Tndeer Logo

Page 5 of 8 « First<34567>Last »
Topic Options
#1268236 - 03/30/09 01:23 PM Re: 12 in crappie minimum [Re: B.D.]
Anonymous TnDeer Old Timer
Unregistered





"The negative, as I've said about a dozen times, would be that a large number of crappie would die of natural causes without attaining the minimum size limit. You'd essentially be making the crappie on a lot of TN lakes about an 80% catch and release fishery."

brian, seriously, could you explain why they would die? do they overpopulate and stunt or what? are predators eating them? would that apply to ky lake and reelfoot which is where my focus is? let's forget the rest of them for this discussion.



"Actually, last time you brought this subject up, I posted a link to fisheries data that DID show it wouldn't work. You're just ignoring it because it doesn't tell you what you want to hear - that's not the same as "no proof.""

i will go back and read it again.

"Anyway, you're the one wanting to change the status quo and introduce a very restrictive size limit. You have the burden of proof: until you come up with some evidence to refute the fisheries data - other than your own halfassed "belief" that it would work - why should anyone take you seriously?"

no, twra changed the status quo with creel limits and size restrictions. they already did it. i just want to adjust it some more. actually my change from ten to twelve may be a less drastic move than no limits to what they have now?


"See, this is where your post gets just plain goofy. This doesn't have anything to do with "common sense," this has to do with you ignoring a giant heap of scientific evidence because it doesn't tell you what you want to hear."

i just believe you can sample and shock and study all you want but until you try you can't know if something will work. doesn't hurt to get all the info you can.


"The biologists at TWRA spend HUGE amounts of time and effort, year after year, doing creel surveys, shocking studies, and other sampling methods, all to find out the ideal balance between growth rate, harvest, fishing pressure, etc."

again, doesn't mean their info isn't foolproof and flawed in some way. something you don't mention is their goals. is twra's goal to maximize fish production, fishing day opportunities, license revenue, or average creel weight? how you apply the info to which goal may make a difference in what is recommended. just because 10 in minimum will work doesn't mean a 12 won't.

you can throw out the gotta have proof thing all you want. i ain't gonna have it. what i am asking from you or someone else who makes their living in the business is a documented case where a 12" minumum was applied to a lake of equal size and fertility, fishing pressure, etc., that failed, and why it failed. you know where all the info is. let me see it.

my biggest concern is that something be done head off another cut in the creel limit.

Top
#1268247 - 03/30/09 01:29 PM Re: 12 in crappie minimum [Re: BuckWild]
Anonymous TnDeer Old Timer
Unregistered



 Originally Posted By: BuckWild
 Originally Posted By: deerlawyer
 Originally Posted By: BuckWild
I was catching 1.5 to 1.75 lb crappie pretty regular on the TN River back in the 80's when there were no size limits. Then I move to Memphis and start fishing Sardis and Enid and Arkabutla and am still catching 1.5 to 1.75 lb crappie on a regular basis. I caught 2 limits on Sardis last week. Fish are the same size they were before the 12 inch min went into effect. Just had 40 fish instead of 60 fish because they lowered the limit.
I fish Mississippi because it's close, not because it's got a 12 in min.


So what's your point? \:D \:D


my point is, i caught good fish as you in the eighties, but not so often now. do you still catch em in tn as you did in the eighties? not nearly as much pressure then. i disagree that the fish on sardis are no bigger. half of our forty fish limit last week weighed a solid two pounds on an electronic scale.


How long have you been fishing Sardis? The reason I ask is because year before last the lake never came up to summer pool. The entire back 1/3 of the lake bed grew up in weeds six to eight feet tall. Last year, the lake came up fast and all the weeds got covered up with water. The lake was literally unfishable during the spawn except for maybe Teckville back to the dam. I've been waiting for this fishing season for a while. Everybody that fishes down there knows this will be a banner season because of the last two off years. It has nothing to do with a 12 inch minimum size limit. I've got a house at Sardis and my phone won't stop ringing. I've got two friends from Illinois that are coming down this week to fish.Everybody that fishes it has been waiting for this year to catch the big fish. The lake has been covered up every time I've gone even though the water is still pretty low.
Do you really think the 12 inch limit has made such a difference in only one year on Sardis? If so, you are a fool. My personal best string of Crappie out of there weighed a little over 87 lbs. 30 fish caught on a single hand pole in less than 2 hours back up in Lower Graham area.
About The TN River fish. I also have a house on Birdsong Creek. Last year with Sardis being messed up, my "group" of family and friends fished out of there last year. We caught limits daily and had a lot of good fish. Were they as big as Sardis fish? No, but that is a moot point. You can't compare apples and oranges.If you think Sardis fish are big, drive on down to Grenada or Enid. \:D But I caught 12 to 15 inch fish consistently in Birdsong Creek and bigger fish out in the Lake. We fished up at Springville and Mansford Island and south down to the mouth of the Duck River and the chute south of Rockport Island. We did notice that the fish were bigger out in the lake. But there were fewer people fishing these areas. Some mornings I'd have 4 or 5 boats in the cove behind my house for most of the day. Even those people will catch a few fish by accident every now and then. I've been fishing Sardis Lake every year for the last 19 years. There's always been big fish there. This year there are just more of them because of the past two years of low harvests.

Have fun.


great info BW. so direct and to the point- do you think an 11 or 12 inch mimimum on the tn river would improve the size and numbers of big fish caught?

Top
#1268264 - 03/30/09 01:41 PM Re: 12 in crappie minimum [Re: 4onaside]
Anonymous TnDeer Old Timer
Unregistered



 Originally Posted By: 4onaside
 Originally Posted By: Trapper John
 Originally Posted By: deerlawyer
 Originally Posted By: Trapper John
 Originally Posted By: deerlawyer

a man should apply some pride to his fishing just like his job, and throw those little tater chips back. leave the ten inchers for the bank fishermen sitting on buckets, or make em illegal.


This is part of the reason your proposal has turned into a joke. How can we possibly take you seriously when you demean other fishermen who don't measure up to your "standards?" Talking down to the "bank fishermen" and the "tater chip" comment...it makes you a bad joke. Combine that with no scientific backup and the posts above will be the result on here and at a TWRC meeting.


typical liberal response trap. don't expect excellence from anyone, just make everyone happy. very quickly becoming the american way. you and the other liberals on this website are the bad joke.


Unfortunately for you this really isn't a political argument. Getting this type of deal to be taken seriously requires scientific backing and support from the masses. Right now you have neither.

Since the troll smell has become prevalent in this thread I'll leave it at that.
Trapper, of course this guy is a troll. He makes some statement about yours being a typical liberal response, but he is obviously even confused about the definitions of what is a liberal and a conservative. His idea of a liberal apparently is anyone who dares to question that he knows best for us all. But in effect, you and those of us who think the present deal is OK are conservatives, status quo, and he is a liberal wanting change, change, change. Hey that sounds familiar. Funny how a guy like that can come in and stir up a bunch of crap, not by his ideas, but by basically telling everyone up front that we don't know what we are talking about. His statement about the TWRA just pacifying the masses is mind blowing. If they are just pacifying the masses, they are doing a great job. THAT'S THEIR JOB IN FISHERIES MANAGEMENT TO SATISFY THE MASSES. This lawyer? wants them to pacify the few, namely him and a tiny handful of malcontents. To .... with the majority.


hey 4, if the "present deal" of high personal income taxes and government agencies buying all the land they can get their hands on with taxpayer money is your idea of conservative, then you are not only ignorant, you are a full blown socialist.

so, you run your mouth about how trollish my opinion is. how is the "present deal" of a ten inch min and a thirty fish limit not trollish as well? is it a different size troll? or was that troll your idea so it is not a troll? what is it? put that super logic to work and let's hear it.

Top
#1268355 - 03/30/09 03:09 PM Re: 12 in crappie minimum [Re: ]
4onaside
12 Point


Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 5094
Loc: Jackson,Tn

Offline
 Originally Posted By: deerlawyer
 Originally Posted By: 4onaside
 Originally Posted By: Trapper John
 Originally Posted By: deerlawyer
 Originally Posted By: Trapper John
 Originally Posted By: deerlawyer

a man should apply some pride to his fishing just like his job, and throw those little tater chips back. leave the ten inchers for the bank fishermen sitting on buckets, or make em illegal.


This is part of the reason your proposal has turned into a joke. How can we possibly take you seriously when you demean other fishermen who don't measure up to your "standards?" Talking down to the "bank fishermen" and the "tater chip" comment...it makes you a bad joke. Combine that with no scientific backup and the posts above will be the result on here and at a TWRC meeting.


typical liberal response trap. don't expect excellence from anyone, just make everyone happy. very quickly becoming the american way. you and the other liberals on this website are the bad joke.


Unfortunately for you this really isn't a political argument. Getting this type of deal to be taken seriously requires scientific backing and support from the masses. Right now you have neither.

Since the troll smell has become prevalent in this thread I'll leave it at that.
Trapper, of course this guy is a troll. He makes some statement about yours being a typical liberal response, but he is obviously even confused about the definitions of what is a liberal and a conservative. His idea of a liberal apparently is anyone who dares to question that he knows best for us all. But in effect, you and those of us who think the present deal is OK are conservatives, status quo, and he is a liberal wanting change, change, change. Hey that sounds familiar. Funny how a guy like that can come in and stir up a bunch of crap, not by his ideas, but by basically telling everyone up front that we don't know what we are talking about. His statement about the TWRA just pacifying the masses is mind blowing. If they are just pacifying the masses, they are doing a great job. THAT'S THEIR JOB IN FISHERIES MANAGEMENT TO SATISFY THE MASSES. This lawyer? wants them to pacify the few, namely him and a tiny handful of malcontents. To .... with the majority.


hey 4, if the "present deal" of high personal income taxes and government agencies buying all the land they can get their hands on with taxpayer money is your idea of conservative, then you are not only ignorant, you are a full blown socialist.

so, you run your mouth about how trollish my opinion is. how is the "present deal" of a ten inch min and a thirty fish limit not trollish as well? is it a different size troll? or was that troll your idea so it is not a troll? what is it? put that super logic to work and let's hear it.
You're chasin your tail now. lol Buckwild just ate you alive. I'm sure when you put out all of your BS, about the 12"limit miraculous results at Sardis, it never occured to you that someone would be on here that had much more experience at that lake and obviously knows a great deal more about the facts than you. Surprise, surprise. Take all of your liberal/conservative/whatever crap up to the political forum. You're the one that tried to inject that term into a fishing forum. Calling Trapper a liberal when you haven't the foggiest about his politics, nor should it be a factor in a fishing conversation. I suppose that its just a term that you thought offensive that you could call someone, when someone doesn't lockstep into your cockamanie ideas. Just curious. Are you in fact a lawyer? lol "TWRA just pacifying the masses". I would think that they would be pleased that would be said about their efforts, even by someone so misinformed to think that is an insult.
_________________________

Not my circus, not my monkeys.
Polish proverb

Top
#1268474 - 03/30/09 04:32 PM Re: 12 in crappie minimum [Re: 4onaside]
Anonymous TnDeer Old Timer
Unregistered



 Originally Posted By: 4onaside
 Originally Posted By: deerlawyer
 Originally Posted By: 4onaside
 Originally Posted By: Trapper John
 Originally Posted By: deerlawyer
 Originally Posted By: Trapper John
 Originally Posted By: deerlawyer

a man should apply some pride to his fishing just like his job, and throw those little tater chips back. leave the ten inchers for the bank fishermen sitting on buckets, or make em illegal.


This is part of the reason your proposal has turned into a joke. How can we possibly take you seriously when you demean other fishermen who don't measure up to your "standards?" Talking down to the "bank fishermen" and the "tater chip" comment...it makes you a bad joke. Combine that with no scientific backup and the posts above will be the result on here and at a TWRC meeting.


typical liberal response trap. don't expect excellence from anyone, just make everyone happy. very quickly becoming the american way. you and the other liberals on this website are the bad joke.


Unfortunately for you this really isn't a political argument. Getting this type of deal to be taken seriously requires scientific backing and support from the masses. Right now you have neither.

Since the troll smell has become prevalent in this thread I'll leave it at that.
Trapper, of course this guy is a troll. He makes some statement about yours being a typical liberal response, but he is obviously even confused about the definitions of what is a liberal and a conservative. His idea of a liberal apparently is anyone who dares to question that he knows best for us all. But in effect, you and those of us who think the present deal is OK are conservatives, status quo, and he is a liberal wanting change, change, change. Hey that sounds familiar. Funny how a guy like that can come in and stir up a bunch of crap, not by his ideas, but by basically telling everyone up front that we don't know what we are talking about. His statement about the TWRA just pacifying the masses is mind blowing. If they are just pacifying the masses, they are doing a great job. THAT'S THEIR JOB IN FISHERIES MANAGEMENT TO SATISFY THE MASSES. This lawyer? wants them to pacify the few, namely him and a tiny handful of malcontents. To .... with the majority.


hey 4, if the "present deal" of high personal income taxes and government agencies buying all the land they can get their hands on with taxpayer money is your idea of conservative, then you are not only ignorant, you are a full blown socialist.

so, you run your mouth about how trollish my opinion is. how is the "present deal" of a ten inch min and a thirty fish limit not trollish as well? is it a different size troll? or was that troll your idea so it is not a troll? what is it? put that super logic to work and let's hear it.
You're chasin your tail now. lol Buckwild just ate you alive. I'm sure when you put out all of your BS, about the 12"limit miraculous results at Sardis, it never occured to you that someone would be on here that had much more experience at that lake and obviously knows a great deal more about the facts than you. Surprise, surprise. Take all of your liberal/conservative/whatever crap up to the political forum. You're the one that tried to inject that term into a fishing forum. Calling Trapper a liberal when you haven't the foggiest about his politics, nor should it be a factor in a fishing conversation. I suppose that its just a term that you thought offensive that you could call someone, when someone doesn't lockstep into your cockamanie ideas. Just curious. Are you in fact a lawyer? lol "TWRA just pacifying the masses". I would think that they would be pleased that would be said about their efforts, even by someone so misinformed to think that is an insult.



i enjoyed buck's post, however, he doesn't know the 12 min is/will not help sardis either. my point in this whole discussion. tenn will never know til they try it, i don't care how many samples they take.

i used liberal to describe someone's getting all bent out of shape about politically incorrectly describing someone content with a six in crappie, or how i p.i.c. refer to the little fish. when in reality that person just didn't like me questioning any twra rule already in place. both makes someone a flaming liberal in my opinion. just dicuss the issue. don't cry cause i called a fish a tater chip!!!

4, i knew you would dodge the 10 inch/30 fish rule already being in place argument. for anyone to logically argue against my 12 in rule, you would also have to argue against the 10/30 rule. isn't it too restrictive for the tater chip fishermen? oh yea, there is science backing the 10/30, but not the 12. please. so far all you have done is talked about trolls, which you boys with the multi-thousand posts seem to relish so much. it is really silly.

Top
#1268542 - 03/30/09 05:21 PM Re: 12 in crappie minimum [Re: ]
4onaside
12 Point


Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 5094
Loc: Jackson,Tn

Offline
 Originally Posted By: deerlawyer
 Originally Posted By: 4onaside
 Originally Posted By: deerlawyer
 Originally Posted By: 4onaside
 Originally Posted By: Trapper John
 Originally Posted By: deerlawyer
 Originally Posted By: Trapper John
 Originally Posted By: deerlawyer

a man should apply some pride to his fishing just like his job, and throw those little tater chips back. leave the ten inchers for the bank fishermen sitting on buckets, or make em illegal.


This is part of the reason your proposal has turned into a joke. How can we possibly take you seriously when you demean other fishermen who don't measure up to your "standards?" Talking down to the "bank fishermen" and the "tater chip" comment...it makes you a bad joke. Combine that with no scientific backup and the posts above will be the result on here and at a TWRC meeting.


typical liberal response trap. don't expect excellence from anyone, just make everyone happy. very quickly becoming the american way. you and the other liberals on this website are the bad joke.


Unfortunately for you this really isn't a political argument. Getting this type of deal to be taken seriously requires scientific backing and support from the masses. Right now you have neither.

Since the troll smell has become prevalent in this thread I'll leave it at that.
Trapper, of course this guy is a troll. He makes some statement about yours being a typical liberal response, but he is obviously even confused about the definitions of what is a liberal and a conservative. His idea of a liberal apparently is anyone who dares to question that he knows best for us all. But in effect, you and those of us who think the present deal is OK are conservatives, status quo, and he is a liberal wanting change, change, change. Hey that sounds familiar. Funny how a guy like that can come in and stir up a bunch of crap, not by his ideas, but by basically telling everyone up front that we don't know what we are talking about. His statement about the TWRA just pacifying the masses is mind blowing. If they are just pacifying the masses, they are doing a great job. THAT'S THEIR JOB IN FISHERIES MANAGEMENT TO SATISFY THE MASSES. This lawyer? wants them to pacify the few, namely him and a tiny handful of malcontents. To .... with the majority.


hey 4, if the "present deal" of high personal income taxes and government agencies buying all the land they can get their hands on with taxpayer money is your idea of conservative, then you are not only ignorant, you are a full blown socialist.

so, you run your mouth about how trollish my opinion is. how is the "present deal" of a ten inch min and a thirty fish limit not trollish as well? is it a different size troll? or was that troll your idea so it is not a troll? what is it? put that super logic to work and let's hear it.
You're chasin your tail now. lol Buckwild just ate you alive. I'm sure when you put out all of your BS, about the 12"limit miraculous results at Sardis, it never occured to you that someone would be on here that had much more experience at that lake and obviously knows a great deal more about the facts than you. Surprise, surprise. Take all of your liberal/conservative/whatever crap up to the political forum. You're the one that tried to inject that term into a fishing forum. Calling Trapper a liberal when you haven't the foggiest about his politics, nor should it be a factor in a fishing conversation. I suppose that its just a term that you thought offensive that you could call someone, when someone doesn't lockstep into your cockamanie ideas. Just curious. Are you in fact a lawyer? lol "TWRA just pacifying the masses". I would think that they would be pleased that would be said about their efforts, even by someone so misinformed to think that is an insult.



i enjoyed buck's post, however, he doesn't know the 12 min is/will not help sardis either. my point in this whole discussion. tenn will never know til they try it, i don't care how many samples they take.

i used liberal to describe someone's getting all bent out of shape about politically incorrectly describing someone content with a six in crappie, or how i p.i.c. refer to the little fish. when in reality that person just didn't like me questioning any twra rule already in place. both makes someone a flaming liberal in my opinion. just dicuss the issue. don't cry cause i called a fish a tater chip!!!

4, i knew you would dodge the 10 inch/30 fish rule already being in place argument. for anyone to logically argue against my 12 in rule, you would also have to argue against the 10/30 rule. isn't it too restrictive for the tater chip fishermen? oh yea, there is science backing the 10/30, but not the 12. please. so far all you have done is talked about trolls, which you boys with the multi-thousand posts seem to relish so much. it is really silly.
Very eloquent. Once again, are you a lawyer? No dodging anything here, 30/10 or whatever. If I had my druthers, there are certain waters in which I think that the 10" rule is counterproductive. These are some generally relatively small lakes, i.e. Browns Creek Lake in Natchez Trace where I have probably caught a thousand black crappie, most of which have run from 8 to 9 and half inches. The size does not change from year to year, or age class to age class. Now, in practice, since there is zilch enforcement, there are many sub 10 inchers removed. Just not by me. It speaks for itself that the same management principles applicable to say Pickwick or any large reservoir should not apply to a 167 acre lake. Or a 90 acre lake such as Maple Creek Lake in the same park, or many similar lakes. But the TWRA makes no differenciation, so I can live with it. Ironically, I very rarely keep any fish anyway, but I would like to be able to legally do so, if I so choose. So if I do not keep fish, why would I be opposed to a 12" limit. I'm not. Nor 10" nor 8". So its not the message, its the messenger. You come on here and immediately start demeaning people, as if no one but you has a clue. The only excuse for talking to people the way that you do, is if in fact you are a lawyer. Then I understand.
_________________________

Not my circus, not my monkeys.
Polish proverb

Top
#1268720 - 03/30/09 07:53 PM Re: 12 in crappie minimum [Re: ]
mallard239
4 Point


Registered: 01/25/09
Posts: 199
Loc: Tn

Offline
so guys, i am fairly new here. what is a troll?
Top
#1269041 - 03/30/09 09:44 PM Re: 12 in crappie minimum [Re: mallard239]
4onaside
12 Point


Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 5094
Loc: Jackson,Tn

Offline
 Originally Posted By: mallard239
so guys, i am fairly new here. what is a troll?
Basically, a poster whose sole intent is to stir up a bunch of garbage.
_________________________

Not my circus, not my monkeys.
Polish proverb

Top
#1269340 - 03/31/09 07:03 AM Re: 12 in crappie minimum [Re: ]
BuckWild
TnDeer Old Timer
12 Point


Registered: 09/27/99
Posts: 5659
Loc: Memphis or Birdsong Creek

Offline
My thoughts on a 12 in minimum in the TN River.
Don't think it would help increase the overall size of the fish.
In my opinion, what has hurt the TN River fishery is the TN River itself. Way back when...when there was no size limit and no creel limit. We used to catch crappie by the hundreds, just about every time we fished there. We fished the areas from Hog Creek to the south all the way up to Springville on Big Sandy. Caught nice fish, big fish and lots of them. The main reason we stopped fishing on the TN River was because after the TomBigbee Waterway was opened, we noticed much greater fluctuations in the water levels on the river. I can remember rolling into Hog Creek, where we had a cabin, on a Friday afternoon and the water would be way back in the buck brush. Just perfect for spawning crappie. Next morning wake up and head for the ramp only to find they had dropped the water 6 feet. Now there had always been fluctuations in the water levels due to generating at the dam, but nothing like this. This was every fricking week. Crappie spawning in the shallow water just to have their eggs dry up and die once the water dropped. After 4 or 5 years of this cycle, we noticed a huge reduction in both size and amount of fish caught. All this started with the TNTom waterway being opened. Water had to be kept in that ditch to keep commercial barge traffic flowing. We gave up on the river and started fishing mainly MS River oxbows, like Open lake and Chisolm Lake and Cold Creek. We caught some of the biggest crappie we've ever caught out of Open Lake. I moved to Memphis and discovered all the MS Corp lakes.

There are still decent crappie in the TN River, cause we caught a bunch last year. Most of the ones we caught last year were in 2 foot of water or less. Then the river started falling after being up for about two weeks. If that river would be stable for 3 to 4 weeks during March and April every year, you'd see more numbers of fish surviving the spring hatch and that would equate to bigger fish all around.

JMHO...35 years of Crappie fishing and I'll be going tomorrow. \:D
_________________________
I'm not a gynecologist but I'll take a look

Top
#1269406 - 03/31/09 07:52 AM Re: 12 in crappie minimum [Re: ]
AlabamaSwamper
12 Point


Registered: 06/03/04
Posts: 5094
Loc: Southern Wayne CO and NW Alaba...

Offline
Look,

Tennessee has already done enough stupid things with the bass regs. Still waiting on an explanation with "scientific" reasoning why Pickwick has a 15" and 18" rule.

Anyone with any sense knows that the grass is why the fishing is so good now. Of course, I guess all those big fish caught in Alabama and MS waters probably swam from Tennessee.

If you get a 12" crappie reg, you can bet it won't have anything to do with a "biological" reason. Get enough of the "money" to want it and you got it.
_________________________
Official BTR Scorer in NW Alabama and southern middle Tennessee

http://twitter.com/AlabamaSwamper

Top
Page 5 of 8 « First<34567>Last »


Moderator:  RUGER, Unicam, CBU93, stretch, Bobby G, Cuttin Caller, Kimber45, Mrs.Unicam, Crappie Luck 
Hop to:
Top Posters
4104855
RUGER
86179
Deer Assassin
64740
BSK
60386
Crappie Luck
51368
spitndrum
Newest Members
piglet84, Bowfire985, TieCampBuckSlayer, ChuckNorris, Breesor1
13085 Registered Users
Who's Online
84 registered (shopson, BigDaddyFreeze, BamaProud, tasaman, catman529, woodyard, 10 invisible) and 150 anonymous users online.
Forum Stats
13085 Members
42 Forums
88237 Topics
1033628 Posts

Max Online: 788 @ 11/11/13 08:06 PM
Moon Phase
CURRENT MOON
July
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3 4 5
6 7 8 9 10 11 12
13 14 15 16 17 18 19
20 21 22 23 24 25 26
27 28 29 30 31
Forum Donations
The TnDeer.Com Deer Talk Forum is for Tennessee Deer Hunters by Tennessee Deer Hunters. If you enjoy using our Talk Forum and would like to contribute to help in it's up-keep. Just submit your contribution by clicking on the DONATE button below and paying with PayPal or a major credit card. Any amount is much appreciated. Thanks for your support!

TN Burn Safe

Generated in 0.246 seconds in which 0.017 seconds were spent on a total of 14 queries. Zlib compression enabled.