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#1290926 - 04/15/09 10:40 AM Re: Veteran Wildlife Officer Kills Turkey Hunter [Re: ]
Winchester
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Registered: 12/05/03
Posts: 27865
Loc: TN

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Definitely not worth a life either way!
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#1291231 - 04/15/09 03:32 PM Re: Veteran Wildlife Officer Kills Turkey Hunter [Re: FLIPPER]
easy45
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Registered: 11/06/07
Posts: 30388
Loc: Chester County

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 Originally Posted By: FLIPPER
It is a sad situation, foul play or justified.

The one question I have is why "deadly" force was used?

It seems that the WO could have shot him somewhere besides in the chest and then disarmed him.


All leo's are taught to shoot to kill, you never wound somebody on purpose
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#1291293 - 04/15/09 04:23 PM Re: Veteran Wildlife Officer Kills Turkey Hunter [Re: medwc]
RUGER Administrator
Bambi Killa
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Registered: 11/19/99
Posts: 4106395
Loc: TN

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 Originally Posted By: medwc
 Originally Posted By: FLIPPER
It is a sad situation, foul play or justified.

The one question I have is why "deadly" force was used?

It seems that the WO could have shot him somewhere besides in the chest and then disarmed him.

This is a common thought when the bad-guy profile is not met. LEO, GW and such can't give a life or death threat 2nd or 3rd tries. I am sure it may seem like it a lot of times. But when someone has a gun on you and is threating your life. You can't just wound them and wait to see if they can still shot you. It doesn't work like that.

And not to sound harsh, I agree with you on "It is a sad situation, foul play or justified."



Yep.
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#1291328 - 04/15/09 04:47 PM Re: Veteran Wildlife Officer Kills Turkey Hunter [Re: easy45]
pathfindr92
6 Point


Registered: 10/24/04
Posts: 957
Loc: Johnson City

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 Originally Posted By: easy45
 Originally Posted By: FLIPPER
It is a sad situation, foul play or justified.

The one question I have is why "deadly" force was used?

It seems that the WO could have shot him somewhere besides in the chest and then disarmed him.


All leo's are taught to shoot to kill, you never wound somebody on purpose



It is also illegal. It is called "malicious wounding." In a shooting situation, LE or civilian, you may only shoot to "stop the threat," which is accomplished by shooting at vital areas. As easy45 said, this is what LEOs are trained to do, and it is what is preached in self-defense classes across the country.

You will be sued (and you will lose) and possibly charged with a crime if you intentionally "shoot to wound." This also means you may not knock someone down and "finish them off" if they have been incapacitated.

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#1291380 - 04/15/09 05:32 PM Re: Veteran Wildlife Officer Kills Turkey Hunter [Re: pathfindr92]
FLIPPER
10 Point


Registered: 09/07/02
Posts: 4821
Loc: Niota, Tn

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So if this guy feared for his life and saw it as a "life or death" situation, he doesn't have the right to protect himself or his property from a LEO or GW? And its illegal?

But Joe Blow can pull a gun on him and he DOES have the right to protect himself? And its legal?
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Why kill two birds with one stone when you can kill six with a shotgun?

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#1291880 - 04/15/09 09:41 PM Re: Veteran Wildlife Officer Kills Turkey Hunter [Re: buckdead]
ddgonehntn
6 Point


Registered: 11/19/08
Posts: 823
Loc: cocke county, tn.

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 Originally Posted By: buckdead
 Originally Posted By: Hillbilly Hunter
Something doesn't sound right about this story....


thats what i was thinkin when i read it.

Ditto!
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#1292785 - 04/16/09 05:48 PM Re: Veteran Wildlife Officer Kills Turkey Hunter [Re: FLIPPER]
pathfindr92
6 Point


Registered: 10/24/04
Posts: 957
Loc: Johnson City

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 Originally Posted By: FLIPPER
So if this guy feared for his life and saw it as a "life or death" situation, he doesn't have the right to protect himself or his property from a LEO or GW? And its illegal?


Only if the "average rational person" would see it the same way. He would have to convince 12 jurors that this GW was going to kill or seriously harm him without just cause. A bank robber is going to be "in fear for his life" if SWAT members are pointing guns at him, but he doesnt get to claim self-defense for shooting one of them because he is commiting a crime, and his actions and/or appearance (i.e. holding a gun, fitting the description of the armed robber) warrants SWAT officers to regard him as a threat.

When it comes to self-defense, private citizens and LEOs are under the same basic set of regulations. The difference is that LEOs during the legal performance of their duties, can do things that private citizens cannot, (i.e. kick your door in to arrest you) as long as they ID themselves as LEOs. You cant shoot a SWAT team operator that breaks into your house yelling "Police!" and claim self defense. In the same way, you cant shoot a GW tresspassing on your land b/c his job duties give him the right to inspect for game violations (love it or hate it, the law grants him that power).

You cannot use deadly force to defend property in TN. I think TX and a few other states allow it though.

I dont mean to be long-winded, just trying to explain everything so it's easier to understand.

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#1292834 - 04/16/09 06:30 PM Re: Veteran Wildlife Officer Kills Turkey Hunter [Re: pathfindr92]
ewc
8 Point


Registered: 02/01/02
Posts: 2272
Loc: Knoxville

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If you believe you are in eminent danger, you can shoot someone who yells "police". A jury will decide your fate.

Having a badge and yelling "police", while busting down my door will get a few of us killed. Myself included most likely - FOR NO REASON.

Show your id to my attorney and call me first.

We'll then talk and sort things out.

Too many times, LEO could solve things by talking instead of being aggressive. This case is a prime example. Who needs to die over a wildlife violation? Bug out and catch him later. He's 76, he's not going far-

I don't do illegal stuff, therefore police do not visit my house. So bust down my door and I would feel like I was in eminent danger.

Yell "police" and I will still have that feeling.

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#1293229 - 04/16/09 10:38 PM Re: Veteran Wildlife Officer Kills Turkey Hunter [Re: ewc]
pathfindr92
6 Point


Registered: 10/24/04
Posts: 957
Loc: Johnson City

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Im not saying you're wrong for feeling that way, I'm just telling you what the law says. And you are definately right, a jury will decide your fate if you shoot a cop in your house.

In some cases, you would win. Obviously, if you cannot identify the police as police, you cant be held liable. If you should have been able to see that they were police with uniforms and badges, and they told you so, you wont fare too well in court.

But remember, you arent a criminal. I dont see the police breaking down your door too often. I was referring more to the raid on a crack house where some guy shoots at the cops and tries to pull the self-defense story.

As far as talking things through instead of being aggressive, I agree with you. Its apparently "cool" to be a jerk for many officers these days, especially younger officers. However, there are times when you dont have the luxury of trying to talk things over. Maybe this GW was too aggressive and shot this old man without cause. Then again, and old man with a shotgun is still a man with a shotgun. Just because he's old, doesnt mean he's harmless. (Think about it: R. Lee Ermey is 65. He's old. He's still very deadly with a gun in his hand.) This old man may have pointed that gun at that officer and threatened him. I dont know, I wasnt there. I dont have enough evidence to make the determination of whether this GW did the right thing or not. I just know we should all hope that he did.

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#1293254 - 04/16/09 11:51 PM Re: Veteran Wildlife Officer Kills Turkey Hunter [Re: Buck Assassin]
SALECREEKHUNTER
8 Point


Registered: 08/19/08
Posts: 1089
Loc: Sale Creek (backwoods), TN

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wow \:\(
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