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#1299781 - 04/22/09 12:30 PM Re: Depleting Gobbling Genetics??? [Re: smstone22]
REN
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Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 5343
Loc: Wilson County, TN

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 Originally Posted By: steven stone
There are areas here where turkeys simply will not gobble. They are mainly isolated flocks that dont get much interaction with other turkeys other than what is right in their immediate vicinity. They dont have to gobble to attract hens, they know right where everyone is already. Theres several places Ive hunted like this for years and have never heard a peep out of them besides spittin and drummin.


it would be debatable if that is due to "genetics" though or just a result of the area they live in and need.

if you relocated those birds to west TN with more birds would they gobble, i would guess they would be its a good question.
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#1299829 - 04/22/09 01:06 PM Re: Depleting Gobbling Genetics??? [Re: REN]
Huntaholic
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Registered: 10/22/00
Posts: 2157
Loc: Baxter, TN. U.S.A.

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Ive been concerned with that very question for years now and I tend to think YES we are "high grading" the population by killing the ones that gobble the most! I used to ask people this simple question: If you call up multiple birds at a time, do you shoot the one thats gobbling and strutting? Almost without fail, everybody wants to shoot the strutter. IMHO thats the one we DONT want to shoot! If you kill that silent bird chances are you can come back a day or two later and still kill the one that was gobbling, but if you kill him first, that other bird still wont gobble or work!
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#1299846 - 04/22/09 01:13 PM Re: Depleting Gobbling Genetics??? [Re: smstone22]
Rack_man
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Registered: 01/19/06
Posts: 254
Loc: Washington County

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I heard of pheasant hunters in the midwest saying that more and more pheasants are starting to try and run instead of flushing. They think its cuz the ones that flush are being shot leaving the runners to breed since the dogs sometimes losses there scent. I dont know though I aint a pheasant hunter
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#1299920 - 04/22/09 02:33 PM Re: Depleting Gobbling Genetics??? [Re: Huntaholic]
REN
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Registered: 10/24/07
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 Originally Posted By: Huntaholic
Ive been concerned with that very question for years now and I tend to think YES we are "high grading" the population by killing the ones that gobble the most! I used to ask people this simple question: If you call up multiple birds at a time, do you shoot the one thats gobbling and strutting? Almost without fail, everybody wants to shoot the strutter. IMHO thats the one we DONT want to shoot! If you kill that silent bird chances are you can come back a day or two later and still kill the one that was gobbling, but if you kill him first, that other bird still wont gobble or work!



no disrespect but that doesnt make much sense....why are the others not strutting or gobbling?? maybe because the one that is doing it is the dominate bird amongst them. I mean i have seen toms out in fields just eating along with hens NOT strutting but then can call them in and all the sudden they get 50yds out and go into strut so which category is that one in.

Deer grunt, does bleat and turkeys gobble. I see no biological reason why a turkey would genetically assosiate gobbling with danger. It is not the gobbling that is getting them killed alot of the times it is the desire to breed. So are we saying that we are killing all the hetero turkeys and only the ones who dont want to mate or like males will be the only ones left. i mean those wont come into hen calls for sure lol

I am just not really seeing the picture here on how one can think in years to come turkeys may not gobble because we are killing all the ones that do.


are geese going to stop honking because we are killing the geese that do? are Elk going to stop bugling because we kill the ones that are doing it now. TO ME it makes no sense. Rattle snakes yeah because it is a adaptation of survival but turkeys gobbling or not will not make a huge impact on survival so there is no real need to adapt
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#1299925 - 04/22/09 02:36 PM Re: Depleting Gobbling Genetics??? [Re: Rack_man]
megalomaniac
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Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 5055
Loc: Mississippi

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C'mon down here to South MS and turkey hunt. You'll quickly realize that the birds just don't talk after flydown. Sure, you'll get a few gobbles on the roost and a courtesy gobble right after flydown, but that's it. It's extremely rare to call in a gobbling bird here. They almost always come in silent.

The reason? We've actually had a population of turkeys here that dates back to pre- white man. Although the population got low back in the early 1900's, they were never wiped out. Organized hunting for over 50 years. That many years of pressure I believe has resulted in the lack of gobbling.

Heck, it's so boring that I don't even hunt down here much. I'd much rather go back to TN where I can get a bird to respond at 10AM, 2PM, or even 4 PM.

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#1299929 - 04/22/09 02:39 PM Re: Depleting Gobbling Genetics??? [Re: REN]
megalomaniac
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Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 5055
Loc: Mississippi

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 Originally Posted By: REN
are Elk going to stop bugling because we kill the ones that are doing it now. TO ME it makes no sense.


Go hunt elk in Colorado on private land vs public land. You'll see quite a difference in the amount of bugling. Same species, but exhibited behaviour is completely different. Is it genetics or simply adaptation to hunting pressure? Who knows, but it is real.

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#1299937 - 04/22/09 02:56 PM Re: Depleting Gobbling Genetics??? [Re: megalomaniac]
REN
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Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 5343
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 Originally Posted By: megalomaniac
 Originally Posted By: REN
are Elk going to stop bugling because we kill the ones that are doing it now. TO ME it makes no sense.


Go hunt elk in Colorado on private land vs public land. You'll see quite a difference in the amount of bugling. Same species, but exhibited behaviour is completely different. Is it genetics or simply adaptation to hunting pressure? Who knows, but it is real.



i am not debating it is REAL, my point is it being GENETIC or a result of hunting pressure? same can be said for whitetail on public land anywhere they are hunted they obviously act different. Basically is the issue you have in southern MS a result of the area and environment they live in or the bird themselves? IF you moved those birds to middle or west TN with other birds would they gobble more? i would say absolutely because i see no biological reason why they wouldn't. I have no proof or data to back up my theory just the knowledge of the species I leaned in college (i did go to Auburn so that knowledge may not mean much lol)
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#1299940 - 04/22/09 03:00 PM Re: Depleting Gobbling Genetics??? [Re: megalomaniac]
CopperHead77
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Registered: 08/20/07
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I just never have had to deal with birds not gobbling day after day after day,yes there are days where they don't respond and the woods are quiet but usually they'll pick back up in a day or two,and if you go a week without hearing a bird chances are there aren't any in that area,that's been my experience around here anyway.
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#1299959 - 04/22/09 03:13 PM Re: Depleting Gobbling Genetics??? [Re: CopperHead77]
REN
Good ol' Boys "Team Grizzly"
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Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 5343
Loc: Wilson County, TN

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But whitetail I dont see that as a genetic effect which is what the original post is asking. I have been quite a few days this year that once the bird hit the ground not another word the rest of the day but that is just what happens sometimes, and sometimes it can be days or weeks for some i guess.

Just to be clear I could be very wrong as i have been before this is just my personal opinion.

I guess the real question would be IS gobbling to breed a GENETIC trait and would the species of turkey have a reason to associate gobbling with danger and evolve/adapt to not doing it anymore to allow the species to have a much higher survival rate? Throughout history the majority of animals that evolved from there normal traits did so to basically allow the species to survive, so would a turkey NOT gobbling allow such an impact that it would allow the species to survive at a much higher capacity? Granted there are exceptions to the evolution of animals and in some species the adaptation was small but the overall plan was to allow the animal to survive in a changing environment ie rattle snakes not rattling as mentioned before.

again just my .2cents
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#1300140 - 04/22/09 05:10 PM Re: Depleting Gobbling Genetics??? [Re: REN]
ghosthunter
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Registered: 11/30/04
Posts: 3659
Loc: chattanooga

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 Originally Posted By: REN
TO ME it makes no sense. Rattle snakes yeah because it is a adaptation of survival but turkeys gobbling or not will not make a huge impact on survival so there is no real need to adapt

The snakes not rattling may be mother nature's way of survival for the rattle snakes but I doubt that the snakes are smart enough to say, hey if I rattle I will get killed. Same for the birds. The birds I kill, I'm sure the same is for about eveyone else, are the ones that gobble. If they don't gobble I really don't have anything to hunt, therefore leaving the non gobbling birds to survive. Now if this is the situation I'm not sure and I certainly hope not, but it does make a lot of sense. BTW a gobbler doesn't need to gobble to find hens. The hens will do enough talking themselves.


Edited by ghosthunter (04/22/09 05:10 PM)
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