with it. I apply knowledge learned from studying movements of fish in other environments to the river, and alot of them crossover. I assure you, just because I throw jerkbaits doesn't mean I'm some idiot. They're just the tool. I'm not some master angler, but it gets under my skin when you come on here and attack my abilities like that, when I can't seem to recall the last time you've done anything but criticize on a forum that is supposed to be meant for fishing reports.

My buddies and I are out there all the time with other guys seemingly doing just what we're doing, and more often than not we're the ones back at the ramp sharing the stories and the pics. I feel like I can say that because we spend alot of time and effort out there. Just because I don't write latigo when I cast doesn't mean anything. Really, so put that stick down. It gets old.

I can tell you this...if I had the time and the money and really wanted to, I could learn how to cast fly tackle and once I did, I'd be catching "big" browns just like now, because it's the knowledge that catches the fish, not the tackle. I could take big sculpin and shad patterns and do just what I do now...but I just don't want to. Why go through that trouble just to prove a point? WHY spend that money and take that time just to learn how to get my bait from point A to point B? It offers me no advantages in the fish I pursue, and would actually make some angling incredibly more difficult. I've heard these guys complain about throwing weighted lines and heavy streamers. I'll stick with my spinning. I'd rather learn how to get the biggest fish I can on the most efficient means. Fly fishing is a highly effective tactic in certain areas and at certain times, but this entire new cult of fishing that it's become, where people who fish with other tactics are "beneath" those that flyfish, is absolutely absurd. And I will continue to speak out against that mindset. It's never been the tactic that got under my skin; it was that attitude. The one you show me on this forum again and again.

You keep saying how this fishery is being fished out. I've heard it many times now over the past 2 years I've fished it [well, being in Florida nearly a full year of one of those...I guess year] and I heard attack after attack on people who spin fished and kept the occasional trout and how it was "destroying the fishery" and how "there were no big browns left". Our average now is 2 browns a trip over 20", and we're getting better. Most of the time those fish are 22-24" or better. In fact, Shore just called me from the river and he has already gotten 2 over 20" 2 hours into the trip, and had a giant on. I'm not saying this to brag, but when assessing a recreational fishery, you must assess it by the how well recreational anglers are doing. We spend a decent amount of time on the river under a variety of conditions and I feel our results are more valid than one run with a shocking boat and a few guys from nashville that fish it on falling water a couple times a month. No offense, but let's get real here.

That utopian river already exists...and all the catch and release in the world wouldn't make it any better for those who don't change their tactics. The definition of insanity is to do the same thing and expect different results. There are giant fish in these rivers under your noses; IGNORANCE is what protects them from people, that and a little bit of elbow grease and time on the water. I've seen lots of guys just go out and toss jerkbaits, You might get a few fish, but 60% of it at least is location, location, location. Gil keeps talking about these pay to play rivers...those trophy fish in there don't have a bunch of stockers feeding them and 20-30 foot holes to dwell in and the option of ducking down when the generation turns off, and they are forced to diet on macros and other smaller bites because that's all they have for the most part. That is why there are big fish in there that guys can catch...it's not the catch and release...it's the small body close proximity and starving trophy fish. When the browns in the Caney have 8-12" rainbows and brookies to feed on, why the hell would they come up in 6 inches of water with their back showing out on falling water to slurp a midge? It doesn't make biological sense. I'm not saying it never happens, but the bulk of the time in these tailraces environments, that's not how they're doing this. Especially not these giants. Do the homework and you'd see that.

Last year, I had a friend that could barely cast a reel whatsoever, but he saw some of the fish I was catching and just chomping at the bit to go. So I took him and we got set up with a decent spinning outfit and some baits. He went a couple times wading and did not do too well. Throwing medium sized jerkbaits which can be killer on the shoals wading, especially at dusk. Big fish. So I took him out, and even on spinning this guy was having trouble making 30-40 foot casts, but I positioned the boat close to shore and gave him priority on some good spots, and by the end of the day, he had a 23.5" brown to his hands. not a giant, but is there not something cool about being able to take someone out on their first trip and have them tie into a fish like that? He's hooked for life...and is planning on buying a boat and going all out. It would've taken this guy a year before he couldv'e even begun to throw a fly of any sort. Let alone catch any fish i'd bet because he wouldn't have been able to get it out there. Is there not something really cool about that? Yet you continue to slam it. But hey, everytime a child picks up a fly rod, a brookie gets its spots or something.




Edited by Tubakka (05/25/09 11:59 AM)

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#1340128 - 05/25/09 12:01 PM Re: Catch and Release [Re: Tubakka]
Tubakka
6 Point


Registered: 12/19/07
Posts: 782
Loc: Tennessee

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HOLY COW~ I just published that after just typing out my thoughts nonstop and looked back...and it's like I'm staring into the porcelain at a 15 pound turd, or should I say 6.5 Kouriks. Absolute bewilderment, with a pinch of accomplishment...that came out of me? haha.
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#1340143 - 05/25/09 12:07 PM Re: Catch and Release [Re: madMax]
Tubakka
6 Point


Registered: 12/19/07
Posts: 782
Loc: Tennessee

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 Originally Posted By: MaxD
[quote=bowriter]
From what I understand C&R was born mainly from 2 camps: Bass Tourney guys and Trout Enthusiasts/Purists. Look years later at the results... young anglers who will grow to believe eating bass and trout is a sin. Its almost a brainwashing effect. I know that C&R is critical for managing fisheries and of course regs have been in place for decades nationwide but I'm talking about the C&R mentality that exists on a higher level

The argument is "let em grow so we can all catch trophies". Who decides whats a trophy? Who even invented the concept of "sport fish"? Why does it consume some ppl so much that they look down on others? I enjoy the whole fishing experience - being on or in the water, taking in my surroundings, catching the fish, and sometimes YES - eating my catch.


Dude Max D. I think that is the best thing I've ever heard said on this forum concerning this. I wish I had said it. Amen brother...that is what I have been getting at. The catch and release MENTALITY...we have canonized a renewable resource. It's gone from respect to religion. That is the danger of all this. This Montague and Capulet crap is absurd.



Edited by Tubakka (05/25/09 12:28 PM)

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#1340202 - 05/25/09 12:41 PM Re: Catch and Release [Re: Tubakka]
rsimms
10 Point


Registered: 09/08/02
Posts: 2676
Loc: Chattanooga, TN

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 Originally Posted By: Tubakka
HOLY COW~ I just published that after just typing out my thoughts nonstop and looked back...and it's like I'm staring into the porcelain at a 15 pound turd, or should I say 6.5 Kouriks. Absolute bewilderment, with a pinch of accomplishment...that came out of me? haha.


I'm glad you followed up on yourself before I had a chance to.

I thought I was being "wordy!" \:o
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#1340264 - 05/25/09 01:22 PM Re: Catch and Release [Re: gil1]
bowriter
Non-Typical


Registered: 08/31/02
Posts: 41741
Loc: Lebanon,TN USA

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 Originally Posted By: gil1
 Originally Posted By: bowriter

But Gill-As much as I revere a smallmouth, if there was only one left in the world and I caught it---if I was hungry for fish...I'd eat it.

(just broke three major rules of journalism punctuation.)


4 - You misspelled my name. \:D


 Originally Posted By: bowriter
So a bass is more exalted than a lowly catfish or a bream or a trout? Then you would agree we should not hunt elk? Ever caught a tarpon or a big carp?

You simply cannot, in my view put one species of fish above another. Gil loves to catch skipjacks. He dotes on carp fishing and now he has started shooting arrows at them. That is truly utilizing the resource.


True, but I think we do anyway. Folks toss whitefish on the bank out west because they want more trout. We naturally choose the better fighter or the better tasting or the better looking. I am not a snob about looks (if you had seen some of my old firlfriends, you'd agree).


4 - You misspelled my name. \:D

LMAO- No...you missed the pun.
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