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#1338987 - 05/24/09 11:23 AM Catch and Release
gil1
12 Point


Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 6319
Loc: Nashville, TN

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\:D \:D \:D \:D

We haven't had a good screaming match in a while. You can't really discuss abortion or God or Ford vs. Chevy or broadheads vs. mechanicals on this forum, so I figured catch and release would do.

Instead of dissing the other side for what they believe, I'd love to hear specific reasons for your mentality on the subject. I don't give a crap what you think about your neighbor's methodologies. What makes you tick and why?

Maybe I'll chime in later with more of my personal thoughts, but there's a huge gray area for me. I eat plenty of fish I catch and throw back many more. It depends on the species and its habitat. For instance, I throw all smallies back but eat some largemouth if a pond needs the management. I eat one trout per year (on an annual camping trip) and throw hundreds per year back, so there's no clear line.

As I've said many times here before, I usually value a fish more for the pleasure I receive catching it than eating it. But I still kill crappie, bluegill, sea trout, etc. because I believe the resource can withstand the harvest.

I write about my personal C&R in fly fishing articles and magazines all the time, but I can't write about my beliefs in a hook and bullet magazine for fear of losing the job. I'd like to be able to present an unbiased commentary representing both sides of the coin.

I'd love to hear some points of view on the contoversial subject.
_________________________
It is not the killing ...; it is the contest of skill and cunning. The true hunter counts his achievement in proportion to the effort involved and the fairness of the sport.

Dr. Saxton Pope

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#1339014 - 05/24/09 11:41 AM Re: Catch and Release [Re: gil1]
tink69
8 Point


Registered: 10/07/04
Posts: 1832
Loc: belvidere

Offline
My CPR "catch photo release" methods are like when deer hunting...some days I do... some days I don't! I have close relatives that just hates that anyone keeps any fish.Me some days I keep my limit and others I just toss them back. I look @ it like this after paying $136 for TN lic and $46 for AL lic and all the boat tune ups, lures,and gas i'll keep any legal fish that I want!
_________________________
way down in the bayou swamp of belvidere

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#1339019 - 05/24/09 11:51 AM Re: Catch and Release [Re: tink69]
stik
TnDeer Old Timer
18 Point


Registered: 03/12/99
Posts: 20335
Loc: lenoir city,tn

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legal crappies rarely get thrown back and i'll keep a mess of trout a couple of times a year. those are the only ones i eat so everything else gets released.
_________________________
experienced hunters know its not just a bushy white tail, its a big middle finger.

nothing makes a fish bigger than almost being caught


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#1339059 - 05/24/09 12:40 PM Re: Catch and Release [Re: stik]
Kirk Moderator
Cerebral Assassin
16 Point


Registered: 08/07/01
Posts: 10142
Loc: Cleveland, TN USA

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I have only kept one fish in freshwater in the whole time I have been fishing. It was a 6.11 Largemouth I kept and had mounted.
All the rest have been released. I don't like fish so it is easy for me to throw them back.

Deep Sea I have kept several and gave them away to friends and neighbors. It's sort of hard to release one that has been gaffed by a deck hand. I tell them to throw them back but they never do unless they over the limit. I guess they sell what the charter customers don't take home.

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#1339071 - 05/24/09 12:51 PM Re: Catch and Release [Re: stik]
Kimberman
10 Point


Registered: 10/30/05
Posts: 3463
Loc: Knoxville

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It depends on where I am fishing. I personally won't eat fish out of certain lakes in East Tennessee.(Loudon, Melton Hill,and Watts Bar come to mind) I will only eat legal sized crappie, big bluegill, or walleye out of lakes like the upper end of Tellico, Dale Hollow, or Norris. Now if I go crappie fishing or trout fising with someone who wants to keep fish, I am more than happy help out with a limit, unless its bass. I have been fishing for over 20 years and have never kept a bass, and I could never bring myself to eat a smallmouth unless I had to feed my starving family. The only time I will keep trout is if I am camping at Citico ot Tellico river, and they get eaten on the trip. I only have 1 fish mounted, and its a 42 lb Barracuda that I caught on my honeymoon that the guide gaffed to get in the boat, so I figured what the heck, catch and release is out the window. I have pics of a 6lb smallmouth that I released, and that works just as well as a mount in my mind, plus I released a fish with some good genes so maybe one day I can catch its kids!
_________________________
So many smallmouth, so little time.

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#1339072 - 05/24/09 12:51 PM Re: Catch and Release [Re: Kirk]
keith35611
4 Point


Registered: 05/12/06
Posts: 243
Loc: Athens,AL

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If I wanna eat them I keep them.If not i throw them back.That goes for any species.Sometimes I just am not in the mood to clean fish,but love to go,just to get out.
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#1339075 - 05/24/09 12:52 PM Re: Catch and Release [Re: Kirk]
bigluresonly
6 Point


Registered: 04/09/08
Posts: 725
Loc: Cookeville

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If i catch a legal fish and plan to eat it fresh that night or the next day i will keep it and do just that. Other than that I release them to be caught again. I might eat more of them if I was'nt just plain ole to lazy to clean them.
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#1339103 - 05/24/09 01:22 PM Re: Catch and Release [Re: stik]
4onaside
12 Point


Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 5070
Loc: Jackson,Tn

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I still catch a bunch of fish, but I rarely keep or clean any, although I have done so a million times in my life, just too lazy in recent times. Besides, if I want fish to eat,I go to Capt D's or any restaurant that sells Belzoni catfish. Like I said, lazy. However, if you're inviting me over, don't particularly like trout, but any of the sunfish are very good, Largemouths, crappies,bluegills, etc.
_________________________
Lord, keep your arm around my shoulders and your hand over my mouth


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#1339133 - 05/24/09 02:16 PM Re: Catch and Release [Re: gil1]
B.D.
8 Point


Registered: 03/24/08
Posts: 1484
Loc: Hendersonville TN

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Gil, I don't mind keeping some fish to eat now and then, but if I catch you bowfishing where I fly fish for carp, you will get a beating. \:o

bd

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#1339171 - 05/24/09 02:58 PM Re: Catch and Release [Re: B.D.]
gil1
12 Point


Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 6319
Loc: Nashville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: Brian Dunigan
Gil, I don't mind keeping some fish to eat now and then, but if I catch you bowfishing where I fly fish for carp, you will get a beating. \:o

bd


I may end up beating my own butt for that transgression! I'm still not good with it unless I can find someone to use or eat them. I may hunt your carp honeyholes but would never bloody the water in my carp spots! \:D

Speaking of, I'm getting hitched and honeymooning (bonefishing) in July. I may only get one carp outing in during the big fly carpin' tournament, so you better step up to the plate and have a good showing this year. Some folks will be gunning for you, and Ive got no pressure to even be competitive this year.
_________________________
It is not the killing ...; it is the contest of skill and cunning. The true hunter counts his achievement in proportion to the effort involved and the fairness of the sport.

Dr. Saxton Pope

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#1339198 - 05/24/09 03:28 PM Re: Catch and Release [Re: gil1]
RUGER Administrator
Mouse Killa
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Registered: 11/19/99
Posts: 4104340
Loc: TN

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I throw them back because I hate to clean fish.
_________________________
Youth is wasted on the young.

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#1339212 - 05/24/09 04:03 PM Re: Catch and Release [Re: RUGER]
bowriter
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Registered: 08/31/02
Posts: 41520
Loc: Lebanon,TN USA

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I am very much in favor of catch or release. But only if the regulations make sense. I eat fish. I like to eat fish. I care nothing about eating trout so use whatever regs you want on them are fine with me.

But I eat bass. Make me throw back a 14.5 inch bass and I will keep an 18' bass to eat. I am going to eat bass. I am going to eat fish.

Certainly, the catching is the thrill. But I eat fish. I am a two-legged Comorant when it comes to fish. The currant length limits make me throw back fish I should eat and eat fish I should throw back. I don't want to eat a four pound smallmouth.

But sautede in white wine they are delicious.

The creel limit is plenty sufficient to protect the various species. When will TN fish managers realize WE EAT FISH DOWN HERE! Let me keep five 13" fish and those 56 packages in my freezer would be from TN, not AL.

Oh man. I feel so much better. I'm going to go start the deep fryer and change my shorts, now.
_________________________

Constipation has ruined many a good day. Not as many as stupidity, though.

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#1339217 - 05/24/09 04:22 PM Re: Catch and Release [Re: bowriter]
4onaside
12 Point


Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 5070
Loc: Jackson,Tn

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Gil even though you published a disclaimer up front, I can't imagine that some of our elitist brethern have not jumped in with a sermon about how those folks who keep them shouldn't. The forum has its share of holier than thou guys. I can't believe that they haven't risen to the fly. Must be the presentation!
_________________________
Lord, keep your arm around my shoulders and your hand over my mouth


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#1339222 - 05/24/09 04:36 PM Re: Catch and Release [Re: bowriter]
tink69
8 Point


Registered: 10/07/04
Posts: 1832
Loc: belvidere

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 Originally Posted By: bowriter
I am very much in favor of catch or release. But only if the regulations make sense. I eat fish. I like to eat fish. I care nothing about eating trout so use whatever regs you want on them are fine with me.

But I eat bass. Make me throw back a 14.5 inch bass and I will keep an 18' bass to eat. I am going to eat bass. I am going to eat fish.

Certainly, the catching is the thrill. But I eat fish. I am a two-legged Comorant when it comes to fish. The currant length limits make me throw back fish I should eat and eat fish I should throw back. I don't want to eat a four pound smallmouth.

But sautede in white wine they are delicious.

The creel limit is plenty sufficient to protect the various species. When will TN fish managers realize WE EAT FISH DOWN HERE! Let me keep five 13" fish and those 56 packages in my freezer would be from TN, not AL.

Oh man. I feel so much better. I'm going to go start the deep fryer and change my shorts, now.


Go to WOODS there isn't a size limit and you can catch many 12-15in fish in any given day.
_________________________
way down in the bayou swamp of belvidere

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#1339260 - 05/24/09 05:41 PM Re: Catch and Release [Re: gil1]
rsimms
10 Point


Registered: 09/08/02
Posts: 2631
Loc: Chattanooga, TN

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These days I rarely keep fish (for myself), except crappie. But only because I'm too lazy to cleam them.

As for my "beliefs," I see a limb and I'm going to walk right out on it.

I believe that if it is legal and you want to eat it... eat it! ... no matter the species or conditions.

With the exception of "put & take trout" it is called a "renewable resource." Biologists set creel limits at the levels they believe necessary to sustain that renewable resource based on the habitat.

Therefore I am of the opinion that every legal fish that is caught, could be kept and our fisheries would be absolutely fine and dandy.

It's like a massive aquarium... You might be able to cram 100 guppies in your 10-gallon aquarium, but 85 of them are going to die no matter how well you feed them.

Same is true on our reservoirs. They'll only support XX pounds of fish and anything you cram in there (or release) is likely to die of natural mortality. The carrying capacity of our reservoirs does vary depending upon natural vegetation, water flow, etc. But it is the existing environmental factors that dictate how many fish there are... not how many mere fishermen release.

I do not fault anyone who wants to release fish, even applaud them.

I only ask that those folks do not think less of those who don't.
_________________________
Read my book, "An Outdoor State of Mind"
http://stores.lulu.com/rsimms
"The outdoors is not just a place, it's a state of mind."
http://www.ScenicCityFishing.com

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#1339361 - 05/24/09 07:48 PM Re: Catch and Release [Re: rsimms]
Football Hunter
Non-Typical


Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 25303
Loc: Wilson Co/Perry Co

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I think its weird to keep a bass,JMO,seems like to much fun to catch em,but crappie and cats,I love em
_________________________
The best day to plant a tree,IS TODAY!

You wont know,if you dont go!


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#1339370 - 05/24/09 07:52 PM Re: Catch and Release [Re: gil1]
B.D.
8 Point


Registered: 03/24/08
Posts: 1484
Loc: Hendersonville TN

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 Originally Posted By: gil1

Speaking of, I'm getting hitched and honeymooning (bonefishing) in July. I may only get one carp outing in during the big fly carpin' tournament, so you better step up to the plate and have a good showing this year.


You may have missed that I dislocated my right shoulder in a whitewater accident a week ago. I won't know for another week whether I'm going to have to have surgery. I'm hoping I'll be back in one piece by July, but if I can't cast, I'm going to have a hard time entering.

bd

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#1339373 - 05/24/09 07:55 PM Re: Catch and Release [Re: gil1]
shopson
10 Point


Registered: 09/24/01
Posts: 4414
Loc: Greeneville

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When sauger/walleye are biting I put fish in the freezer. When crappie are biting, I put fish in the freezer. When bass are biting, I put fish in the freezer, except the 12 fillets I cleaned Wednesday. Me, the wife and son ate 5 and a half of the six largemouths I cleaned. All were 15' or larger but nothing over 3 lbs. MMM good.
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#1339393 - 05/24/09 08:13 PM Re: Catch and Release [Re: bowriter]
gil1
12 Point


Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 6319
Loc: Nashville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: bowriter
I The currant length limits make me throw back fish I should eat and eat fish I should throw back.

Although I hate to admit it, I agree. I don't understand the backwards nature of our largemouth regs.

 Originally Posted By: bowriter
IThe creel limit is plenty sufficient to protect the various species. When will TN fish managers realize WE EAT FISH DOWN HERE! Let me keep five 13" fish and those 56 packages in my freezer would be from TN, not AL.

Eat all the bluegill, crappie, cats you want and whatever you catch in AL, but don't go messin' with my smallies in TN. This is a different subject, but I really think river smallies should be C&R. I've seen overharvest wear some fine streams to nothing. It just takes so dern long for a smallie (especially in smaller streams and in some E TN streams) to mature and even reproduce.
_________________________
It is not the killing ...; it is the contest of skill and cunning. The true hunter counts his achievement in proportion to the effort involved and the fairness of the sport.

Dr. Saxton Pope

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#1339397 - 05/24/09 08:21 PM Re: Catch and Release [Re: 4onaside]
gil1
12 Point


Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 6319
Loc: Nashville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: 4onaside
Gil even though you published a disclaimer up front, I can't imagine that some of our elitist brethern have not jumped in with a sermon about how those folks who keep them shouldn't. The forum has its share of holier than thou guys. I can't believe that they haven't risen to the fly. Must be the presentation!


I was thinkin' the same thing. I wanted that Bob dude to come on and tell everyone they suck for eating fish. I was really hoping Tubbs would join in with a couple of pages about some musky fishery and then tell me I'm too stupid to catch fish anyway. You're right - I delicately lobbed the bait in there when I should have smashed it down into an explosion.

How's this?

"Those of you who kill fish, especially big ones, are not true sportsmen. Matter of fact, y'all cast like girls." Wait here's my favorite - you hear this one a lot in hunting, too -"Outdoorsmen go through stages. Those that don't let them go just haven't matured as outdoorsmen. Once they learn how to fish and hunt (like me), they will let the little bucks walk and the big feeshies swim."

That ought to get this sucker rolling! \:D
_________________________
It is not the killing ...; it is the contest of skill and cunning. The true hunter counts his achievement in proportion to the effort involved and the fairness of the sport.

Dr. Saxton Pope

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#1339401 - 05/24/09 08:29 PM Re: Catch and Release [Re: gil1]
4onaside
12 Point


Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 5070
Loc: Jackson,Tn

Offline
Now you're cookin'!
_________________________
Lord, keep your arm around my shoulders and your hand over my mouth


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#1339405 - 05/24/09 08:32 PM Re: Catch and Release [Re: rsimms]
gil1
12 Point


Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 6319
Loc: Nashville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: rsimms
It's like a massive aquarium... You might be able to cram 100 guppies in your 10-gallon aquarium, but 85 of them are going to die no matter how well you feed them.

Same is true on our reservoirs. They'll only support XX pounds of fish and anything you cram in there (or release) is likely to die of natural mortality. The carrying capacity of our reservoirs does vary depending upon natural vegetation, water flow, etc. But it is the existing environmental factors that dictate how many fish there are... not how many mere fishermen release.


I agree except...
Although a fishery can hold only a certain amount of fish, the catch and release person, just like the mature buck hunter, wants more of the older age classes to survive. We (or I should say "I") want the "quality experience" that we hear about.

The reason most private ponds ask you to toss the big fish back and eat all the little ones is so the little ones won't take up too much of that total percentage. They'll eat some of the forage momma needs to become a bruiser. Leave momma alone for us to catch over and over again, and eat all the little'uns. Let momma eat some of those little'uns too, and she'll end up being a real trophy.

Although I'm not dissing anyone for taking their share, I have no idea why someone would eat a 5 pound bass and throw the little ones back. Why some eat a 20-inch trout only to toss the 12-inchers back is equally baffling. I'd eat a 20-incher about as quick as I would eat my dog. Yes, I'm exaggerating, but the point is that the trophies are too valuable as sportsfish to eat when they can be caught over and over again.
_________________________
It is not the killing ...; it is the contest of skill and cunning. The true hunter counts his achievement in proportion to the effort involved and the fairness of the sport.

Dr. Saxton Pope

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#1339408 - 05/24/09 08:34 PM Re: Catch and Release [Re: B.D.]
gil1
12 Point


Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 6319
Loc: Nashville, TN

Offline
 Originally Posted By: Brian Dunigan
 Originally Posted By: gil1

Speaking of, I'm getting hitched and honeymooning (bonefishing) in July. I may only get one carp outing in during the big fly carpin' tournament, so you better step up to the plate and have a good showing this year.


You may have missed that I dislocated my right shoulder in a whitewater accident a week ago. I won't know for another week whether I'm going to have to have surgery. I'm hoping I'll be back in one piece by July, but if I can't cast, I'm going to have a hard time entering.

bd


I caught a bit of that, but I had no idea it was so serious. How could you be out putzing arouind during carp spring training? How could you go mess up the throwing arm when the team needs you? \:D

Hope you don't have to slice it up. You could go lefty, but I would imagine it would be tough to score as technical as carping can be. Good luck.
_________________________
It is not the killing ...; it is the contest of skill and cunning. The true hunter counts his achievement in proportion to the effort involved and the fairness of the sport.

Dr. Saxton Pope

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#1339465 - 05/24/09 09:06 PM Re: Catch and Release [Re: gil1]
smstone22
16 Point


Registered: 01/11/04
Posts: 16767
Loc: Allardt, TN

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I like KY's and I like crappie. I dont keep many at all but sometimes during the summer if I get on big schools of KY's, I will keep 10 or so out of every 50.
_________________________
-QDM=Better Deer, Better Deer Hunting
-Let Him Go, So He Can Grow

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#1339513 - 05/24/09 09:25 PM Re: Catch and Release [Re: gil1]
captain hook
10 Point


Registered: 11/20/07
Posts: 4340
Loc: Knoxville

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A gamefish is too valuable to only be caught once....Lee Wulff
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Fear Obama

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#1339598 - 05/24/09 10:16 PM Re: Catch and Release [Re: captain hook]
Tubakka
6 Point


Registered: 12/19/07
Posts: 782
Loc: Tennessee

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I had this WHOLE thing typed up and then decided...

...no...

...it had some real gems in it too Gil. You'd have loved it. XOXO

"Tartar Sauce" h aha...I'm getting a shirt made.

...I'll leave it at this. I believe in catch-and-release as a management tool and a concept to be practiced and regarded, not as an absolute and a life-style choice. Alot of people use it almost like some demographics do their sexual orientation...it becomes almost an identity to them, more than just a practice of their character. And it most certainly shouldn't be a line of segregation between folks utilizing a resource, especially when the party inciting judgment upon another isn't even utilizing the same layer of the resource. Do I believe catch-and-release is a good practice? Of course. Do I believe that there is this utopian fishery in artificially augmented or created fisheries that exists if every single fish is release in a PUT-GROW-AND-TAKE fishery? No. And is it not a beautiful thing to HAVE the luxury of a fishery that is built to take the harvest of some nice fish for the table?

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#1339733 - 05/25/09 05:42 AM Re: Catch and Release [Re: Tubakka]
bowriter
Non-Typical


Registered: 08/31/02
Posts: 41520
Loc: Lebanon,TN USA

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Oh Lord! Simms and I agree...again.

But Gill-As much as I revere a smallmouth, if there was only one left in the world and I caught it---if I was hungry for fish...I'd eat it.

(just broke three major rules of journalism punctuation.)

Now a view from the porch:

"I think its weird to keep a bass,JMO,seems like to much fun to catch em,but crappie and cats,I love em" Wrote Football Hunter.

So a bass is more exalted than a lowly catfish or a bream or a trout? Then you would agree we should not hunt elk? Ever caught a tarpon or a big carp?

You simply cannot, in my view put one species of fish above another. Gil loves to catch skipjacks. He dotes on carp fishing and now he has started shooting arrows at them. That is truly utilizing the resource.

I love to catch fish. I love to eat fish. Fish were put here to feed humans, not entertain them. I believe pesca should come full cycle. You catch them and enjoy. You eat them and enjoy. You go crap in the garden and enjoy. Then pick the maters to go with the next fish you catch...

and enjoy.
_________________________

Constipation has ruined many a good day. Not as many as stupidity, though.

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#1339750 - 05/25/09 06:33 AM Re: Catch and Release [Re: captain hook]
Radar
Non-Typical


Registered: 08/19/01
Posts: 31145
Loc: Kansas City, Mo.

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It depends on the species and the fishery . I tend to do whats best for the fishery .
_________________________

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#1339826 - 05/25/09 08:00 AM Re: Catch and Release [Re: gil1]
rsimms
10 Point


Registered: 09/08/02
Posts: 2631
Loc: Chattanooga, TN

Offline
 Originally Posted By: gil1
 Originally Posted By: rsimms
It's like a massive aquarium... You might be able to cram 100 guppies in your 10-gallon aquarium, but 85 of them are going to die no matter how well you feed them.

Same is true on our reservoirs. They'll only support XX pounds of fish and anything you cram in there (or release) is likely to die of natural mortality. The carrying capacity of our reservoirs does vary depending upon natural vegetation, water flow, etc. But it is the existing environmental factors that dictate how many fish there are... not how many mere fishermen release.


I agree except...
Although a fishery can hold only a certain amount of fish, the catch and release person, just like the mature buck hunter, wants more of the older age classes to survive. We (or I should say "I") want the "quality experience" that we hear about.

The reason most private ponds ask you to toss the big fish back and eat all the little ones is so the little ones won't take up too much of that total percentage. They'll eat some of the forage momma needs to become a bruiser. Leave momma alone for us to catch over and over again, and eat all the little'uns. Let momma eat some of those little'uns too, and she'll end up being a real trophy.

Although I'm not dissing anyone for taking their share, I have no idea why someone would eat a 5 pound bass and throw the little ones back. Why some eat a 20-inch trout only to toss the 12-inchers back is equally baffling. I'd eat a 20-incher about as quick as I would eat my dog. Yes, I'm exaggerating, but the point is that the trophies are too valuable as sportsfish to eat when they can be caught over and over again.


You can't compare management of a farm pond to the Tennessee (or Cumberland) River system. Apples and oranges.

As for releasing the trophies... fine if you do so as a matter of personal choice. Case in point - My buddy used to tag bass. He tagged a 5-pounder and released. One year later his son, at six years old, caught exact same fish... and it weighed six pounds. (That story is in my book).

BUT, take the case of the guys in California who caught a new world-record bass. No doubt they could have had it ceertified, but they released it because they new the catch was "questionable." (potentially snagged the fish on the bed). The fish was clearly identifiable due to a prominent black spot on a gill. A few months later the fish was found floating bloated and dead... likely of old age or other associated maladay.

Moral of my ramblings... release the big ones if you wish in hopes the first story might come true and someone else enjoy your good will.

But accept the fact that it is VERY possible that the latter will be true... that the fish will simply die to be eaten by turtles and other aquatic scavengers. It happens a lot more than we care to admit.

"So why don't I see dead bass floating all over the lake," you might ask.

Just like people who drown, they don't float until they start to decompose. And then, only if the body cavity remains uncompromised. That can take anywhere from a day or two, up to a month. And fish are much smaller than people... so the aquatic scavengers in nearly every case comprimise body cavities (or consume the fish) long before you ever get the chance to see it float.

The next time you see mysterious bubbles popping to the surface of a lake ... consider that it could be the remains of the rotting body of a world record bass that someone was good enough to release.
_________________________
Read my book, "An Outdoor State of Mind"
http://stores.lulu.com/rsimms
"The outdoors is not just a place, it's a state of mind."
http://www.ScenicCityFishing.com

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#1339828 - 05/25/09 08:02 AM Re: Catch and Release [Re: rsimms]
RUGER Administrator
Mouse Killa
Non-Typical


Registered: 11/19/99
Posts: 4104340
Loc: TN

Offline
\:D
_________________________
Youth is wasted on the young.

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#1339913 - 05/25/09 08:54 AM Re: Catch and Release [Re: RUGER]
Football Hunter
Non-Typical


Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 25303
Loc: Wilson Co/Perry Co

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JMO opinion Bowriter,keeping a bass seems weird to me,but keep all you want,especially out of OH,seems like there must be 5 billion 11/2 pound bass in there.
_________________________
The best day to plant a tree,IS TODAY!

You wont know,if you dont go!


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#1339958 - 05/25/09 09:48 AM Re: Catch and Release [Re: bowriter]
madMax
4 Point


Registered: 04/09/08
Posts: 130
Loc: Middle TN

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 Originally Posted By: bowriter


"I think its weird to keep a bass,JMO,seems like to much fun to catch em,but crappie and cats,I love em" Wrote Football Hunter.

So a bass is more exalted than a lowly catfish or a bream or a trout? Then you would agree we should not hunt elk? Ever caught a tarpon or a big carp?

You simply cannot, in my view put one species of fish above another. Gil loves to catch skipjacks. He dotes on carp fishing and now he has started shooting arrows at them. That is truly utilizing the resource.

I love to catch fish. I love to eat fish. Fish were put here to feed humans, not entertain them. I believe pesca should come full cycle. You catch them and enjoy. You eat them and enjoy. You go crap in the garden and enjoy. Then pick the maters to go with the next fish you catch...

and enjoy.


I pretty much agree 100%. Who is to say a bass is better than a crappie or a trout better than a skipjack? Oh I know who....

From what I understand C&R was born mainly from 2 camps: Bass Tourney guys and Trout Enthusiasts/Purists. Look years later at the results... young anglers who will grow to believe eating bass and trout is a sin. Its almost a brainwashing effect. I know that C&R is critical for managing fisheries and of course regs have been in place for decades nationwide but I'm talking about the C&R mentality that exists on a higher level

The argument is "let em grow so we can all catch trophies". Who decides whats a trophy? Who even invented the concept of "sport fish"? Why does it consume some ppl so much that they look down on others? I enjoy the whole fishing experience - being on or in the water, taking in my surroundings, catching the fish, and sometimes YES - eating my catch.

If some are so obsessed with catching only big fish and it overwhelms you that much why not just fish the pay pond? I mean arent the big fish supposed to be part of the magic? They shouldn't be an everyday experience...they should come during that special moment, every so often, or maybe once in a lifetime.

Imagine your kid growing up saying "Dad I'm tired of going to the Caney all we catch are those big brown trout on every cast I want to catch something different. Something even bigger and better!" (maybe a little exaggerated but you get the drift )

Thats why you start kids out on bluegill Because if you look at it this way people will never be satisfied. Trophy hunters always want bigger and better. I guess it becomes like a drug - once you build tolerance to catching a big bass or trout you want more big ones - and bigger ones, and more more more!

Maybe for some rehab you trophy addicts should take a kid fishing and just watch and listen to them - hopefully you will again see the big picture instead of your Catch, Photo, Relapse... \:\)

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#1339972 - 05/25/09 10:07 AM Re: Catch and Release [Re: gil1]
tndrbstr
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Registered: 10/06/05
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 Originally Posted By: gil1
Speaking of, I'm getting hitched and honeymooning (bonefishing) in July.


HAHA! \:D ,..Congratulations again Gil,, I've heard it called everything now!

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#1339975 - 05/25/09 10:09 AM Re: Catch and Release [Re: bowriter]
gil1
12 Point


Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 6319
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 Originally Posted By: bowriter

But Gill-As much as I revere a smallmouth, if there was only one left in the world and I caught it---if I was hungry for fish...I'd eat it.

(just broke three major rules of journalism punctuation.)


4 - You misspelled my name. \:D

 Originally Posted By: bowriter
So a bass is more exalted than a lowly catfish or a bream or a trout? Then you would agree we should not hunt elk? Ever caught a tarpon or a big carp?

You simply cannot, in my view put one species of fish above another. Gil loves to catch skipjacks. He dotes on carp fishing and now he has started shooting arrows at them. That is truly utilizing the resource.


True, but I think we do anyway. Folks toss whitefish on the bank out west because they want more trout. We naturally choose the better fighter or the better tasting or the better looking. I am not a snob about looks (if you had seen some of my old firlfriends, you'd agree).
_________________________
It is not the killing ...; it is the contest of skill and cunning. The true hunter counts his achievement in proportion to the effort involved and the fairness of the sport.

Dr. Saxton Pope

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#1339976 - 05/25/09 10:10 AM Re: Catch and Release [Re: tndrbstr]
Football Hunter
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take it easy Maxd,just dont like to eat bass myself
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#1339982 - 05/25/09 10:14 AM Re: Catch and Release [Re: tndrbstr]
gil1
12 Point


Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 6319
Loc: Nashville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: tndrbstr
 Originally Posted By: gil1
Speaking of, I'm getting hitched and honeymooning (bonefishing) in July.


HAHA! \:D ,..Congratulations again Gil,, I've heard it called everything now!

Now that right there's funny, don't care who ya are! \:D
_________________________
It is not the killing ...; it is the contest of skill and cunning. The true hunter counts his achievement in proportion to the effort involved and the fairness of the sport.

Dr. Saxton Pope

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#1339987 - 05/25/09 10:17 AM Re: Catch and Release [Re: Football Hunter]
madMax
4 Point


Registered: 04/09/08
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 Originally Posted By: Football Hunter
take it easy Maxd,just dont like to eat bass myself


Sorry Hunter, not lashing out at you - just throwing my 2 pennies at you... or maybe its about 20 cents... Or maybe just gas on the fire? Who knows where this thread is headed?? \:o

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#1339999 - 05/25/09 10:23 AM Re: Catch and Release [Re: Tubakka]
gil1
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 Originally Posted By: Tubakka
I had this WHOLE thing typed up and then decided...

...no...

...it had some real gems in it too Gil. You'd have loved it. XOXO

"Tartar Sauce" h aha...I'm getting a shirt made.

...I'll leave it at this. I believe in catch-and-release as a management tool and a concept to be practiced and regarded, not as an absolute and a life-style choice. Alot of people use it almost like some demographics do their sexual orientation...it becomes almost an identity to them, more than just a practice of their character. And it most certainly shouldn't be a line of segregation between folks utilizing a resource, especially when the party inciting judgment upon another isn't even utilizing the same layer of the resource. Do I believe catch-and-release is a good practice? Of course. Do I believe that there is this utopian fishery in artificially augmented or created fisheries that exists if every single fish is release in a PUT-GROW-AND-TAKE fishery? No. And is it not a beautiful thing to HAVE the luxury of a fishery that is built to take the harvest of some nice fish for the table?


You're scaring me, Tubbs. I actually agree.
But I realize that those are generalizations, and we have an ocean of differences to cross.

There are some Utopias out there, but they ain't public, they ain't cheap, and they ain't Put-Grow-And-Take. I know it would never happen, but my fantasy would be just to have one C&R fishery. Let the eaters have all the rest.

Our society would never pay to manage something publicly where the only thing we take out of it is a fun experience. We have to take from the resource, or we can't support it. That's not wrong at all - like BW said, the resource was put there for us to take it. I just wish we could have one of the thousands out there that we could manage solely for entertainment value.
_________________________
It is not the killing ...; it is the contest of skill and cunning. The true hunter counts his achievement in proportion to the effort involved and the fairness of the sport.

Dr. Saxton Pope

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#1340014 - 05/25/09 10:31 AM Re: Catch and Release [Re: gil1]
bob
4 Point


Registered: 04/18/08
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I’ve been doing this since I was old enough to cast. I’ve caught them all, and eaten them all. I like White Bass, LM Bass, Crappie, Bluegill, Redeye, Black Perch, Rainbow Trout over 15” and under 20”, Striper, Hybrids, Walleye, Sauger, and perhaps most of all smaller blue Cats from clean waters, for the table. I will eat any of these fish if the mood hits while I’m deciding whether they live or die after biting my hook.

My argument here is about broadcasting on a heavily viewed forum the Harvest of fish, complete with exact location, exact “idiot proof” technique, and the constant encouragement for others to join in on the carnage. There are a lot of unscrupulous people who don’t give a rats arse about a fishery, haven’t paid their dues, don’t respect what TWRA’s mission is, and don’t respect the sport. Getting on a forum and making it easy for those folks is out right ignorance and shows how green and immature the people who do it are.


If a group of people showed up on a great fishery and started harvesting limits and then went to every board in the region, and out of the region, and posted exact data like has been posted here. Pretty soon the crowds start showing up and growing exponentially every weekend until you can’t fish your beloved area without getting pissed off.


Tubs, watch some of the true Greats of the sport, Dahlberg, Pallet, Linder, Dance, etc. Notice they don’t volunteer a lot those great local locations. You’re a good fisherman, I’ll give you that but it’s your disdain for others “fly guys” that I think makes you post what you post. Or maybe you think you discovered something nobody else knew about... Well truth is everybody else was enjoying it long before you showed up. Your just the loud mouth that told everybody else about while ringing the diner bell.
You’re evolving as an angler. A lot of the so called “elitist”, what ever that’s supposed to mean, went through the same evolution. Once you’ve seen a few of your favorite fishing locations get fished out and never return to the grandeur you remember. Or you drive for several hours to your favorite honey hole only to find the ramp full of trailers and five boats on your favorite spot, then maybe you’ll understand. Enjoy yourself tell everyone what you catch then lie like hell about where you caught it and what you caught it on. Lying is perhaps the most valuable lesson a fisherman needs to learn.


Maybe not be the rant you were looking for but there it is.


Edited by bob (05/25/09 10:48 AM)

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#1340124 - 05/25/09 11:59 AM Re: Catch and Release [Re: bob]
Tubakka
6 Point


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I've not ever been against ALL fly guys, dude. Some of them are cool guys, normally the ones that are willing to put it down and go use other tackle when it calls for other species and stuff. I was just amazed when I came down here, having never fished for trout before, and being told this absolute sack of crap by the guys who were supposed to know the most about it [things like "20 inch fish are rare, that's a trophy...can't catch fish on 2 generators...], and then running into the old codgers down at the dam in their rv's showing me pictures of fish that weren't supposed to exist. No I hate to say it, not everyone has been doing what I've been doing, and not everyone as well. Some better, but not everyone does nearly as well as me and my posse. That's not bragging; we've put in some time to learn the locations. We hit high percentage spots and know where to go. I didn't see anyone else out there fishing, let alone catching fish under the 20,000 cfs. You can say what you want and hate me all you want, I work my butt off out there. I have alot to learn, but I'm not sitting stagnant happy throwing a dry fly into 6 inches of water when there are 15-20-30-and maybe even 40 pound fish out there to be caught.

I was recently out on Butler chain in FL with a group of friends and we pulled up to Tiger Woods house. Un freakin' believable...and one of the guys in the group makes a comment how no one should have that much money. I turned to him and said "Oh, so you want everyone to be poor like you?..." What he was saying was...he didn't want anyone to have more than what he had. He wanted everyone on his level. He didn't want to share. What I was saying was, if no one else has it, then who does? We have no economy if there aren't people with inordinate amounts of money, and everytime that guy decides to build a new addition to his home, he helps put food on the table for 20-30 more people.

So, I guess you don't WANT people utilizing this fishery hmmm? getting the max out of it? Because I can tell you, it's not being utilized even now. Not even close. I doubt any of these tailraces are. But the more they are, these high profile well stocked tailraces anyway, the more fish go into them, the more money is generated by it, and the better the ailing TWRA can equip them to supply the demand upon them, and perhaps even research in how to improve them further. But if only a small group of fishermen keep their lips closed on it, even though they can selfishly brood over it, the more their fishery will diminish. It takes money to support these fisheries, and if a whole other level of angling is opened up to people on these bodies of water that allows people to utilize them in today's economic times without spending 60 bucks an hour LEARNING HOW TO CAST and getting brand new equipment, where they can go out with a walmart set up and have a shot at a nice fish, how can that be interpreted as anything but beneficial to it? They're buying trout stamps, baits, gas, food, etc...

In this instance, we're dealing with a mitigation trout fishery stocked to the gills, no pun intended, with trout on a monthly basis, due to the specific purchase of a trout stamp. Ergo, the more people you get going to the river, BUYING that stamp, and investing in the resource, the better it is for the resource itself. The Caney fork is a playground for Nashville and has been for quite some time apparently. I didn't let any cat out of any bag.

I will however share info on how to catch fish. Here's why I get a little peeved at the dichotomy between tactics...someone could get on here and give fly fishing instructions, and gee that'd be swell. I come on and help people who may want to get started in fishing in a method that doesn't take a 12 week study course just to learn how to cast, which is virtually irrelevant to catching fish whatsoever, just the method of locomotion to your presentation...and I get rapped. Sorry that I like to actually report things on a fishing report forum. I hate to tell this you BOB, but it's not a total "idiot proof" tactic. I've taken fish up to 28.5" wading dude...wading. And I wasn't hitting random spots or just sitting in line with 30 other guys at the dam run flailing around...I had literally swam upstream to a spot in late Feb and picked my spot and stuck with it. I apply knowledge learned from studying movements of fish in other environments to the river, and alot of them crossover. I assure you, just because I throw jerkbaits doesn't mean I'm some idiot. They're just the tool. I'm not some master angler, but it gets under my skin when you come on here and attack my abilities like that, when I can't seem to recall the last time you've done anything but criticize on a forum that is supposed to be meant for fishing reports.

My buddies and I are out there all the time with other guys seemingly doing just what we're doing, and more often than not we're the ones back at the ramp sharing the stories and the pics. I feel like I can say that because we spend alot of time and effort out there. Just because I don't write latigo when I cast doesn't mean anything. Really, so put that stick down. It gets old.

I can tell you this...if I had the time and the money and really wanted to, I could learn how to cast fly tackle and once I did, I'd be catching "big" browns just like now, because it's the knowledge that catches the fish, not the tackle. I could take big sculpin and shad patterns and do just what I do now...but I just don't want to. Why go through that trouble just to prove a point? WHY spend that money and take that time just to learn how to get my bait from point A to point B? It offers me no advantages in the fish I pursue, and would actually make some angling incredibly more difficult. I've heard these guys complain about throwing weighted lines and heavy streamers. I'll stick with my spinning. I'd rather learn how to get the biggest fish I can on the most efficient means. Fly fishing is a highly effective tactic in certain areas and at certain times, but this entire new cult of fishing that it's become, where people who fish with other tactics are "beneath" those that flyfish, is absolutely absurd. And I will continue to speak out against that mindset. It's never been the tactic that got under my skin; it was that attitude. The one you show me on this forum again and again.

You keep saying how this fishery is being fished out. I've heard it many times now over the past 2 years I've fished it [well, being in Florida nearly a full year of one of those...I guess year] and I heard attack after attack on people who spin fished and kept the occasional trout and how it was "destroying the fishery" and how "there were no big browns left". Our average now is 2 browns a trip over 20", and we're getting better. Most of the time those fish are 22-24" or better. In fact, Shore just called me from the river and he has already gotten 2 over 20" 2 hours into the trip, and had a giant on. I'm not saying this to brag, but when assessing a recreational fishery, you must assess it by the how well recreational anglers are doing. We spend a decent amount of time on the river under a variety of conditions and I feel our results are more valid than one run with a shocking boat and a few guys from nashville that fish it on falling water a couple times a month. No offense, but let's get real here.

That utopian river already exists...and all the catch and release in the world wouldn't make it any better for those who don't change their tactics. The definition of insanity is to do the same thing and expect different results. There are giant fish in these rivers under your noses; IGNORANCE is what protects them from people, that and a little bit of elbow grease and time on the water. I've seen lots of guys just go out and toss jerkbaits, You might get a few fish, but 60% of it at least is location, location, location. Gil keeps talking about these pay to play rivers...those trophy fish in there don't have a bunch of stockers feeding them and 20-30 foot holes to dwell in and the option of ducking down when the generation turns off, and they are forced to diet on macros and other smaller bites because that's all they have for the most part. That is why there are big fish in there that guys can catch...it's not the catch and release...it's the small body close proximity and starving trophy fish. When the browns in the Caney have 8-12" rainbows and brookies to feed on, why the hell would they come up in 6 inches of water with their back showing out on falling water to slurp a midge? It doesn't make biological sense. I'm not saying it never happens, but the bulk of the time in these tailraces environments, that's not how they're doing this. Especially not these giants. Do the homework and you'd see that.

Last year, I had a friend that could barely cast a reel whatsoever, but he saw some of the fish I was catching and just chomping at the bit to go. So I took him and we got set up with a decent spinning outfit and some baits. He went a couple times wading and did not do too well. Throwing medium sized jerkbaits which can be killer on the shoals wading, especially at dusk. Big fish. So I took him out, and even on spinning this guy was having trouble making 30-40 foot casts, but I positioned the boat close to shore and gave him priority on some good spots, and by the end of the day, he had a 23.5" brown to his hands. not a giant, but is there not something cool about being able to take someone out on their first trip and have them tie into a fish like that? He's hooked for life...and is planning on buying a boat and going all out. It would've taken this guy a year before he couldv'e even begun to throw a fly of any sort. Let alone catch any fish i'd bet because he wouldn't have been able to get it out there. Is there not something really cool about that? Yet you continue to slam it. But hey, everytime a child picks up a fly rod, a brookie gets its spots or something.




Edited by Tubakka (05/25/09 11:59 AM)

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#1340128 - 05/25/09 12:01 PM Re: Catch and Release [Re: Tubakka]
Tubakka
6 Point


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HOLY COW~ I just published that after just typing out my thoughts nonstop and looked back...and it's like I'm staring into the porcelain at a 15 pound turd, or should I say 6.5 Kouriks. Absolute bewilderment, with a pinch of accomplishment...that came out of me? haha.
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#1340143 - 05/25/09 12:07 PM Re: Catch and Release [Re: madMax]
Tubakka
6 Point


Registered: 12/19/07
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 Originally Posted By: MaxD
[quote=bowriter]
From what I understand C&R was born mainly from 2 camps: Bass Tourney guys and Trout Enthusiasts/Purists. Look years later at the results... young anglers who will grow to believe eating bass and trout is a sin. Its almost a brainwashing effect. I know that C&R is critical for managing fisheries and of course regs have been in place for decades nationwide but I'm talking about the C&R mentality that exists on a higher level

The argument is "let em grow so we can all catch trophies". Who decides whats a trophy? Who even invented the concept of "sport fish"? Why does it consume some ppl so much that they look down on others? I enjoy the whole fishing experience - being on or in the water, taking in my surroundings, catching the fish, and sometimes YES - eating my catch.


Dude Max D. I think that is the best thing I've ever heard said on this forum concerning this. I wish I had said it. Amen brother...that is what I have been getting at. The catch and release MENTALITY...we have canonized a renewable resource. It's gone from respect to religion. That is the danger of all this. This Montague and Capulet crap is absurd.



Edited by Tubakka (05/25/09 12:28 PM)

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#1340202 - 05/25/09 12:41 PM Re: Catch and Release [Re: Tubakka]
rsimms
10 Point


Registered: 09/08/02
Posts: 2631
Loc: Chattanooga, TN

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 Originally Posted By: Tubakka
HOLY COW~ I just published that after just typing out my thoughts nonstop and looked back...and it's like I'm staring into the porcelain at a 15 pound turd, or should I say 6.5 Kouriks. Absolute bewilderment, with a pinch of accomplishment...that came out of me? haha.


I'm glad you followed up on yourself before I had a chance to.

I thought I was being "wordy!" \:o
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#1340264 - 05/25/09 01:22 PM Re: Catch and Release [Re: gil1]
bowriter
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 Originally Posted By: gil1
 Originally Posted By: bowriter

But Gill-As much as I revere a smallmouth, if there was only one left in the world and I caught it---if I was hungry for fish...I'd eat it.

(just broke three major rules of journalism punctuation.)


4 - You misspelled my name. \:D


 Originally Posted By: bowriter
So a bass is more exalted than a lowly catfish or a bream or a trout? Then you would agree we should not hunt elk? Ever caught a tarpon or a big carp?

You simply cannot, in my view put one species of fish above another. Gil loves to catch skipjacks. He dotes on carp fishing and now he has started shooting arrows at them. That is truly utilizing the resource.


True, but I think we do anyway. Folks toss whitefish on the bank out west because they want more trout. We naturally choose the better fighter or the better tasting or the better looking. I am not a snob about looks (if you had seen some of my old firlfriends, you'd agree).


4 - You misspelled my name. \:D

LMAO- No...you missed the pun.
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#1340265 - 05/25/09 01:23 PM Re: Catch and Release [Re: bowriter]
bowriter
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BTW- Where the he11 is Punta Gorda and how the he11 do you get there?
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#1340272 - 05/25/09 01:35 PM Re: Catch and Release [Re: bowriter]
Radar
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I ate some fish last night . Believe it or not that Hybrid striper was quite good with the red meat filleted off. \:\)
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#1340274 - 05/25/09 01:38 PM Re: Catch and Release [Re: Football Hunter]
bowriter
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 Originally Posted By: Football Hunter
JMO opinion Bowriter,keeping a bass seems weird to me,but keep all you want,especially out of OH,seems like there must be 5 billion 11/2 pound bass in there.


Oh Lord, I would love to. But you see, a 1.5# bass on O.H. is 14.5 inches. Not legal. Same is true for P.Priest.
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Constipation has ruined many a good day. Not as many as stupidity, though.

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#1340363 - 05/25/09 03:40 PM Re: Catch and Release [Re: bowriter]
Football Hunter
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 Originally Posted By: bowriter
 Originally Posted By: Football Hunter
JMO opinion Bowriter,keeping a bass seems weird to me,but keep all you want,especially out of OH,seems like there must be 5 billion 11/2 pound bass in there.


Oh Lord, I would love to. But you see, a 1.5# bass on O.H. is 14.5 inches. Not legal. Same is true for P.Priest.

you sure,they told us 14 on largemouth at the renegade tournament saturday,coming out of Flippers


Edited by Football Hunter (05/25/09 03:43 PM)
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#1340366 - 05/25/09 03:42 PM Re: Catch and Release [Re: Football Hunter]
Football Hunter
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BTW,I have lived here 10 years and have been told how nasty OH is,but never heard that about Cordell Hull ,or Cheatam,any thoughts,I love fish too,maybe this talk has swayed me away from fish keeping.
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#1340369 - 05/25/09 03:44 PM Re: Catch and Release [Re: bowriter]
gil1
12 Point


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Now we're talkin', Baby! I didn't even mention the Caney Fork or fly fishing, but I knew we'd get there eventually.

Yes, of course it's impossible to overharvest a system. That could never happen in the real world. And of course, all fly fishers are part of an idiot cult that just don't have enough sense to learn how to do things the right way.

Lord, Tubbs, you've got to control that jealousy. Fly flinging isn't as deep, dark, and difficult as you make it out to be. You're perpetuating the "A River Runs Through It" la-la-land that fly fishing is an art form. It's just fishing, man. You don't have to be afraid. Yes, it takes some skill and practice, but even a dope like me could get you up to intermediate level in a dozen or so years. \:D
_________________________
It is not the killing ...; it is the contest of skill and cunning. The true hunter counts his achievement in proportion to the effort involved and the fairness of the sport.

Dr. Saxton Pope

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#1340372 - 05/25/09 03:47 PM Re: Catch and Release [Re: Football Hunter]
bowriter
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He11, I don't know. I think it is 15"

Old Hickory is nasty and so is Cordell and Cheatham. But nasty is relative. I would not hesitate to eat fish from any of those waters. If they did a water quality test, all of those waters would probably beat P. Priest. Now clarity is a different matter. Dirt aint automatically dirty.

NOW!!!!!~ Before you start keeping 14" fish, check the regs and make sure. I believe the size limit is 15".
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#1340378 - 05/25/09 03:56 PM Re: Catch and Release [Re: gil1]
shorefisherman
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 Originally Posted By: gil1
I was really hoping Tubbs would join in with a couple of pages about some musky fishery and then tell me I'm too stupid to catch fish anyway.


\:D you got what you asked for gil
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#1340384 - 05/25/09 04:01 PM Re: Catch and Release [Re: shorefisherman]
bowriter
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Yep 14" for OH. Pisses me off. I have been throwing back a lot of good food. Course, I never measure 'em anyway. I use the Gill method. If they got a gill, I eat 'em. My boat does not have a livewell. It has a dead well.
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#1340386 - 05/25/09 04:03 PM Re: Catch and Release [Re: shorefisherman]
gil1
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Registered: 04/06/07
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 Originally Posted By: shorefisherman
 Originally Posted By: gil1
I was really hoping Tubbs would join in with a couple of pages about some musky fishery and then tell me I'm too stupid to catch fish anyway.


\:D you got what you asked for gil



Yeah, I realized the only reason he didn't jump in there is because it took a couple days to write all that stuff! If the boy got paid by the minute, he'd own the Caney, and I'd be his fishing caddy.
_________________________
It is not the killing ...; it is the contest of skill and cunning. The true hunter counts his achievement in proportion to the effort involved and the fairness of the sport.

Dr. Saxton Pope

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#1340393 - 05/25/09 04:07 PM Re: Catch and Release [Re: gil1]
shorefisherman
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i mostly catch and release. and to be honest, i release em cause im too lazy to clean em and often get side tracked after i fish....but keepin fish long as its legal is all cool and the gang with me!
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#1340431 - 05/25/09 04:41 PM Re: Catch and Release [Re: shorefisherman]
rukiddin?
8 Point


Registered: 02/04/09
Posts: 1483
Loc: E. Tenn

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I keep pretty much any panfish I catch. Especially white bass, crappie, bluegill and yellow perch. As far as the bass go, do whatever you like, I just don't bass fish that much, but if a spot bites my hook, he usually gets a cooler ride. Catch and release has been detrimental mentality and demise of many farm ponds. Guys think that all bass should be thrown back to "get bigger", but in reality they are shooting themselves in the foot. If you go in and catch 100 12" largemouths out of a 15 year old pond and release them all, then you have done more damage than good by releasing them. IMO tournament bass fishermen kill way more bass than catch and eat fishermen will ever kill. I'm not saying they do it intentionally, but just because they swim off after the weigh-in, does not mean they wont be belly up in 12 hours.

I saw a post about someone raising cane if they were bowfishing in a carp fishermens spot. If anyone threatens to whoop me while I'm bowfishing (buffs not included) for common carp, then you better have enough cash in the bank to cash that check. I will throw a common carp on the bank to rot, before I release them back in the water. IMO, anyone who releases invasives back to the waters they came from, should be fined and ticketed no differently than poachers.
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#1340481 - 05/25/09 05:01 PM Re: Catch and Release [Re: bowriter]
Football Hunter
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 Originally Posted By: bowriter
Yep 14" for OH. Pisses me off. I have been throwing back a lot of good food. Course, I never measure 'em anyway. I use the Gill method. If they got a gill, I eat 'em. My boat does not have a livewell. It has a dead well.
and its 12 for Cordell Hull,but I doubt Im going there when OH is so close,Ill go to Dale Hollow if Im driving that far
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#1340484 - 05/25/09 05:03 PM Re: Catch and Release [Re: bowriter]
Football Hunter
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 Originally Posted By: bowriter
He11, I don't know. I think it is 15"

Old Hickory is nasty and so is Cordell and Cheatham. But nasty is relative. I would not hesitate to eat fish from any of those waters. If they did a water quality test, all of those waters would probably beat P. Priest. Now clarity is a different matter. Dirt aint automatically dirty.

NOW!!!!!~ Before you start keeping 14" fish, check the regs and make sure. I believe the size limit is 15".
I can dang sure tell a difference in how my boat looks when it comes out of OH,especially when compared to Dale hOLLOW
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#1340510 - 05/25/09 05:28 PM Re: Catch and Release [Re: gil1]
Football Hunter
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Different kind of fillets John
[list]
[*]null
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#1340584 - 05/25/09 06:26 PM Re: Catch and Release [Re: Football Hunter]
Tubakka
6 Point


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I don't think you're stupid gil. I just think you cancel yourself out. One minute you talk about how you want a trophy fishery on the Caney and how you are trying to regulate the take of the larger fish, and then you say how you don't catch them anyway and you don't care to and are not even trying. So what is it then? What does it matter to you what happens to those fish? They're there man, You're not catching them and if you don't care that's fine, but don't try to tell other people what to do with a resource you're not even utilizing. That's where I get perplexed.
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#1340590 - 05/25/09 06:28 PM Re: Catch and Release [Re: Tubakka]
Tubakka
6 Point


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And gil, I've never spent more than 15 minutes on any post ever and that was due to going back to check for anything I may have mistated. I'm a pretty fast typer. Remember, I grew up when we had the "delete" key so we didn't have to type 5 words a minute for accuracy. by the by, regale us with tales of those marvelous concerts in the park under the gazeebo on a warm saturday afternoon, when the marches of Henry Fillmore and Sousa could he heard from the corner parlor?
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#1340692 - 05/25/09 08:09 PM Re: Catch and Release [Re: Tubakka]
jakeway
TnDeer Old Timer
10 Point


Registered: 11/22/99
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Ho, hum. I eat fish a lot, proably twice a week,but mostly in restaurants.

I keep Bluegills and Shellcrackers. Saugers and walleyes.

I'll keep a 16-20" catfish if I'm in the mood for JAMBALAYA or "Catfish Et 2 Fay" But I don't like the taste of catfish, wild or pond-raised.

This is also probably heresy, but I think Crappie os way over-rated. Bluegill or even largemouth cooked with the same recipe is better tasting to me than Crappie. People who love crappie may just like the recipe, or haven't compared them side-by-side with bluegill or bass.

I release most bass and trout I catch, unless they've been badly hooked and are bleeding. I caught this bass from shore in a park on Old Hickory a couple weeks ago; it swallowed the hook and was bleeding pretty badly. A family was fishing just down the bank and keeping fish for lunch, so I gave them the bass. They thanked me profusely, and the little kids asked me all kinds of questions about the nice bass rod and unusual but highly efective method I was using.





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#1340734 - 05/25/09 08:28 PM Re: Catch and Release [Re: Tubakka]
Football Hunter
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Can you repeat the stuff you said about the thing?
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#1340915 - 05/25/09 10:43 PM Re: Catch and Release [Re: Football Hunter]
Swamphunter
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Registered: 12/27/07
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If I catch legal crappie or fillet-size bream and have enough to justify the mess I fillet them. If I catch a catfish less than 3 pounds I will fillet it. I never keep a bass over 3 pounds. All the bass I eat are largemouth, preferably 1-2 pounds. I rarely keep a bass. Most of my eating fish are crappie and bream.
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#1340920 - 05/25/09 11:11 PM Re: Catch and Release [Re: Tubakka]
gil1
12 Point


Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 6319
Loc: Nashville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: Tubakka
I don't think you're stupid gil. I just think you cancel yourself out. One minute you talk about how you want a trophy fishery on the Caney and how you are trying to regulate the take of the larger fish, and then you say how you don't catch them anyway and you don't care to and are not even trying. So what is it then? What does it matter to you what happens to those fish? They're there man, You're not catching them and if you don't care that's fine, but don't try to tell other people what to do with a resource you're not even utilizing. That's where I get perplexed.


That's a pretty valid point, but you've misunderstood me a little. I admit I've never caught a fish over 23 1/2 inches on the Caney on the fly. Never. Of all my fishing buddies, I am probably the least talented. I don't catch very many over 20. I consider a 16 inch fish a beast. Heck, I consider a 12-incher on my 3-weight in the rapids a beast.

But if I ever said I didn't care to catch trophies and wasn't trying to anyway, I lied. Not always, but most of the time, I'm going to opt my fly flinging way with a much smaller chance of success on the big fish, but you better believe I want to catch the biggest fish I can within the method I prefer.

I have come to understand that you will never "get" the concept of fishing a certain way just for the challenge, not for the kill and not necessarily for the trophy.

I had several turkeys within shotgun range this year and didn't kill any because the only gobbler I got in bow range busted me drawing my bow. I missed out on a nice 10-pointer this year because it was at 50 yards, a nice rifle chipshot but woefully out of my bow range. It's more exciting for me to kill a turkey with an arrow, and it's more exciting for me to catch a trout with a tiny morsel and a fly rod. I don't give a crap how anybody else hunts or fishes, but it means everything to you.

Anyone that doesn't have your motivations and methods for fishing somehow makes your head spin in disbelief. You talk about this group of fly fishers that is so full of it and so egotistical. Well, I say that you find that everywhere, and you are the main ego offender. You're the main guy that cares how folks fishand disses others for their choice of rod. For the life of me, I can't figure out why.

I'm not telling folks what to do with the resource. Like I said at the beginning, I want to know what you do and why. I spoke my truth without dissing others. I even admitted that I kill fish from time to time.

On the flip side, Tubbs, I wouldn't waste my time answering you if I didn't find our discussions riveting. Some poor desperate shmuck may well learn something from listening to our rants. Or prolly not!

 Originally Posted By: Tubakka
And gil, I've never spent more than 15 minutes on any post ever and that was due to going back to check for anything I may have mistated. I'm a pretty fast typer. Remember, I grew up when we had the "delete" key so we didn't have to type 5 words a minute for accuracy. by the by, regale us with tales of those marvelous concerts in the park under the gazeebo on a warm saturday afternoon, when the marches of Henry Fillmore and Sousa could he heard from the corner parlor?


Although I look it and probably act it, I'm not nearly that old (well, maybe 42 is ancient to you). But that's still pretty dern funny! \:D
_________________________
It is not the killing ...; it is the contest of skill and cunning. The true hunter counts his achievement in proportion to the effort involved and the fairness of the sport.

Dr. Saxton Pope

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#1340922 - 05/25/09 11:19 PM Re: Catch and Release [Re: rukiddin?]
gil1
12 Point


Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 6319
Loc: Nashville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: rukiddin?
I saw a post about someone raising cane if they were bowfishing in a carp fishermens spot. If anyone threatens to whoop me while I'm bowfishing (buffs not included) for common carp, then you better have enough cash in the bank to cash that check. I will throw a common carp on the bank to rot, before I release them back in the water. IMO, anyone who releases invasives back to the waters they came from, should be fined and ticketed no differently than poachers.


If it wasn't my post you're talking about, it should have been. Your comments are heresy, sir, and I am bound by honor to pommel you into subconsciousness with a wet carp (before I carefully release him unharmed). \:D

Okay, I'm messing around a little, but I would seriously never bowfish in one of my carp fishing spots. And whether you like it or not, I will release them all to be caught again. They are a fantastic sportfish worthy of my praise and protection.

Well, when I'm not blowing them up with an arrow! ;\)
_________________________
It is not the killing ...; it is the contest of skill and cunning. The true hunter counts his achievement in proportion to the effort involved and the fairness of the sport.

Dr. Saxton Pope

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#1342357 - 05/26/09 06:03 PM Re: Catch and Release [Re: gil1]
warrent423
6 Point


Registered: 09/11/07
Posts: 634
Loc: Tenn. McMinn, Athens

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Ain't nothin like a good fish fry. I like to keep what I can eat and throw back the rest.
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#1342485 - 05/26/09 07:05 PM Re: Catch and Release [Re: warrent423]
Tubakka
6 Point


Registered: 12/19/07
Posts: 782
Loc: Tennessee

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Gil,
If Fox News ever gets an outdoor program, we should send them a script of some of our rants. We'd get picked up for sure.

I'm going to say this gil, and please don't take this the wrong way. You said something about catching the biggest fish available on your tackle. That IS the very nature of the problem here. Unless you're consistently throwing a heavier fly on weighted line under generation, under MOST conditions, you're not going to even be aware of the larger fish. I'm sure there are times other than the spawn that they move shallow, but I'll be honest, on one generator, I blow past most of the river and hit the high percentage areas...usually near deep water. The fish of decent size rarely use those runs, and 90% of my nicer fish come from 10% of the water [Buck Perry]. In fact, there have been times on that river during consistent flow and weather that me and shore have CALLED FISH ON THE CAST over 20". One time in 5 consecutive trips I took 5 consecutive browns between 20-24" from the exact same ten feet of water on the river. I say that not to brag, but as a testament to this...I didn't catch hardly ANY fish over 20" until I changed my tactic. Even under falling water, I didn't do that great. It wasn't until I began to fish generation above 1 gen and up to 3 that I began seeing consistent larger fish, and on 1, like I said there are good sections of the upper river specifically I just blow past. Not worth the time to waste. What I'm saying is...

...doing what you're doing, mostly wading and fishing smaller flies [I hardly throw anything under 5" and 3/4 of an ounce and have been lobbing 2 ounce crankbaits recently. Wait till I start whipping out my musky baits...] it wouldn't matter if every fish in there were 25" and up...you probably wouldn't catch any. I waded that river ALOT with smaller crankbaits, intensely over a concentrated span of time, and only at dusk would I take any fish over 20". Although I did get my 28.5" wading, it was under a near perfect weather condition which is what I attribute to that fish being where he was, as well as another occasion when myself and a flyfishing friend saw 3 fish on falling water, on a 70 degree day in late December, near or over 30", one of them with it's back out of the water at Betty's Island.

What little I've seen with these trout...the biggest ones only get active under flow or cover of darkness, my next foray, but only under near perfect weather conditions will they submit themselves to the ultra shallow water, at least in the Caney. Even my big one wading I got in a channel hugging the opposite shore right before the drop into the Betty's Island hole. You don't catch big bass beating the shore in the summertime very often...you gotta go deep. I don't think these big trout are much different most of the year. Now how to get down in those holes effectively under flow...

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#1342702 - 05/26/09 09:04 PM Re: Catch and Release [Re: Tubakka]
gil1
12 Point


Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 6319
Loc: Nashville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: Tubakka
You said something about catching the biggest fish available on your tackle. That IS the very nature of the problem here. Unless you're consistently throwing a heavier fly on weighted line under generation, under MOST conditions, you're not going to even be aware of the larger fish.

No, it's only a problem for you. You can float by me all day catching 30-inch browns while I battle 10-16 inchers in my waders, and I'm happy as I can be for both of us.

I get it Tubbs, but what I think you're missing is that I'm not changing my tactics to get to the 10 pounders. I actually enjoy spinfishing every once in a blue moon, but it's just not where my heart lies. Nearly every time we get into this, your tone seems to want to ask, "why the heck are you fly fishing when you could do what I do and catch bigger fish?" I always try to answer as best as I can, but I just don't think you could really relate.

A few years ago on the Cumberland, I was catching 13-16 inchers fairly consistently in a tailout. Up above the riffle, 8-10 inch rainbows were sipping caddis on the surface. I left the 16-inchers to catch the 8-inchers on dries. I giggle like a 10 yr. old every time, and that's what I'll keep doing. You wouldn't understand.

Why wade a river and fly fish for trout when I could spinfish out of a boat and probably catch the bigguns? Why bowhunt for deer during gun season? Why dove hunt with a 20-guage when you could use your 12? Why chase bluegills when there are lunker largemouth in the same lake? Why in the world would anyone watch gobblers strut within shotgun range while holding only a bow? Only one reason that matters...because I enjoy it.

Swear to Gawd, my motivations used to be very similar to yours, and there's nothing wrong with that at all. I tossed jerkbaits when I was a kid until my arm about fell off. What a blast, and more power to you.

You don't need to understand it, Tubbs. Just do what you enjoy, and let me and everyone else do what we enjoy. That's all that matters.
_________________________
It is not the killing ...; it is the contest of skill and cunning. The true hunter counts his achievement in proportion to the effort involved and the fairness of the sport.

Dr. Saxton Pope

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#1342889 - 05/26/09 10:37 PM Re: Catch and Release [Re: gil1]
Tubakka
6 Point


Registered: 12/19/07
Posts: 782
Loc: Tennessee

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Gil,
You just contradicted yourself again. You just corrected me by saying you are in fact trying to get the largest fish in the system doing what you're doing, but I rebuttal that with saying that what you are doing, not specifically using fly tackle, but how and when you are using it, is not going to produce for you nice browns no matter how many big ones are in there...in other words, if every brown trout in there were a "trophy" it still wouldn't matter. You wouldn't get them unless you bumped up tackle size and fished under generation. That is the advantage to spin fishing and you said it yourself, that heavier stuff on fly throws your arm out. It's not about being a "dummy" or some BS like that. WHY throw your arm out just for some form of image of whatever on this high water, and why limit yourself...haha, I occasionally peek in to watch on a flyfishing forum and these poor guys from Nashville froth like rabid dogs when they see that water go down. I had to motor upstream past them to get the dam launch on low water...a miscalculation on my part...and I felt like a jerk but there was lightning and it had to be done....and I realized this was utopia for these guys. I just wish people would learn that there's much more to this resource and not be limited by...whatever...anyhow, back to topic. You say in one sentence about how you want trophy regs, but all I'm saying is by your own admittance and apparently...your desire...trophy fish don't matter to you. Otherwise you'd do more of what I do, or at least switch to heavier tackle and fish flowing water with weighted lines. That's what for the life of me I don't understand.

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#1342933 - 05/26/09 11:30 PM Re: Catch and Release [Re: Tubakka]
gil1
12 Point


Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 6319
Loc: Nashville, TN

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Let me try again, Tubby Tubbs. Yes, I'd love to catch the biggest fish in the river. That matters to me. But not enough to change the way I like to fish. If dynamite were legal, I wouldn't toss it in those deep pools and blow up big browns and neither would you. It's probably a more efficient method, but it's not as challenging or as fun as another. It's just my preference to fly fish. Can't you understand that a 16-incher on a fly rod is more exhilarating to me than a 25-incher on a spinning rod?

What image are you talking about? Like I said before, you're making just another method of fishing into some kind of cult or art form or something. I am exactly the same person when I toss bait, bowfish, throw jerkbaits, or fly fish. There is no image, just fishing.

You're not teaching me anything by telling me that there are limitations to wading and tossing midges. I've known that for years, and it's really okay with pretty much everyone in the world but you. My goal is to have fun. I have spinfished for more years than you have been alive. Spinfishing is a blast, but I prefer flyfishing. The concept is so simple, but you have a turd in your head that apparently blocks the obvious.

Lord, haven't you ever enjoyed anything that isn't maybe the easiest way out? Don't you ever float the long way around the island even when you know it isn't the quickest way home? You get more corn off the cob by slicing it off with your knife, but just once in your life Tubbs, pick that freaking ear up and eat that mother scratcher with your hands. Let the butter drip on your shirt. Savor life, Tubbs, or at least try to understand when others do.
_________________________
It is not the killing ...; it is the contest of skill and cunning. The true hunter counts his achievement in proportion to the effort involved and the fairness of the sport.

Dr. Saxton Pope

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#1342968 - 05/27/09 04:32 AM Re: Catch and Release [Re: gil1]
bowriter
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Registered: 08/31/02
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We were in New Mexico. We were hungry. We took our ultra lights to the Brazos Hole to get a mess of troutfish. We caught 30. We ate 10. We threw 20 back. Biggest was 12 inches.

We were fishing for food. Not a bit of sport in it. Catch 'em, pitch 'em on the bank and catch another one. Could just as well have used dinomite.

Had to catch 30 to get 10 big enough to even mess with. Flyrod guy came along and remarked at how great the fishing was. Nice guy...super nice guy since he owned the ranch we hunting on.

It's all in perspective.

Many, many times I have jerked my lure out of the water to keep a rockfish or hybrid from hitting it. It is all in perspective. I would not give you a dime for a 40-pound northern or a 50-pound muskie. It is all in perspective.

A two pound bluegill is supreme. A seven pound smallie is supreme. But I would never throw a carp on the bank cause some poor schlub is liable to trip over it and break his pucker strap. But I will throw a gar on the bank cause most likely some Coonasse will come along and eat it.

It's all in perspective.
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#1343126 - 05/27/09 07:29 AM Re: Catch and Release [Re: gil1]
rsimms
10 Point


Registered: 09/08/02
Posts: 2631
Loc: Chattanooga, TN

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Gil ... give up. In truth, your signature says it all: "Many go fishing all their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after."

All fishermen figure that out sooner or later... some sooner, some later.
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#1343137 - 05/27/09 07:37 AM Re: Catch and Release [Re: Tubakka]
Headhunter
10 Point


Registered: 11/14/00
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Tubs, does he EVER make any sense? Talk about not telling the truth, I have not read them, don't have time, but there is no all of his posts have taken him less than 15 minutes. It took at least that long to summon up Buck Perry from the dead in order to get all his information. I generally read the first couple of sentences in any of Tubs posts and can tell they are useless.
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#1343211 - 05/27/09 08:15 AM Re: Catch and Release [Re: Headhunter]
Tubakka
6 Point


Registered: 12/19/07
Posts: 782
Loc: Tennessee

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You guys are missing it. I'm not attacking these things at all. Hell I still love to go pond jumping and bluegill fishing. There is a different flavor for everyone; the beauty of fishing

This isn't about what people enjoy or not. That's not it at all. THAT IS NOT THE TOPIC OF DISCUSSION AND IN NO WAY DID I ATTACK THAT AT ITS BASE. But it is relevant TO the topic of discussion concerning this particular tailrace fishery. This is people who aren't fishing for larger fish trying to have a say in the management of larger fish. Gil admits, what he does is not targeting big fish, fly or not, and that frankly he doesn't care, but then he talks about how he wants to see the Caney be a more catch-and-release fishery and makes statements about how the number of browns are decreased and he wants to see more big browns in there because, believe it or not, he's going after the biggest fish his available tackle and tactics will offer him everytime he goes out. But that's a contradiction. Do you realize some of the loudest voices in management of a tailrace in this area ONLY fish it wading, and NEVER fish it with anything larger than 2 inches long and never on more than one generation of water? That's a fact.

Just a few months ago there were some pretty brash statements made concerning the "current state" of the brown trout fishery and how its depleted, made by people whom the aforementioned very accurately describes. If that's what they enjoy, more power to them! I still enjoy wading falling water catching little rainbows and browns on tiny crankbaits when that's all I have. But it's when these people try to have a voice in a fishery they're not totally aware of, that's where I get issues. Heck, I'd been gone a year and came back to a fishery better than when I left it! And saw more people enjoying the same fishing I had come to.

This is about the fact that in assessing a recreational fishery, it doesn't matter what you shock, net, or concussively sample. What matters is WHAT IS BEING CAUGHT. You could have a trophy walleye fishery in a lake but if everyone there just bass fishes, no one would know. People may say they "trout" fish, but be more specific. There are 3-4 different categories of trout in these tailraces, easily distinguished in their habits by the size difference. Just because you say you fish for "trout" doesn't mean you're fishing for BIG TROUT. I think we've seen that...a giant brown produced on the Caney be a LIVE BROOK TROUT? I throw big baits, but nothing that big! And my results reflect as such. This can be said for every angler that is apart of every demographic that fishes that river.

This in a nutshell came down to gil saying I had a point about his tactic and choice of time limiting his big fish success [btw a 23.5" brown is a nice fish for what you do good work] but then he goes on to say that "well, I still want to catch the biggest fish available in what I'm doing...but therein lies the point. Just because you go trout fishing, doesn't mean you're fishing for the trout in question. A 20" brown does not behave like a 12", at all...and a 25-30" brown does not behave exactly like a 25-30". And a fish BIGGER than that is almost like a completely different animal, almost like a muskellunge, it seems.

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#1343220 - 05/27/09 08:20 AM Re: Catch and Release [Re: Tubakka]
Tubakka
6 Point


Registered: 12/19/07
Posts: 782
Loc: Tennessee

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Headhunter, I type pretty darn fast. But that's beside the point...wait, let me look for a kitchen sink you can reference my typing speed against...???

Seriously dude, if all you're going to do is shoot spitwads in class, just sit down. You haven't said anything contributory or remotely useful since I've known you on this forum. All you do is take pot shots. And you're neither constructive nor very creative about it. A virtual keyboard cretan. At least I try to put some kind of spin on it in my friendly bouts with gil, and I think the fruits produced from both sides can be very entertaining at times.

..."bro"...haha, I googled that episode to watch. Thanks for rekindling gil.

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#1343224 - 05/27/09 08:21 AM Re: Catch and Release [Re: Tubakka]
Tubakka
6 Point


Registered: 12/19/07
Posts: 782
Loc: Tennessee

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I will say gil it was very clever to mask your arguments in catch-and-release forum with turning it into another attack by yours truly onto the emotional appeal of finer-things-in-life angling. Now back to the topic at hand....
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#1343249 - 05/27/09 08:35 AM Re: Catch and Release [Re: gil1]
AlabamaSwamper
12 Point


Registered: 06/03/04
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Loc: Southern Wayne CO and NW Alaba...

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THere has been plenty of lakes ruined by length limits as well as C&R practices.

Many states are now encouraging folks to keep fish, especially bass.

Wilson was all but ruined by the 15" rule and Bay SPrings has way to many spots.
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#1343261 - 05/27/09 08:47 AM Re: Catch and Release [Re: Kirk]
num1medic
14 Point


Registered: 07/13/05
Posts: 9006
Loc: Crossville,TN

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If its legal and edible, I keep and clean. Not only for me but my parents and grandparents love to eat fish too.
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#1343524 - 05/27/09 10:46 AM Re: Catch and Release [Re: num1medic]
Headhunter
10 Point


Registered: 11/14/00
Posts: 3924
Loc: LaVergne, TN USA

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Tubs, you are a first class moron.
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#1343526 - 05/27/09 10:48 AM Re: Catch and Release [Re: num1medic]
BGobbler
6 Point


Registered: 12/23/04
Posts: 586
Loc: Lawrenceburg

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alabama swamper i fish wilson on a weekly basis and you are exactly right it is still overstocked with little fish but is getting better ever year with new regs. I have friend who goes down there every tuesday and keeps a limit he feeds his family with them. I dont think there is a thing wrong with keeping fish as long as it is legal
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#1343549 - 05/27/09 11:09 AM Re: Catch and Release [Re: num1medic]
gil1
12 Point


Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 6319
Loc: Nashville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: Tubakka
I will say gil it was very clever to mask your arguments in catch-and-release forum with turning it into another attack by yours truly onto the emotional appeal of finer-things-in-life angling. Now back to the topic at hand....

But here's the thing, Ole Tartar Sauce - I didn't even bring it up. I wasn't talking about the Caney or even fly fishing. What I said to introduce the thread was...

 Originally Posted By: gil1
Instead of dissing the other side for what they believe, I'd love to hear specific reasons for your mentality on the subject. I don't give a crap what you think about your neighbor's methodologies. What makes you tick and why?

But you piled on like you always do. Those of us that don't care to fish like you are not allowed to have an opinion about catch and release because we can't handle the catch part of the equation. You also said that I don't know the fishery well enough to be allowed to have an opinion.

I never said I was Buck Perry, and Lord knows I'm not half the man you are, but I'm still allowed to have an opinion. How in the world do you fit that gargantuan ego inside that thick skull of yours?

The boy reminds me of an old Chessie I had (RIP). She had the drive to be a fine retriever, but she was just too hard-headed and headstrong to be worth a crap. I had to have her tubes tied and leave her at home when the ducks were flying. She never "got it," and neither will you Tubbs.

 Originally Posted By: rsimms
Gil ... give up. In truth, your signature says it all: "Many go fishing all their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after."

All fishermen figure that out sooner or later... some sooner, some later.

I think I WILL give up for now. Tomorrow afternoon, I will be wading on either the South Holston or the Watauga River. If I'm lucky, I'll catch a rainbow in the 12-13 inch range and eat it streamside for supper. I will leave the Ole Tartar Sauce and any other sides that leave a bad taste in your mouth at home. \:\)
_________________________
It is not the killing ...; it is the contest of skill and cunning. The true hunter counts his achievement in proportion to the effort involved and the fairness of the sport.

Dr. Saxton Pope

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#1343756 - 05/27/09 12:36 PM Re: Catch and Release [Re: gil1]
bowriter
Non-Typical


Registered: 08/31/02
Posts: 41520
Loc: Lebanon,TN USA

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Man aint it great to be summer again \:\)

I should have gotten Tubs, Bob Dennis' autograph. He is the largest collector of Spoonplugs in the country.
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Constipation has ruined many a good day. Not as many as stupidity, though.

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#1344679 - 05/27/09 11:55 PM Re: Catch and Release [Re: bowriter]
Tubakka
6 Point


Registered: 12/19/07
Posts: 782
Loc: Tennessee

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Gil, gil gil...the only reason my argument about your tactics has any validity is because you started a thread about catch and release...you have said repeatedly you don't care about catching big trout because you enjoy what you do, no matter what. Man, I don't care. Have a ball...but my issue comes with you trying to talk management of larger fish you don't interact with regularly. That was it. No ego, dude. None whatsoever, you brought it up. The only reason in this thread tactic was brought up because in many instances with the trout, the tactic you choose automatically prequalifies you for a certain size class. Period. If you wade shallow water tossing small flies, you're not fishing for big fish under normal circumstances. If you're cool with that, I'm cool with that. What I'm not cool with is that particular demographic being so outspoken about their assessment of the status of a fishery, or trying to tell people who do regularly catch nicer fish on other tactics what to do with those fish, or how it affects their catch of those fish that they don't target or apparently don't care to to begin with. Gil, don't try to turn me into a Snidely Whiplash here, man. It ain't going to work. Your argument has more flaws than a Polish submarine, but you still keep trying to close that screen door on my logic. I have no problem with what you or anyone else on that river does period, as long as you don't try to tell me who fishes it under a variety of conditions targeting nicer sized fish the status of the fishery. I'll gun you down everytime.
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#1344680 - 05/28/09 12:02 AM Re: Catch and Release [Re: Tubakka]
Tubakka
6 Point


Registered: 12/19/07
Posts: 782
Loc: Tennessee

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Gil, just to sumarize this, you've said you don't care to catch bigger fish because you don't care to adjust your tactics to target them. That's fine, dude. If you have fun doing what you're doing, that's great. In fact, on falling water sometime, I'd love to join you wading at Betty's Island at dusk. It's a blast! And there's always a shot at a nicer fish. But it's absolute ignorance when you are talking catch and release about fish you hardly ever catch because you don't even target them. That's not a slant at your ability; you're consciously choosing not to do what it takes to go after them, so what is your problem then? I have no problem with WHAT you do until you try to interject your opinion on a topic, the status of larger fish in the river, when you have absolutely no idea what it is. At all. No offense man. You keep saying how terrible harvest is and how much harvest has occurred and how its absolutely destroyed the fishery. Dude, I didn't plant hooks today, although the girl I took got a 30" rockfish on light tackle which was a hoot, but moved a trout that was bigger than the rock, and 3 over 25". Big fish are in there. Yet, you all persist in saying how there are no big browns and how much harvest has killed it. Yet, I see the exact opposite. I'm not saying that harvest is responsible for that, but obviously the fishery, as I stated, is built to sustain a level of harvest, and with the continued stocking, it would take a legion of anglers much more adept than me to clean out the river like you think is all too possible.
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#1344773 - 05/28/09 06:32 AM Re: Catch and Release [Re: Tubakka]
Taylor Administrator
10 Point


Registered: 09/10/07
Posts: 3061
Loc: Brownsville, Tennessee

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Gil, I think you are right depends on habitat and species.

In a lot of ways, and especially in small impoundments, catch-and-release is similar to the "don't shoot does" cry/belief that was instilled in us (and rightly so at the time) when deer herds were being restored.

It also closes many such small waters to opportunity. (But maybe that's greed?)

I have always thought it's ironic that people that put up "no fishing" signs, really "need" others (that want to fish) fishing/helping them manage their ponds, lakes, etc.

All that said, I still release a lot more than I keep. LOL.
Unless a lake or pond owner specifically says take 'em out, on most cases I take the "their his fish, I am just borrowing them" approach and toss them back. The whole time thinking, "man, he needs to take some of these out of here."

The trophies...? LOL (at what few I catch, and even then my standards are minimal). They all go back, if for no other reason than to hope somebody else will get to share that kind of fun.

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#1344883 - 05/28/09 07:06 AM Re: Catch and Release [Re: Taylor]
captain hook
10 Point


Registered: 11/20/07
Posts: 4340
Loc: Knoxville

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Wow, there is a lot to read in this, need my waders on for some of it, however \:\)

C&R is a good thing if not taken too far. Some resources can handle fish being taken, others cannot, and some species can while some cannot.

Killing big browns in our tailwaters is a tough call, as most folks are not even fishing for them, but the population and length of time it takes for them to get big is an issue. I am not talking 24" class fish, they are pretty common and fairly easy to catch if you target them. I am talking of 28"+ fish which could easily be 8 years old or older, however most folks don't have a prayer to cacth them consistently.

It is hard to manage a fishery for the largest end of the spectrum, it is better to manage for a good middle sector or fish, in trout it would be 14"-20" being common, and that is probably best done through slots rather then total catch and release.
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#1344907 - 05/28/09 07:19 AM Re: Catch and Release [Re: Taylor]
gil1
12 Point


Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 6319
Loc: Nashville, TN

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I give up, Tubbs. You win. All those guys that spend 200 days a year on the river since before you were born catching tons of 25-inchers are not allowed to have an opinion because they don't fish the way you do. Keep spreading the disease, dude. Hopefully, folks can learn that the best management practice is all about the depletion of the resource. Make sure to keep the tartar sauce in your tackle box, Tubbs.

Taylor - I totally agree. About once a year, I'll get to fish a well-managed private pond. The only reason I'm allowed to is because the fishery needs managing. Keep anything under 2 pounds, and toss the rest back. If you don't want to clean the little ones, toss them on the bank to die. Don't bother coming unless you follow the rules. Pretty interesting.

I fish one pond from time to time where you have to throw all the bluegills back but you are encouraged to take as many crappie as the law allows.

Anyway, I'm off to East TN to wet a line right now. Because the Caney's been dumping and I've been so busy, I haven't been able to wade since last fall. Can't wait to get into 'em if I'm so lucky. I'll report back!
_________________________
It is not the killing ...; it is the contest of skill and cunning. The true hunter counts his achievement in proportion to the effort involved and the fairness of the sport.

Dr. Saxton Pope

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#1345153 - 05/28/09 09:01 AM Re: Catch and Release [Re: gil1]
Tubakka
6 Point


Registered: 12/19/07
Posts: 782
Loc: Tennessee

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No, if "those guys" care to chime in, by all means. I'm longing for some people who seriously fish the fishery and know how to catch big trout better than me to come on and share info. But all I get is you, Gil. And you don't fish it 200 days a year, and you don't have lots of 25" fish to your credit. So...why do you keep talking about the status and management of those fish of which you aren't even aware?

Headhunter's right...

...most anglers will never be able ot target those larger trout, or even the mid range ones for that matter. It's hard to manage for osmething that hte limits don't really even apply to. I've said my share on what I think the limit should be. I stand by it. nuff said. And that's what you've never understood gil....if a fly guy is out there catching big fish consistently, I have TOTAL respect for him. I RESPECT the ability to catch big fish. But more often than not, what I've seen out of flyfishermen is excuses to justify using their tackle when they come home with pictures of tiny trout being held out 4 feet in front oft heir face for the camera while they bite down on their rod [Speaking of which, where is Bubbles in all this?...]. I've never been against the tactic, dude. You can't argue with something that works IF IT DOES. But you gotta show me, which there have been very little of. On this river, and under these conditions. That's not too much to ask. You yourself say "well I'm just happy doing what I'm doing." Hey man fine by me. Nothing personal, I just get tickled when you start talking about trophy management of fish when you aren't even aware of how many are actually in there now. I understand there are some great flyfisherman out there that use the tackle brilliantly and catch some giants, but it's their knowledge that catches the fish, not the tackle. The fact they do it on that tackle is all the more impressive, but still...it can be duplicated on spinning, I'm sure. I just lack the knowledge, but that's why I go. To learn.

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#1345371 - 05/28/09 10:51 AM Re: Catch and Release [Re: Tubakka]
bowriter
Non-Typical


Registered: 08/31/02
Posts: 41520
Loc: Lebanon,TN USA

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"Taylor - I totally agree. About once a year, I'll get to fish a well-managed private pond. The only reason I'm allowed to is because the fishery needs managing. Keep anything under 2 pounds, and toss the rest back."

Gil we are now keeping everything under 15 inches from #1 and #2 and anything 8under 18" from the others. The 15's will weigh close to 1.75 pounds. The bream are now close to a pound. The 18"s are bumping 3.

We are still getting a lot of braided line broke back in the timber. After five years, 1-2-4 are producing bass up to 15# Two weeks ago we had three over 10 brought in.
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Constipation has ruined many a good day. Not as many as stupidity, though.

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#1345447 - 05/28/09 11:37 AM Re: Catch and Release [Re: bowriter]
captain hook
10 Point


Registered: 11/20/07
Posts: 4340
Loc: Knoxville

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Tubs sorry to burst your bubble, but a 24" Brown trout is not that large a brown trout, not small but not a monster as you love to harp. 30"+ is what would be a big brown trout, now a 24" rainbow is a big rainbow.
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#1345916 - 05/28/09 04:11 PM Re: Catch and Release [Re: captain hook]
Tubakka
6 Point


Registered: 12/19/07
Posts: 782
Loc: Tennessee

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Um, Captain Hook...

...I believe I'm the one who called a 25" a dink, and called out BD for calling a trophy fish a fish that hasn't even reached half it's potential size in weight. I'm not the one who calls those fish trophies. I've never harped them up to be monsters. "hate to burst my bubble"...um er...where are you pics pal? You talk a big game, but I don't see no show on the court.

Seriously dude, where'd you even DERIVE that? You're just TRYING to be an jerk now.


Edited by Tubakka (05/28/09 04:14 PM)

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#1345939 - 05/28/09 04:28 PM Re: Catch and Release [Re: Tubakka]
B.D.
8 Point


Registered: 03/24/08
Posts: 1484
Loc: Hendersonville TN

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The definition of a "trophy" depends on where you sit.

A lot of people will call a 6 lb. bass a trophy, yet their "maximum growth potential" is at least 22 lbs according to the record books. The world record brook trout is 15 lbs. and the coaster brookies can get up to 6 or 7 lbs., but if you catch a 2 lb brook trout in the Smokies, everybody I know would agree it's a trophy. I'd have to ask Richard Simms to be sure, but I bet most of his customers would call a 30 lb. blue cat a trophy, but their "maximum growth potential" is at least 125 lbs. and probably more. I bet Richard wouldn't go around calling a 30 lb blue a "dink," if for no other reason than he demonstrates more modesty than that.

"Trophy" is a subjective term that has as much to do with ease and relative rarity of capture as anything else.

That said, in my view it's still goofy - and pure egocentrism - to walk around calling a 25-inch brown trout a "dink." You routinely catch trout on the Caney more than a few inches longer than that? Don't think so.

bd


Edited by Brian Dunigan (05/28/09 04:32 PM)

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#1345970 - 05/28/09 04:53 PM Re: Catch and Release [Re: B.D.]
Tubakka
6 Point


Registered: 12/19/07
Posts: 782
Loc: Tennessee

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No, but I'm not stupid enough to pretend like I've maxxed out the fishery at all. Or my own ability to grow as an angler. There were muskies swimming in Kinkaid over 54" long. I rarely took them over 44" and my biggest was 48.5". I didn't go around caling the 44's "trophy".

I think it's pure egocentrism when guides...GUIDES...throw up "trophy" pics on their page of 19-20-21" brown trout. I knew a guy who guided the caney who used to JACK spots off of a friend of mine who was an INCREDIBLE fly angler and then go guide on them...his biggest brown on the Caney was 19". Now there are guides out there that DO know what they're doing and can back it up, but guys like that taint the title.

Yes, the term trophy is relative...but not to a particular tactic. It's relative to the fishery's capability to produce. The Caney has produced browns over 20 pounds. I'm sure there are at least a couple in there pushing 30 or over. I don't think there's a world record, but stranger things have happened.

Somehow the idea was divulged that I think I'm God's gift to angling. I'm the first to admit that I have alot of knowledge to learn and grow, but at least I'm aware of it. Lots of poor souls fish their whole lives thinking that a 25" is a HUGE fish on the Caney it seems. And because of that they don't change their tactics to pursue larger, because they simply don't realize they exist I s'pose.

You notice I didn't call that 30" rockfish yesterday a trophy. It was a really nice fish for that tackle and what we were doing, but even that section of the river has produced 30-40-50 pound fish.

You used the brookie example...that's completely moot. Appalachian brookies are not the sea run labradors, more than tailrace rainbows are Great lakes steelhead. Same fish, but the environments create two different animals. Yeah a 2 lb appalachian brookie is a huge one. But that's a totally different strain in a totally different environment. Are you arguing just to be contradictory now? Surely Matlock is on or something else to occupy your bedfast. Haha jk.

If anything me calling them dinks is a level of humility in my own angling abilities. I 'm not catching the fish I know are there, and I want to learn how, but I'm not there yet. Anyone who gets offended by that...well maybe it'll get them thinking bigger too, I guess.

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#1345977 - 05/28/09 05:06 PM Re: Catch and Release [Re: Tubakka]
B.D.
8 Point


Registered: 03/24/08
Posts: 1484
Loc: Hendersonville TN

Offline
Why can't "trophy" be relative to a particular tactic? It's a subjective term. It does not mean a [censored] thing other than what a particular angler wants it to mean.

Last time I checked, nobody held an election and voted you Official Arbiter of What Fishing Words Mean. Just because you believe "trophy" starts at 20 lbs or something doesn't make you right and someone else wrong. If some other dude catches an 18" trout and it's his biggest fish and he wants to call it a trophy, who cares?

On the topic of guides, some people hire guides to teach them how to fly fish, or just to float them around all day with a fishing pole and feed them a shore lunch. If a guy who has never caught bigger than a 19" trout wants to go around claiming he'll put you on big fish, then yeah, I agree that's garbage. But if he says "Pay me $300 and I'll give you a fun day on the river and teach you how to fly fish," well, that's his market and there's nothing wrong with that. Maybe he can't find a 20-incher but he'll give you a 100 stockers a day. Some people would think that was the best fishing day ever. I know a ton of folks who'd rather have steady action from small fish all day than spend the day hunting for a handful of shots at big trout.

bd

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#1345982 - 05/28/09 05:12 PM Re: Catch and Release [Re: Tubakka]
captain hook
10 Point


Registered: 11/20/07
Posts: 4340
Loc: Knoxville

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 Originally Posted By: Tubakka
Um, Captain Hook...

...I believe I'm the one who called a 25" a dink, and called out BD for calling a trophy fish a fish that hasn't even reached half it's potential size in weight. I'm not the one who calls those fish trophies. I've never harped them up to be monsters. "hate to burst my bubble"...um er...where are you pics pal? You talk a big game, but I don't see no show on the court.

Seriously dude, where'd you even DERIVE that? You're just TRYING to be an jerk now.


I misread your comments, and you won't see very many pics of me ever, turkeys, deer, fish, not much of anything. Just not my thing, I don't need a lot of backslapping to feel good. Also, just not big on advertising what I am doing, and where I am doing it, there is nothing to gain and a whole lot to lose.

I agree that a 25" brown is half the weight of a true trophy brown trout, since most 25" fish will be around 7-8 lbs at best.


Edited by captain hook (05/28/09 05:12 PM)
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#1346168 - 05/28/09 08:31 PM Re: Catch and Release [Re: captain hook]
Football Hunter
Non-Typical


Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 25303
Loc: Wilson Co/Perry Co

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Didnt know CH misread comments on this thread too
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