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#1262650 - 03/27/09 10:26 AM 12 in crappie minimum
Anonymous TnDeer Old Timer
Unregistered



to all real crappie fishermen-

call your wildlife commisioners and tell them you are sick of having to go to mississippi to consistently catch decent size fish, and that you would like to see a 12 in minimum for crappie, and to leave the creel limit at thirty. also tell them you don't buy that crap that our fish won't grow fast enough, and that you are sick of whiners who say it won't work and they can't catch em that big. also tell em you hate seeing the millions of dollars of revenue pour into mississippi due to lower expectations of twra fishery management.

if eight, nine, and ten inchers satisfy you, then you should fish on a farm pond or on the bank sitting on a bucket.

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#1262651 - 03/27/09 10:29 AM Re: 12 in crappie minimum [Re: ]
Trapper John
TnDeer Old Timer
16 Point


Registered: 03/13/99
Posts: 11778
Loc: La Vergne,TN/Decaturville, TN

Offline
N'ah.
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#1262680 - 03/27/09 10:55 AM Re: 12 in crappie minimum [Re: Trapper John]
go_okfishin
6 Point


Registered: 12/14/03
Posts: 682
Loc: Bellevue

Offline
 Originally Posted By: Trapper John
N'ah.


Double N'ah.
_________________________
always lookin

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#1262685 - 03/27/09 11:01 AM Re: 12 in crappie minimum [Re: ]
Physiksgeek
4 Point


Registered: 11/21/05
Posts: 366
Loc: Clarksville, Tn

Offline
 Originally Posted By: deerlawyer
to all real crappie fishermen-

call your wildlife commisioners and tell them you are sick of having to go to mississippi to consistently catch decent size fish, and that you would like to see a 12 in minimum for crappie, and to leave the creel limit at thirty. also tell them you don't buy that crap that our fish won't grow fast enough, and that you are sick of whiners who say it won't work and they can't catch em that big. also tell em you hate seeing the millions of dollars of revenue pour into mississippi due to lower expectations of twra fishery management.

if eight, nine, and ten inchers satisfy you, then you should fish on a farm pond or on the bank sitting on a bucket.


Man.....you my friend have mastered the written word. Your eloquent comments were so inclusive and down to earth that it made me quit what I was doing and call my wildlife commisioner and regurgitate every unsubstantiated fact you told me too. No sir.....no err of superiority there. Thanks for taking up the cause of "real crappie fishermen"!
_________________________
That's gonna leave a mark...

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#1262735 - 03/27/09 11:50 AM Re: 12 in crappie minimum [Re: ]
Marlin308
4 Point


Registered: 03/07/07
Posts: 189
Loc: Williamson County, TN

Offline
And yet another reason to hate lawyers...
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#1263191 - 03/27/09 02:10 PM Re: 12 in crappie minimum [Re: ]
B.D.
8 Point


Registered: 03/24/08
Posts: 1484
Loc: Hendersonville TN

Offline
We've been over this. A 12" size limit would be pointless in Tennessee because the growth rate is too slow. In most places in Tennessee, it takes as long (or longer) for a crappie to reach 10" as it does for a Mississippi crappie to grow to 12". A lot of our crappie die of natural causes (not harvest) without ever growing to 12". Putting a 12" size limit on them won't work if they're simply not growing that big.

Look at Tellico. That lake has one of the slowest growth rates in the state. Lots of small crappie but they don't live long enough to grow to 10" at their growth rate. Putting a 10" size limit on that lake hasn't increased the number of keepers because it takes 5 years for a Tellico crappie to grow to 10" and their average life expectancy is closer to 4 years. A 10" limit there gives you plenty of 8-9" throwbacks but not more keepers.

If they grew fast and lived forever we could put a 20" size limit on them and catch giant crappie all day long, but that's not how it works.

 Originally Posted By: deerlawyer
also tell them you don't buy that crap that our fish won't grow fast enough


Do you have any science to back that up? You can "not buy" it all day long, but TWRA has years of sampling data that say otherwise.

You might as well call NASA and tell them that you "don't buy that crap" about the moon being make of rocks, because you believe it is made of cheese.

bd


Edited by Brian Dunigan (03/27/09 02:14 PM)

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#1263197 - 03/27/09 02:12 PM Re: 12 in crappie minimum [Re: Marlin308]
B.D.
8 Point


Registered: 03/24/08
Posts: 1484
Loc: Hendersonville TN

Offline
 Originally Posted By: Marlin308
And yet another reason to hate lawyers...


Hey, don't hate us all based on that one guy! There are lawyers for every side of an issue. \:\)

bd

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#1263393 - 03/27/09 03:38 PM Re: 12 in crappie minimum [Re: B.D.]
stik
"Popcorn"
18 Point


Registered: 03/12/99
Posts: 20887
Loc: lenoir city,tn

Offline
NO NO NO **** NO!!!!
_________________________
experienced hunters know its not just a bushy white tail, its a big middle finger.

nothing makes a fish bigger than almost being caught


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#1263475 - 03/27/09 04:43 PM Re: 12 in crappie minimum [Re: B.D.]
mike243
16 Point


Registered: 09/06/06
Posts: 11657
Loc: east tn

Offline
 Originally Posted By: Brian Dunigan
We've been over this. A 12" size limit would be pointless in Tennessee because the growth rate is too slow. In most places in Tennessee, it takes as long (or longer) for a crappie to reach 10" as it does for a Mississippi crappie to grow to 12". A lot of our crappie die of natural causes (not harvest) without ever growing to 12". Putting a 12" size limit on them won't work if they're simply not growing that big.

Look at Tellico. That lake has one of the slowest growth rates in the state. Lots of small crappie but they don't live long enough to grow to 10" at their growth rate. Putting a 10" size limit on that lake hasn't increased the number of keepers because it takes 5 years for a Tellico crappie to grow to 10" and their average life expectancy is closer to 4 years. A 10" limit there gives you plenty of 8-9" throwbacks but not more keepers.

If they grew fast and lived forever we could put a 20" size limit on them and catch giant crappie all day long, but that's not how it works.

 Originally Posted By: deerlawyer
also tell them you don't buy that crap that our fish won't grow fast enough


Do you have any science to back that up? You can "not buy" it all day long, but TWRA has years of sampling data that say otherwise.

You might as well call NASA and tell them that you "don't buy that crap" about the moon being make of rocks, because you believe it is made of cheese.

bd

a fellar could almost change the word crappie for deer ;\) \:\) ,mike243
_________________________
prayers sent for our friends in need every day

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#1263558 - 03/27/09 05:29 PM Re: 12 in crappie minimum [Re: ]
ewc
8 Point


Registered: 02/01/02
Posts: 2245
Loc: Knoxville

Offline
 Originally Posted By: deerlawyer
to all real crappie fishermen-

call your wildlife commisioners and tell them you are sick of having to go to mississippi to consistently catch decent size fish, and that you would like to see a 12 in minimum for crappie, and to leave the creel limit at thirty. also tell them you don't buy that crap that our fish won't grow fast enough, and that you are sick of whiners who say it won't work and they can't catch em that big. also tell em you hate seeing the millions of dollars of revenue pour into mississippi due to lower expectations of twra fishery management.

if eight, nine, and ten inchers satisfy you, then you should fish on a farm pond or on the bank sitting on a bucket.


Amen. We also need an age limit on doves. I'm thinking 4-

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#1263752 - 03/27/09 09:07 PM Re: 12 in crappie minimum [Re: ewc]
scn
14 Point


Registered: 02/05/03
Posts: 9783
Loc: Brentwood, TN US

Offline




Edited by scn (03/27/09 09:12 PM)
Edit Reason: better left unsaid
_________________________
Life is too short to fish with a dead cricket.

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#1263982 - 03/27/09 10:44 PM Re: 12 in crappie minimum [Re: scn]
4onaside
12 Point


Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 5115
Loc: Jackson,Tn

Offline
 Originally Posted By: scn
" better left unsaid"

I couldn't have said that better myself.
_________________________

Not my circus, not my monkeys.
Polish proverb

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#1264796 - 03/28/09 03:17 PM Re: 12 in crappie minimum [Re: ]
pathfindr92
6 Point


Registered: 10/24/04
Posts: 957
Loc: Johnson City

Offline
LAWL
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#1264960 - 03/28/09 05:12 PM Re: 12 in crappie minimum [Re: pathfindr92]
ewc
8 Point


Registered: 02/01/02
Posts: 2245
Loc: Knoxville

Offline
What about the dove?
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#1264975 - 03/28/09 05:20 PM Re: 12 in crappie minimum [Re: ewc]
Trapper John
TnDeer Old Timer
16 Point


Registered: 03/13/99
Posts: 11778
Loc: La Vergne,TN/Decaturville, TN

Offline
 Originally Posted By: ewc
What about the dove?


Can we add a wingspan minimum to that age restriction?

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#1265048 - 03/28/09 06:10 PM Re: 12 in crappie minimum [Re: Trapper John]
Anonymous TnDeer Old Timer
Unregistered



so what would be the negative to a 12 in min? overpopulation? what is it? there is no proof it wouldn't work, just a theory. i do know crappie grow big in the tn river and i firmly believe it would work. the 15 fish creel limit is a joke. that is only gonna stop people from going, unless they live near the lake.

a man should apply some pride to his fishing just like his job, and throw those little tater chips back. leave the ten inchers for the bank fishermen sitting on buckets, or make em illegal.

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#1265053 - 03/28/09 06:19 PM Re: 12 in crappie minimum [Re: ]
Trapper John
TnDeer Old Timer
16 Point


Registered: 03/13/99
Posts: 11778
Loc: La Vergne,TN/Decaturville, TN

Offline
 Originally Posted By: deerlawyer

a man should apply some pride to his fishing just like his job, and throw those little tater chips back. leave the ten inchers for the bank fishermen sitting on buckets, or make em illegal.


This is part of the reason your proposal has turned into a joke. How can we possibly take you seriously when you demean other fishermen who don't measure up to your "standards?" Talking down to the "bank fishermen" and the "tater chip" comment...it makes you a bad joke. Combine that with no scientific backup and the posts above will be the result on here and at a TWRC meeting.

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#1265250 - 03/28/09 07:51 PM Re: 12 in crappie minimum [Re: ewc]
4onaside
12 Point


Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 5115
Loc: Jackson,Tn

Offline
 Originally Posted By: ewc
What about the dove?
I am unclear as to whether the 4 year minimum applies to all doves, or only Eurasian Collared doves. What think ye, ambulance chaser?
_________________________

Not my circus, not my monkeys.
Polish proverb

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#1265594 - 03/28/09 10:10 PM Re: 12 in crappie minimum [Re: Trapper John]
Anonymous TnDeer Old Timer
Unregistered



 Originally Posted By: Trapper John
 Originally Posted By: deerlawyer

a man should apply some pride to his fishing just like his job, and throw those little tater chips back. leave the ten inchers for the bank fishermen sitting on buckets, or make em illegal.


This is part of the reason your proposal has turned into a joke. How can we possibly take you seriously when you demean other fishermen who don't measure up to your "standards?" Talking down to the "bank fishermen" and the "tater chip" comment...it makes you a bad joke. Combine that with no scientific backup and the posts above will be the result on here and at a TWRC meeting.


typical liberal response trap. don't expect excellence from anyone, just make everyone happy. very quickly becoming the american way. you and the other liberals on this website are the bad joke.

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#1265615 - 03/28/09 10:22 PM Re: 12 in crappie minimum [Re: B.D.]
Anonymous TnDeer Old Timer
Unregistered



 Originally Posted By: Brian Dunigan
We've been over this. A 12" size limit would be pointless in Tennessee because the growth rate is too slow. In most places in Tennessee, it takes as long (or longer) for a crappie to reach 10" as it does for a Mississippi crappie to grow to 12". A lot of our crappie die of natural causes (not harvest) without ever growing to 12". Putting a 12" size limit on them won't work if they're simply not growing that big.

Look at Tellico. That lake has one of the slowest growth rates in the state. Lots of small crappie but they don't live long enough to grow to 10" at their growth rate. Putting a 10" size limit on that lake hasn't increased the number of keepers because it takes 5 years for a Tellico crappie to grow to 10" and their average life expectancy is closer to 4 years. A 10" limit there gives you plenty of 8-9" throwbacks but not more keepers.

If they grew fast and lived forever we could put a 20" size limit on them and catch giant crappie all day long, but that's not how it works.

 Originally Posted By: deerlawyer
also tell them you don't buy that crap that our fish won't grow fast enough


Do you have any science to back that up? You can "not buy" it all day long, but TWRA has years of sampling data that say otherwise.

You might as well call NASA and tell them that you "don't buy that crap" about the moon being make of rocks, because you believe it is made of cheese.

bd


well, let's be specific then. 12 in from pickwick north on the tenn river system to ky line, and on reelfoot. you can't deny those lakes are capable of growing twelve inchers can you? with the pressure they get, they need some relief. if they don't try that, the 15 fish crap is gonna suck. don't recall ever seeing a twenty inch crappie in tenn, but have seen many twelves, fourteens, and a few sixteens, so, your comment makes no sense, while mine is a plausible option if twra had the ba!!s and could take the heat.

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#1265616 - 03/28/09 10:24 PM Re: 12 in crappie minimum [Re: ]
keith35611
4 Point


Registered: 05/12/06
Posts: 243
Loc: Athens,AL

Offline
 Originally Posted By: deerlawyer
i do know crappie grow big in the tn river and i firmly believe it would work.


This is the part that makes your whole argument insane.Most of,if not all of the TN river in AL has a 9" minimum length.

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#1265627 - 03/28/09 10:30 PM Re: 12 in crappie minimum [Re: keith35611]
mallard239
4 Point


Registered: 01/25/09
Posts: 199
Loc: Tn

Offline
i am in favor of a twelve in minimum where fertile enough. there is too much pressure on public lakes these days to allow crappie to reach that size on their own. if twelve is a bad idea, why is ten a good idea? who says an eight incher doesn't eat good? it's all about what you expect from your fishery. i also agree that the tenn river from pickwick to ky could grow them, as well as reelfoot. my 2 cents.
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#1265636 - 03/28/09 10:33 PM Re: 12 in crappie minimum [Re: keith35611]
Anonymous TnDeer Old Timer
Unregistered



 Originally Posted By: keith35611
 Originally Posted By: deerlawyer
i do know crappie grow big in the tn river and i firmly believe it would work.


This is the part that makes your whole argument insane.Most of,if not all of the TN river in AL has a 9" minimum length.


no logic there keith. what is in place in alabama has nothing to do with what i am in favor of in tn.

i still haven't heard anyone say why it wouldn't or couldn't work?

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#1265651 - 03/28/09 10:42 PM Re: 12 in crappie minimum [Re: B.D.]
Anonymous TnDeer Old Timer
Unregistered



 Originally Posted By: Brian Dunigan


Do you have any science to back that up? You can "not buy" it all day long, but TWRA has years of sampling data that say otherwise.


brian, are you saying they have science it wouldn't work, or do they have science that it is not necessary? all over the state, or just east tn? completely different things. i do understand that it might not work on clear, infertile lakes in middle and east tennessee, but that may not apply in the better lakes.

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#1265658 - 03/28/09 10:49 PM Re: 12 in crappie minimum [Re: ]
4onaside
12 Point


Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 5115
Loc: Jackson,Tn

Offline
 Originally Posted By: deerlawyer
 Originally Posted By: keith35611
 Originally Posted By: deerlawyer
i do know crappie grow big in the tn river and i firmly believe it would work.


This is the part that makes your whole argument insane.Most of,if not all of the TN river in AL has a 9" minimum length.


no logic there keith. what is in place in alabama has nothing to do with what i am in favor of in tn.

i still haven't heard anyone say why it wouldn't or couldn't work?
What's your favorite method of fishing. Hmmmmm,it couldn't be trolling could it?
_________________________

Not my circus, not my monkeys.
Polish proverb

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#1265665 - 03/28/09 10:56 PM Re: 12 in crappie minimum [Re: B.D.]
Anonymous TnDeer Old Timer
Unregistered



 Originally Posted By: Brian Dunigan
We've been over this. A 12" size limit would be pointless in Tennessee because the growth rate is too slow. In most places in Tennessee, it takes as long (or longer) for a crappie to reach 10" as it does for a Mississippi crappie to grow to 12". A lot of our crappie die of natural causes (not harvest) without ever growing to 12". Putting a 12" size limit on them won't work if they're simply not growing that big.

Look at Tellico. That lake has one of the slowest growth rates in the state. Lots of small crappie but they don't live long enough to grow to 10" at their growth rate. Putting a 10" size limit on that lake hasn't increased the number of keepers because it takes 5 years for a Tellico crappie to grow to 10" and their average life expectancy is closer to 4 years. A 10" limit there gives you plenty of 8-9" throwbacks but not more keepers.

If they grew fast and lived forever we could put a 20" size limit on them and catch giant crappie all day long, but that's not how it works.

 Originally Posted By: deerlawyer
also tell them you don't buy that crap that our fish won't grow fast enough


Do you have any science to back that up? You can "not buy" it all day long, but TWRA has years of sampling data that say otherwise.

You might as well call NASA and tell them that you "don't buy that crap" about the moon being make of rocks, because you believe it is made of cheese.

bd


by the way brian, just spoke with a friend who fishes nothing but tellico. he tells me the fish are running much better since the minimum was put in place. common sense trumps science just about 100% of the time. also, don't believe everything you read in a book or that twra tells you.

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#1265668 - 03/28/09 10:58 PM Re: 12 in crappie minimum [Re: 4onaside]
Anonymous TnDeer Old Timer
Unregistered



 Originally Posted By: 4onaside
 Originally Posted By: deerlawyer
 Originally Posted By: keith35611
 Originally Posted By: deerlawyer
i do know crappie grow big in the tn river and i firmly believe it would work.


This is the part that makes your whole argument insane.Most of,if not all of the TN river in AL has a 9" minimum length.


no logic there keith. what is in place in alabama has nothing to do with what i am in favor of in tn.

i still haven't heard anyone say why it wouldn't or couldn't work?
What's your favorite method of fishing. Hmmmmm,it couldn't be trolling could it?


why don't you go back to talking about doves? just as relevent as this comment.

Top
#1266392 - 03/29/09 02:22 PM Re: 12 in crappie minimum [Re: ]
4onaside
12 Point


Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 5115
Loc: Jackson,Tn

Offline
 Originally Posted By: deerlawyer
 Originally Posted By: 4onaside
 Originally Posted By: deerlawyer
 Originally Posted By: keith35611
 Originally Posted By: deerlawyer
i do know crappie grow big in the tn river and i firmly believe it would work.


This is the part that makes your whole argument insane.Most of,if not all of the TN river in AL has a 9" minimum length.


no logic there keith. what is in place in alabama has nothing to do with what i am in favor of in tn.

i still haven't heard anyone say why it wouldn't or couldn't work?
What's your favorite method of fishing. Hmmmmm,it couldn't be trolling could it?


why don't you go back to talking about doves? just as relevent as this comment.
Of course, my comment is relevant. Just asked a question about your favorite method of fishing. Do you like to troll?
_________________________

Not my circus, not my monkeys.
Polish proverb

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#1266781 - 03/29/09 06:47 PM Re: 12 in crappie minimum [Re: ]
Trapper John
TnDeer Old Timer
16 Point


Registered: 03/13/99
Posts: 11778
Loc: La Vergne,TN/Decaturville, TN

Offline
 Originally Posted By: deerlawyer
 Originally Posted By: Trapper John
 Originally Posted By: deerlawyer

a man should apply some pride to his fishing just like his job, and throw those little tater chips back. leave the ten inchers for the bank fishermen sitting on buckets, or make em illegal.


This is part of the reason your proposal has turned into a joke. How can we possibly take you seriously when you demean other fishermen who don't measure up to your "standards?" Talking down to the "bank fishermen" and the "tater chip" comment...it makes you a bad joke. Combine that with no scientific backup and the posts above will be the result on here and at a TWRC meeting.


typical liberal response trap. don't expect excellence from anyone, just make everyone happy. very quickly becoming the american way. you and the other liberals on this website are the bad joke.


Unfortunately for you this really isn't a political argument. Getting this type of deal to be taken seriously requires scientific backing and support from the masses. Right now you have neither.

Since the troll smell has become prevalent in this thread I'll leave it at that.

Top
#1266961 - 03/29/09 07:39 PM Re: 12 in crappie minimum [Re: Trapper John]
BuckWild
TnDeer Old Timer
12 Point


Registered: 09/27/99
Posts: 5659
Loc: Memphis or Birdsong Creek

Offline
I was catching 1.5 to 1.75 lb crappie pretty regular on the TN River back in the 80's when there were no size limits. Then I move to Memphis and start fishing Sardis and Enid and Arkabutla and am still catching 1.5 to 1.75 lb crappie on a regular basis. I caught 2 limits on Sardis last week. Fish are the same size they were before the 12 inch min went into effect. Just had 40 fish instead of 60 fish because they lowered the limit.
I fish Mississippi because it's close, not because it's got a 12 in min.


So what's your point? \:D \:D
_________________________
I'm not a gynecologist but I'll take a look

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#1266988 - 03/29/09 07:42 PM Re: 12 in crappie minimum [Re: ]
BuckWild
TnDeer Old Timer
12 Point


Registered: 09/27/99
Posts: 5659
Loc: Memphis or Birdsong Creek

Offline
I'd be for a two pole per person max in a boat or on the bank.

I lived in Washington state many years ago and that was a highly enforced regulation. I'd love to see that regulation in effect in Tennessee and Mississippi.
_________________________
I'm not a gynecologist but I'll take a look

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#1267090 - 03/29/09 08:05 PM Re: 12 in crappie minimum [Re: BuckWild]
stik
"Popcorn"
18 Point


Registered: 03/12/99
Posts: 20887
Loc: lenoir city,tn

Offline
 Originally Posted By: BuckWild
I'd be for a two pole per person max in a boat or on the bank.

I lived in Washington state many years ago and that was a highly enforced regulation. I'd love to see that regulation in effect in Tennessee and Mississippi.


why?
_________________________
experienced hunters know its not just a bushy white tail, its a big middle finger.

nothing makes a fish bigger than almost being caught


Top
#1267103 - 03/29/09 08:09 PM Re: 12 in crappie minimum [Re: BuckWild]
Anonymous TnDeer Old Timer
Unregistered



 Originally Posted By: BuckWild
I was catching 1.5 to 1.75 lb crappie pretty regular on the TN River back in the 80's when there were no size limits. Then I move to Memphis and start fishing Sardis and Enid and Arkabutla and am still catching 1.5 to 1.75 lb crappie on a regular basis. I caught 2 limits on Sardis last week. Fish are the same size they were before the 12 inch min went into effect. Just had 40 fish instead of 60 fish because they lowered the limit.
I fish Mississippi because it's close, not because it's got a 12 in min.


So what's your point? \:D \:D


my point is, i caught good fish as you in the eighties, but not so often now. do you still catch em in tn as you did in the eighties? not nearly as much pressure then. i disagree that the fish on sardis are no bigger. half of our forty fish limit last week weighed a solid two pounds on an electronic scale.

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#1267139 - 03/29/09 08:17 PM Re: 12 in crappie minimum [Re: 4onaside]
Anonymous TnDeer Old Timer
Unregistered



 Originally Posted By: 4onaside
 Originally Posted By: deerlawyer
 Originally Posted By: 4onaside
 Originally Posted By: deerlawyer
 Originally Posted By: keith35611
 Originally Posted By: deerlawyer
i do know crappie grow big in the tn river and i firmly believe it would work.


This is the part that makes your whole argument insane.Most of,if not all of the TN river in AL has a 9" minimum length.


no logic there keith. what is in place in alabama has nothing to do with what i am in favor of in tn.

i still haven't heard anyone say why it wouldn't or couldn't work?
What's your favorite method of fishing. Hmmmmm,it couldn't be trolling could it?


why don't you go back to talking about doves? just as relevent as this comment.
Of course, my comment is relevant. Just asked a question about your favorite method of fishing. Do you like to troll?


of course, your comment is irrelevant. try just stating your opinion if you have one, or some "science" as to why my thoughts are not practical. calling me a troll is irrelevant. why not just go ahead and say "if you disaggree with twra, then you are not welcome here"?

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#1267273 - 03/29/09 08:46 PM Re: 12 in crappie minimum [Re: Trapper John]
Anonymous TnDeer Old Timer
Unregistered



 Originally Posted By: Trapper John
 Originally Posted By: deerlawyer
 Originally Posted By: Trapper John
 Originally Posted By: deerlawyer

a man should apply some pride to his fishing just like his job, and throw those little tater chips back. leave the ten inchers for the bank fishermen sitting on buckets, or make em illegal.


This is part of the reason your proposal has turned into a joke. How can we possibly take you seriously when you demean other fishermen who don't measure up to your "standards?" Talking down to the "bank fishermen" and the "tater chip" comment...it makes you a bad joke. Combine that with no scientific backup and the posts above will be the result on here and at a TWRC meeting.


typical liberal response trap. don't expect excellence from anyone, just make everyone happy. very quickly becoming the american way. you and the other liberals on this website are the bad joke.


Unfortunately for you this really isn't a political argument. Getting this type of deal to be taken seriously requires scientific backing and support from the masses. Right now you have neither.

Since the troll smell has become prevalent in this thread I'll leave it at that.


trap, you are right. i don't do scientific research. don't have access to taxpayer dollars like some folks, although i still haven't seen any so called proof against my ideas. not a realistic expectation, just my opinion. i don't really expect excellence out of twra anymore. just pacify the masses. since half the sportsmen in my end of the state are trolls(someone who disagrees with twra), the odor you smell must be that of brainwashed twra desciple sitting at your computer.

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#1267380 - 03/29/09 09:28 PM Re: 12 in crappie minimum [Re: ]
mallard239
4 Point


Registered: 01/25/09
Posts: 199
Loc: Tn

Offline
deerlawyer, you could word your posts better, but your points are valid. it is disheartening to see perfectly able bodied men tossing ten inchers in a cooler.
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#1267507 - 03/29/09 10:47 PM Re: 12 in crappie minimum [Re: Trapper John]
4onaside
12 Point


Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 5115
Loc: Jackson,Tn

Offline
 Originally Posted By: Trapper John
 Originally Posted By: deerlawyer
 Originally Posted By: Trapper John
 Originally Posted By: deerlawyer

a man should apply some pride to his fishing just like his job, and throw those little tater chips back. leave the ten inchers for the bank fishermen sitting on buckets, or make em illegal.


This is part of the reason your proposal has turned into a joke. How can we possibly take you seriously when you demean other fishermen who don't measure up to your "standards?" Talking down to the "bank fishermen" and the "tater chip" comment...it makes you a bad joke. Combine that with no scientific backup and the posts above will be the result on here and at a TWRC meeting.


typical liberal response trap. don't expect excellence from anyone, just make everyone happy. very quickly becoming the american way. you and the other liberals on this website are the bad joke.


Unfortunately for you this really isn't a political argument. Getting this type of deal to be taken seriously requires scientific backing and support from the masses. Right now you have neither.

Since the troll smell has become prevalent in this thread I'll leave it at that.
Trapper, of course this guy is a troll. He makes some statement about yours being a typical liberal response, but he is obviously even confused about the definitions of what is a liberal and a conservative. His idea of a liberal apparently is anyone who dares to question that he knows best for us all. But in effect, you and those of us who think the present deal is OK are conservatives, status quo, and he is a liberal wanting change, change, change. Hey that sounds familiar. Funny how a guy like that can come in and stir up a bunch of crap, not by his ideas, but by basically telling everyone up front that we don't know what we are talking about. His statement about the TWRA just pacifying the masses is mind blowing. If they are just pacifying the masses, they are doing a great job. THAT'S THEIR JOB IN FISHERIES MANAGEMENT TO SATISFY THE MASSES. This lawyer? wants them to pacify the few, namely him and a tiny handful of malcontents. To .... with the majority.
_________________________

Not my circus, not my monkeys.
Polish proverb

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#1267665 - 03/30/09 05:58 AM Re: 12 in crappie minimum [Re: stik]
BuckWild
TnDeer Old Timer
12 Point


Registered: 09/27/99
Posts: 5659
Loc: Memphis or Birdsong Creek

Offline
 Originally Posted By: stik
 Originally Posted By: BuckWild
I'd be for a two pole per person max in a boat or on the bank.

I lived in Washington state many years ago and that was a highly enforced regulation. I'd love to see that regulation in effect in Tennessee and Mississippi.


why?
To piss off the trollers. \:D \:D
_________________________
I'm not a gynecologist but I'll take a look

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#1267701 - 03/30/09 06:22 AM Re: 12 in crappie minimum [Re: ]
BuckWild
TnDeer Old Timer
12 Point


Registered: 09/27/99
Posts: 5659
Loc: Memphis or Birdsong Creek

Offline
 Originally Posted By: deerlawyer
 Originally Posted By: BuckWild
I was catching 1.5 to 1.75 lb crappie pretty regular on the TN River back in the 80's when there were no size limits. Then I move to Memphis and start fishing Sardis and Enid and Arkabutla and am still catching 1.5 to 1.75 lb crappie on a regular basis. I caught 2 limits on Sardis last week. Fish are the same size they were before the 12 inch min went into effect. Just had 40 fish instead of 60 fish because they lowered the limit.
I fish Mississippi because it's close, not because it's got a 12 in min.


So what's your point? \:D \:D


my point is, i caught good fish as you in the eighties, but not so often now. do you still catch em in tn as you did in the eighties? not nearly as much pressure then. i disagree that the fish on sardis are no bigger. half of our forty fish limit last week weighed a solid two pounds on an electronic scale.


How long have you been fishing Sardis? The reason I ask is because year before last the lake never came up to summer pool. The entire back 1/3 of the lake bed grew up in weeds six to eight feet tall. Last year, the lake came up fast and all the weeds got covered up with water. The lake was literally unfishable during the spawn except for maybe Teckville back to the dam. I've been waiting for this fishing season for a while. Everybody that fishes down there knows this will be a banner season because of the last two off years. It has nothing to do with a 12 inch minimum size limit. I've got a house at Sardis and my phone won't stop ringing. I've got two friends from Illinois that are coming down this week to fish.Everybody that fishes it has been waiting for this year to catch the big fish. The lake has been covered up every time I've gone even though the water is still pretty low.
Do you really think the 12 inch limit has made such a difference in only one year on Sardis? If so, you are a fool. My personal best string of Crappie out of there weighed a little over 87 lbs. 30 fish caught on a single hand pole in less than 2 hours back up in Lower Graham area.
About The TN River fish. I also have a house on Birdsong Creek. Last year with Sardis being messed up, my "group" of family and friends fished out of there last year. We caught limits daily and had a lot of good fish. Were they as big as Sardis fish? No, but that is a moot point. You can't compare apples and oranges.If you think Sardis fish are big, drive on down to Grenada or Enid. \:D But I caught 12 to 15 inch fish consistently in Birdsong Creek and bigger fish out in the Lake. We fished up at Springville and Mansford Island and south down to the mouth of the Duck River and the chute south of Rockport Island. We did notice that the fish were bigger out in the lake. But there were fewer people fishing these areas. Some mornings I'd have 4 or 5 boats in the cove behind my house for most of the day. Even those people will catch a few fish by accident every now and then. I've been fishing Sardis Lake every year for the last 19 years. There's always been big fish there. This year there are just more of them because of the past two years of low harvests.

Have fun.
_________________________
I'm not a gynecologist but I'll take a look

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#1267816 - 03/30/09 08:29 AM Re: 12 in crappie minimum [Re: ]
B.D.
8 Point


Registered: 03/24/08
Posts: 1484
Loc: Hendersonville TN

Offline
Geez, DL, you've replied about five times to the same post. Thanks for making this difficult.

 Originally Posted By: deerlawyer
so what would be the negative to a 12 in min? overpopulation?




The negative, as I've said about a dozen times, would be that a large number of crappie would die of natural causes without attaining the minimum size limit. You'd essentially be making the crappie on a lot of TN lakes about an 80% catch and release fishery. Most people aren't interested in "Trophy Crappie Management," so that doesn't make any sense.

 Quote:
there is no proof it wouldn't work, just a theory.


Actually, last time you brought this subject up, I posted a link to fisheries data that DID show it wouldn't work. You're just ignoring it because it doesn't tell you what you want to hear - that's not the same as "no proof."

Anyway, you're the one wanting to change the status quo and introduce a very restrictive size limit. You have the burden of proof: until you come up with some evidence to refute the fisheries data - other than your own halfassed "belief" that it would work - why should anyone take you seriously?

 Originally Posted By: deerlawyer
common sense trumps science just about 100% of the time.


See, this is where your post gets just plain goofy. This doesn't have anything to do with "common sense," this has to do with you ignoring a giant heap of scientific evidence because it doesn't tell you what you want to hear.

That kind of "common sense" gets us things like the OJ Simpson verdict. \:\)

The biologists at TWRA spend HUGE amounts of time and effort, year after year, doing creel surveys, shocking studies, and other sampling methods, all to find out the ideal balance between growth rate, harvest, fishing pressure, etc. I think if you had any clue how much thought and effort goes into fisheries management, you wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it.

 Quote:
don't believe everything you read in a book or that twra tells you.


Yeah, well don't believe everything some Bubba on the Internet with no clue about fisheries management tells you, either.

bd


Edited by Brian Dunigan (03/30/09 08:33 AM)

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#1268236 - 03/30/09 01:23 PM Re: 12 in crappie minimum [Re: B.D.]
Anonymous TnDeer Old Timer
Unregistered





"The negative, as I've said about a dozen times, would be that a large number of crappie would die of natural causes without attaining the minimum size limit. You'd essentially be making the crappie on a lot of TN lakes about an 80% catch and release fishery."

brian, seriously, could you explain why they would die? do they overpopulate and stunt or what? are predators eating them? would that apply to ky lake and reelfoot which is where my focus is? let's forget the rest of them for this discussion.



"Actually, last time you brought this subject up, I posted a link to fisheries data that DID show it wouldn't work. You're just ignoring it because it doesn't tell you what you want to hear - that's not the same as "no proof.""

i will go back and read it again.

"Anyway, you're the one wanting to change the status quo and introduce a very restrictive size limit. You have the burden of proof: until you come up with some evidence to refute the fisheries data - other than your own halfassed "belief" that it would work - why should anyone take you seriously?"

no, twra changed the status quo with creel limits and size restrictions. they already did it. i just want to adjust it some more. actually my change from ten to twelve may be a less drastic move than no limits to what they have now?


"See, this is where your post gets just plain goofy. This doesn't have anything to do with "common sense," this has to do with you ignoring a giant heap of scientific evidence because it doesn't tell you what you want to hear."

i just believe you can sample and shock and study all you want but until you try you can't know if something will work. doesn't hurt to get all the info you can.


"The biologists at TWRA spend HUGE amounts of time and effort, year after year, doing creel surveys, shocking studies, and other sampling methods, all to find out the ideal balance between growth rate, harvest, fishing pressure, etc."

again, doesn't mean their info isn't foolproof and flawed in some way. something you don't mention is their goals. is twra's goal to maximize fish production, fishing day opportunities, license revenue, or average creel weight? how you apply the info to which goal may make a difference in what is recommended. just because 10 in minimum will work doesn't mean a 12 won't.

you can throw out the gotta have proof thing all you want. i ain't gonna have it. what i am asking from you or someone else who makes their living in the business is a documented case where a 12" minumum was applied to a lake of equal size and fertility, fishing pressure, etc., that failed, and why it failed. you know where all the info is. let me see it.

my biggest concern is that something be done head off another cut in the creel limit.

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#1268247 - 03/30/09 01:29 PM Re: 12 in crappie minimum [Re: BuckWild]
Anonymous TnDeer Old Timer
Unregistered



 Originally Posted By: BuckWild
 Originally Posted By: deerlawyer
 Originally Posted By: BuckWild
I was catching 1.5 to 1.75 lb crappie pretty regular on the TN River back in the 80's when there were no size limits. Then I move to Memphis and start fishing Sardis and Enid and Arkabutla and am still catching 1.5 to 1.75 lb crappie on a regular basis. I caught 2 limits on Sardis last week. Fish are the same size they were before the 12 inch min went into effect. Just had 40 fish instead of 60 fish because they lowered the limit.
I fish Mississippi because it's close, not because it's got a 12 in min.


So what's your point? \:D \:D


my point is, i caught good fish as you in the eighties, but not so often now. do you still catch em in tn as you did in the eighties? not nearly as much pressure then. i disagree that the fish on sardis are no bigger. half of our forty fish limit last week weighed a solid two pounds on an electronic scale.


How long have you been fishing Sardis? The reason I ask is because year before last the lake never came up to summer pool. The entire back 1/3 of the lake bed grew up in weeds six to eight feet tall. Last year, the lake came up fast and all the weeds got covered up with water. The lake was literally unfishable during the spawn except for maybe Teckville back to the dam. I've been waiting for this fishing season for a while. Everybody that fishes down there knows this will be a banner season because of the last two off years. It has nothing to do with a 12 inch minimum size limit. I've got a house at Sardis and my phone won't stop ringing. I've got two friends from Illinois that are coming down this week to fish.Everybody that fishes it has been waiting for this year to catch the big fish. The lake has been covered up every time I've gone even though the water is still pretty low.
Do you really think the 12 inch limit has made such a difference in only one year on Sardis? If so, you are a fool. My personal best string of Crappie out of there weighed a little over 87 lbs. 30 fish caught on a single hand pole in less than 2 hours back up in Lower Graham area.
About The TN River fish. I also have a house on Birdsong Creek. Last year with Sardis being messed up, my "group" of family and friends fished out of there last year. We caught limits daily and had a lot of good fish. Were they as big as Sardis fish? No, but that is a moot point. You can't compare apples and oranges.If you think Sardis fish are big, drive on down to Grenada or Enid. \:D But I caught 12 to 15 inch fish consistently in Birdsong Creek and bigger fish out in the Lake. We fished up at Springville and Mansford Island and south down to the mouth of the Duck River and the chute south of Rockport Island. We did notice that the fish were bigger out in the lake. But there were fewer people fishing these areas. Some mornings I'd have 4 or 5 boats in the cove behind my house for most of the day. Even those people will catch a few fish by accident every now and then. I've been fishing Sardis Lake every year for the last 19 years. There's always been big fish there. This year there are just more of them because of the past two years of low harvests.

Have fun.


great info BW. so direct and to the point- do you think an 11 or 12 inch mimimum on the tn river would improve the size and numbers of big fish caught?

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#1268264 - 03/30/09 01:41 PM Re: 12 in crappie minimum [Re: 4onaside]
Anonymous TnDeer Old Timer
Unregistered



 Originally Posted By: 4onaside
 Originally Posted By: Trapper John
 Originally Posted By: deerlawyer
 Originally Posted By: Trapper John
 Originally Posted By: deerlawyer

a man should apply some pride to his fishing just like his job, and throw those little tater chips back. leave the ten inchers for the bank fishermen sitting on buckets, or make em illegal.


This is part of the reason your proposal has turned into a joke. How can we possibly take you seriously when you demean other fishermen who don't measure up to your "standards?" Talking down to the "bank fishermen" and the "tater chip" comment...it makes you a bad joke. Combine that with no scientific backup and the posts above will be the result on here and at a TWRC meeting.


typical liberal response trap. don't expect excellence from anyone, just make everyone happy. very quickly becoming the american way. you and the other liberals on this website are the bad joke.


Unfortunately for you this really isn't a political argument. Getting this type of deal to be taken seriously requires scientific backing and support from the masses. Right now you have neither.

Since the troll smell has become prevalent in this thread I'll leave it at that.
Trapper, of course this guy is a troll. He makes some statement about yours being a typical liberal response, but he is obviously even confused about the definitions of what is a liberal and a conservative. His idea of a liberal apparently is anyone who dares to question that he knows best for us all. But in effect, you and those of us who think the present deal is OK are conservatives, status quo, and he is a liberal wanting change, change, change. Hey that sounds familiar. Funny how a guy like that can come in and stir up a bunch of crap, not by his ideas, but by basically telling everyone up front that we don't know what we are talking about. His statement about the TWRA just pacifying the masses is mind blowing. If they are just pacifying the masses, they are doing a great job. THAT'S THEIR JOB IN FISHERIES MANAGEMENT TO SATISFY THE MASSES. This lawyer? wants them to pacify the few, namely him and a tiny handful of malcontents. To .... with the majority.


hey 4, if the "present deal" of high personal income taxes and government agencies buying all the land they can get their hands on with taxpayer money is your idea of conservative, then you are not only ignorant, you are a full blown socialist.

so, you run your mouth about how trollish my opinion is. how is the "present deal" of a ten inch min and a thirty fish limit not trollish as well? is it a different size troll? or was that troll your idea so it is not a troll? what is it? put that super logic to work and let's hear it.

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#1268355 - 03/30/09 03:09 PM Re: 12 in crappie minimum [Re: ]
4onaside
12 Point


Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 5115
Loc: Jackson,Tn

Offline
 Originally Posted By: deerlawyer
 Originally Posted By: 4onaside
 Originally Posted By: Trapper John
 Originally Posted By: deerlawyer
 Originally Posted By: Trapper John
 Originally Posted By: deerlawyer

a man should apply some pride to his fishing just like his job, and throw those little tater chips back. leave the ten inchers for the bank fishermen sitting on buckets, or make em illegal.


This is part of the reason your proposal has turned into a joke. How can we possibly take you seriously when you demean other fishermen who don't measure up to your "standards?" Talking down to the "bank fishermen" and the "tater chip" comment...it makes you a bad joke. Combine that with no scientific backup and the posts above will be the result on here and at a TWRC meeting.


typical liberal response trap. don't expect excellence from anyone, just make everyone happy. very quickly becoming the american way. you and the other liberals on this website are the bad joke.


Unfortunately for you this really isn't a political argument. Getting this type of deal to be taken seriously requires scientific backing and support from the masses. Right now you have neither.

Since the troll smell has become prevalent in this thread I'll leave it at that.
Trapper, of course this guy is a troll. He makes some statement about yours being a typical liberal response, but he is obviously even confused about the definitions of what is a liberal and a conservative. His idea of a liberal apparently is anyone who dares to question that he knows best for us all. But in effect, you and those of us who think the present deal is OK are conservatives, status quo, and he is a liberal wanting change, change, change. Hey that sounds familiar. Funny how a guy like that can come in and stir up a bunch of crap, not by his ideas, but by basically telling everyone up front that we don't know what we are talking about. His statement about the TWRA just pacifying the masses is mind blowing. If they are just pacifying the masses, they are doing a great job. THAT'S THEIR JOB IN FISHERIES MANAGEMENT TO SATISFY THE MASSES. This lawyer? wants them to pacify the few, namely him and a tiny handful of malcontents. To .... with the majority.


hey 4, if the "present deal" of high personal income taxes and government agencies buying all the land they can get their hands on with taxpayer money is your idea of conservative, then you are not only ignorant, you are a full blown socialist.

so, you run your mouth about how trollish my opinion is. how is the "present deal" of a ten inch min and a thirty fish limit not trollish as well? is it a different size troll? or was that troll your idea so it is not a troll? what is it? put that super logic to work and let's hear it.
You're chasin your tail now. lol Buckwild just ate you alive. I'm sure when you put out all of your BS, about the 12"limit miraculous results at Sardis, it never occured to you that someone would be on here that had much more experience at that lake and obviously knows a great deal more about the facts than you. Surprise, surprise. Take all of your liberal/conservative/whatever crap up to the political forum. You're the one that tried to inject that term into a fishing forum. Calling Trapper a liberal when you haven't the foggiest about his politics, nor should it be a factor in a fishing conversation. I suppose that its just a term that you thought offensive that you could call someone, when someone doesn't lockstep into your cockamanie ideas. Just curious. Are you in fact a lawyer? lol "TWRA just pacifying the masses". I would think that they would be pleased that would be said about their efforts, even by someone so misinformed to think that is an insult.
_________________________

Not my circus, not my monkeys.
Polish proverb

Top
#1268474 - 03/30/09 04:32 PM Re: 12 in crappie minimum [Re: 4onaside]
Anonymous TnDeer Old Timer
Unregistered



 Originally Posted By: 4onaside
 Originally Posted By: deerlawyer
 Originally Posted By: 4onaside
 Originally Posted By: Trapper John
 Originally Posted By: deerlawyer
 Originally Posted By: Trapper John
 Originally Posted By: deerlawyer

a man should apply some pride to his fishing just like his job, and throw those little tater chips back. leave the ten inchers for the bank fishermen sitting on buckets, or make em illegal.


This is part of the reason your proposal has turned into a joke. How can we possibly take you seriously when you demean other fishermen who don't measure up to your "standards?" Talking down to the "bank fishermen" and the "tater chip" comment...it makes you a bad joke. Combine that with no scientific backup and the posts above will be the result on here and at a TWRC meeting.


typical liberal response trap. don't expect excellence from anyone, just make everyone happy. very quickly becoming the american way. you and the other liberals on this website are the bad joke.


Unfortunately for you this really isn't a political argument. Getting this type of deal to be taken seriously requires scientific backing and support from the masses. Right now you have neither.

Since the troll smell has become prevalent in this thread I'll leave it at that.
Trapper, of course this guy is a troll. He makes some statement about yours being a typical liberal response, but he is obviously even confused about the definitions of what is a liberal and a conservative. His idea of a liberal apparently is anyone who dares to question that he knows best for us all. But in effect, you and those of us who think the present deal is OK are conservatives, status quo, and he is a liberal wanting change, change, change. Hey that sounds familiar. Funny how a guy like that can come in and stir up a bunch of crap, not by his ideas, but by basically telling everyone up front that we don't know what we are talking about. His statement about the TWRA just pacifying the masses is mind blowing. If they are just pacifying the masses, they are doing a great job. THAT'S THEIR JOB IN FISHERIES MANAGEMENT TO SATISFY THE MASSES. This lawyer? wants them to pacify the few, namely him and a tiny handful of malcontents. To .... with the majority.


hey 4, if the "present deal" of high personal income taxes and government agencies buying all the land they can get their hands on with taxpayer money is your idea of conservative, then you are not only ignorant, you are a full blown socialist.

so, you run your mouth about how trollish my opinion is. how is the "present deal" of a ten inch min and a thirty fish limit not trollish as well? is it a different size troll? or was that troll your idea so it is not a troll? what is it? put that super logic to work and let's hear it.
You're chasin your tail now. lol Buckwild just ate you alive. I'm sure when you put out all of your BS, about the 12"limit miraculous results at Sardis, it never occured to you that someone would be on here that had much more experience at that lake and obviously knows a great deal more about the facts than you. Surprise, surprise. Take all of your liberal/conservative/whatever crap up to the political forum. You're the one that tried to inject that term into a fishing forum. Calling Trapper a liberal when you haven't the foggiest about his politics, nor should it be a factor in a fishing conversation. I suppose that its just a term that you thought offensive that you could call someone, when someone doesn't lockstep into your cockamanie ideas. Just curious. Are you in fact a lawyer? lol "TWRA just pacifying the masses". I would think that they would be pleased that would be said about their efforts, even by someone so misinformed to think that is an insult.



i enjoyed buck's post, however, he doesn't know the 12 min is/will not help sardis either. my point in this whole discussion. tenn will never know til they try it, i don't care how many samples they take.

i used liberal to describe someone's getting all bent out of shape about politically incorrectly describing someone content with a six in crappie, or how i p.i.c. refer to the little fish. when in reality that person just didn't like me questioning any twra rule already in place. both makes someone a flaming liberal in my opinion. just dicuss the issue. don't cry cause i called a fish a tater chip!!!

4, i knew you would dodge the 10 inch/30 fish rule already being in place argument. for anyone to logically argue against my 12 in rule, you would also have to argue against the 10/30 rule. isn't it too restrictive for the tater chip fishermen? oh yea, there is science backing the 10/30, but not the 12. please. so far all you have done is talked about trolls, which you boys with the multi-thousand posts seem to relish so much. it is really silly.

Top
#1268542 - 03/30/09 05:21 PM Re: 12 in crappie minimum [Re: ]
4onaside
12 Point


Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 5115
Loc: Jackson,Tn

Offline
 Originally Posted By: deerlawyer
 Originally Posted By: 4onaside
 Originally Posted By: deerlawyer
 Originally Posted By: 4onaside
 Originally Posted By: Trapper John
 Originally Posted By: deerlawyer
 Originally Posted By: Trapper John
 Originally Posted By: deerlawyer

a man should apply some pride to his fishing just like his job, and throw those little tater chips back. leave the ten inchers for the bank fishermen sitting on buckets, or make em illegal.


This is part of the reason your proposal has turned into a joke. How can we possibly take you seriously when you demean other fishermen who don't measure up to your "standards?" Talking down to the "bank fishermen" and the "tater chip" comment...it makes you a bad joke. Combine that with no scientific backup and the posts above will be the result on here and at a TWRC meeting.


typical liberal response trap. don't expect excellence from anyone, just make everyone happy. very quickly becoming the american way. you and the other liberals on this website are the bad joke.


Unfortunately for you this really isn't a political argument. Getting this type of deal to be taken seriously requires scientific backing and support from the masses. Right now you have neither.

Since the troll smell has become prevalent in this thread I'll leave it at that.
Trapper, of course this guy is a troll. He makes some statement about yours being a typical liberal response, but he is obviously even confused about the definitions of what is a liberal and a conservative. His idea of a liberal apparently is anyone who dares to question that he knows best for us all. But in effect, you and those of us who think the present deal is OK are conservatives, status quo, and he is a liberal wanting change, change, change. Hey that sounds familiar. Funny how a guy like that can come in and stir up a bunch of crap, not by his ideas, but by basically telling everyone up front that we don't know what we are talking about. His statement about the TWRA just pacifying the masses is mind blowing. If they are just pacifying the masses, they are doing a great job. THAT'S THEIR JOB IN FISHERIES MANAGEMENT TO SATISFY THE MASSES. This lawyer? wants them to pacify the few, namely him and a tiny handful of malcontents. To .... with the majority.


hey 4, if the "present deal" of high personal income taxes and government agencies buying all the land they can get their hands on with taxpayer money is your idea of conservative, then you are not only ignorant, you are a full blown socialist.

so, you run your mouth about how trollish my opinion is. how is the "present deal" of a ten inch min and a thirty fish limit not trollish as well? is it a different size troll? or was that troll your idea so it is not a troll? what is it? put that super logic to work and let's hear it.
You're chasin your tail now. lol Buckwild just ate you alive. I'm sure when you put out all of your BS, about the 12"limit miraculous results at Sardis, it never occured to you that someone would be on here that had much more experience at that lake and obviously knows a great deal more about the facts than you. Surprise, surprise. Take all of your liberal/conservative/whatever crap up to the political forum. You're the one that tried to inject that term into a fishing forum. Calling Trapper a liberal when you haven't the foggiest about his politics, nor should it be a factor in a fishing conversation. I suppose that its just a term that you thought offensive that you could call someone, when someone doesn't lockstep into your cockamanie ideas. Just curious. Are you in fact a lawyer? lol "TWRA just pacifying the masses". I would think that they would be pleased that would be said about their efforts, even by someone so misinformed to think that is an insult.



i enjoyed buck's post, however, he doesn't know the 12 min is/will not help sardis either. my point in this whole discussion. tenn will never know til they try it, i don't care how many samples they take.

i used liberal to describe someone's getting all bent out of shape about politically incorrectly describing someone content with a six in crappie, or how i p.i.c. refer to the little fish. when in reality that person just didn't like me questioning any twra rule already in place. both makes someone a flaming liberal in my opinion. just dicuss the issue. don't cry cause i called a fish a tater chip!!!

4, i knew you would dodge the 10 inch/30 fish rule already being in place argument. for anyone to logically argue against my 12 in rule, you would also have to argue against the 10/30 rule. isn't it too restrictive for the tater chip fishermen? oh yea, there is science backing the 10/30, but not the 12. please. so far all you have done is talked about trolls, which you boys with the multi-thousand posts seem to relish so much. it is really silly.
Very eloquent. Once again, are you a lawyer? No dodging anything here, 30/10 or whatever. If I had my druthers, there are certain waters in which I think that the 10" rule is counterproductive. These are some generally relatively small lakes, i.e. Browns Creek Lake in Natchez Trace where I have probably caught a thousand black crappie, most of which have run from 8 to 9 and half inches. The size does not change from year to year, or age class to age class. Now, in practice, since there is zilch enforcement, there are many sub 10 inchers removed. Just not by me. It speaks for itself that the same management principles applicable to say Pickwick or any large reservoir should not apply to a 167 acre lake. Or a 90 acre lake such as Maple Creek Lake in the same park, or many similar lakes. But the TWRA makes no differenciation, so I can live with it. Ironically, I very rarely keep any fish anyway, but I would like to be able to legally do so, if I so choose. So if I do not keep fish, why would I be opposed to a 12" limit. I'm not. Nor 10" nor 8". So its not the message, its the messenger. You come on here and immediately start demeaning people, as if no one but you has a clue. The only excuse for talking to people the way that you do, is if in fact you are a lawyer. Then I understand.
_________________________

Not my circus, not my monkeys.
Polish proverb

Top
#1268720 - 03/30/09 07:53 PM Re: 12 in crappie minimum [Re: ]
mallard239
4 Point


Registered: 01/25/09
Posts: 199
Loc: Tn

Offline
so guys, i am fairly new here. what is a troll?
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#1269041 - 03/30/09 09:44 PM Re: 12 in crappie minimum [Re: mallard239]
4onaside
12 Point


Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 5115
Loc: Jackson,Tn

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 Originally Posted By: mallard239
so guys, i am fairly new here. what is a troll?
Basically, a poster whose sole intent is to stir up a bunch of garbage.
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#1269340 - 03/31/09 07:03 AM Re: 12 in crappie minimum [Re: ]
BuckWild
TnDeer Old Timer
12 Point


Registered: 09/27/99
Posts: 5659
Loc: Memphis or Birdsong Creek

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My thoughts on a 12 in minimum in the TN River.
Don't think it would help increase the overall size of the fish.
In my opinion, what has hurt the TN River fishery is the TN River itself. Way back when...when there was no size limit and no creel limit. We used to catch crappie by the hundreds, just about every time we fished there. We fished the areas from Hog Creek to the south all the way up to Springville on Big Sandy. Caught nice fish, big fish and lots of them. The main reason we stopped fishing on the TN River was because after the TomBigbee Waterway was opened, we noticed much greater fluctuations in the water levels on the river. I can remember rolling into Hog Creek, where we had a cabin, on a Friday afternoon and the water would be way back in the buck brush. Just perfect for spawning crappie. Next morning wake up and head for the ramp only to find they had dropped the water 6 feet. Now there had always been fluctuations in the water levels due to generating at the dam, but nothing like this. This was every fricking week. Crappie spawning in the shallow water just to have their eggs dry up and die once the water dropped. After 4 or 5 years of this cycle, we noticed a huge reduction in both size and amount of fish caught. All this started with the TNTom waterway being opened. Water had to be kept in that ditch to keep commercial barge traffic flowing. We gave up on the river and started fishing mainly MS River oxbows, like Open lake and Chisolm Lake and Cold Creek. We caught some of the biggest crappie we've ever caught out of Open Lake. I moved to Memphis and discovered all the MS Corp lakes.

There are still decent crappie in the TN River, cause we caught a bunch last year. Most of the ones we caught last year were in 2 foot of water or less. Then the river started falling after being up for about two weeks. If that river would be stable for 3 to 4 weeks during March and April every year, you'd see more numbers of fish surviving the spring hatch and that would equate to bigger fish all around.

JMHO...35 years of Crappie fishing and I'll be going tomorrow. \:D
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#1269406 - 03/31/09 07:52 AM Re: 12 in crappie minimum [Re: ]
AlabamaSwamper
12 Point


Registered: 06/03/04
Posts: 5104
Loc: Southern Wayne CO and NW Alaba...

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Look,

Tennessee has already done enough stupid things with the bass regs. Still waiting on an explanation with "scientific" reasoning why Pickwick has a 15" and 18" rule.

Anyone with any sense knows that the grass is why the fishing is so good now. Of course, I guess all those big fish caught in Alabama and MS waters probably swam from Tennessee.

If you get a 12" crappie reg, you can bet it won't have anything to do with a "biological" reason. Get enough of the "money" to want it and you got it.
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#1269506 - 03/31/09 09:03 AM Re: 12 in crappie minimum [Re: ]
AlabamaSwamper
12 Point


Registered: 06/03/04
Posts: 5104
Loc: Southern Wayne CO and NW Alaba...

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Why would the premier trophy smallmouth lake in the world need fixing?

I'm also sure all these mule largemouths caught in Alabama and Mississippi are swimming from Tennessee.

G-R-A-S-S is the only reason and everyone but the TWRA knows that.


Edited by AlabamaSwamper (03/31/09 09:11 AM)
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#1269524 - 03/31/09 09:14 AM Re: 12 in crappie minimum [Re: ]
AlabamaSwamper
12 Point


Registered: 06/03/04
Posts: 5104
Loc: Southern Wayne CO and NW Alaba...

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 Originally Posted By: captain hook
Swamper, the bass regs were necessary in this part of the world, as there is so many freaking tourneys that without them the bass fishery would be in serious trouble.


Wilson Lake is the most pressured lake on the TN river per acre. More tournaments and more recreational fishermen per acre.

4 or 5 years ago, they had to take the 15" limit off because it was killing the fishery. They couldn't shock big fish up. Hundreds of 13" and 14" fish but hardly any keepers. All this on the most pressured lake on the TN river system.

I read the other day they had one of the best if not the best weight averages in history on Wilson during their shocking survey done by TVA.

So no, length limits or "catch and release" aren't always the best thing.
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#1269639 - 03/31/09 10:27 AM Re: 12 in crappie minimum [Re: AlabamaSwamper]
AlabamaSwamper
12 Point


Registered: 06/03/04
Posts: 5104
Loc: Southern Wayne CO and NW Alaba...

Offline
The 12" limit is only on 2 lakes I think in MS, maybe 3 or 4 at the most. Biologically, those crappie populations in the flood control reservoirs (Sardis, Grenada, etc.) have really fast growth rates, really high harvest rates, and very inconsistent recruitment (fish entering the population). Those three things there are a recipe for a length limit.

Edited by AlabamaSwamper (03/31/09 10:28 AM)
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#1269844 - 03/31/09 12:40 PM Re: 12 in crappie minimum [Re: ]
AlabamaSwamper
12 Point


Registered: 06/03/04
Posts: 5104
Loc: Southern Wayne CO and NW Alaba...

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From what I'm told by those in the profession, including one fishery biologist that is in TN, in the majority of TN lakes, it would take 6-8 years for a crappie to reach 12".

You want to end crappie fishing in TN, put a 12" limit on them. It would be a waiste of time to even pull your boat out there.

The only lakes in TN that might be able to handle it is KY lake, Reelfoot and a handful of oxbow lakes.


Edited by AlabamaSwamper (03/31/09 12:41 PM)
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#1269850 - 03/31/09 12:43 PM Re: 12 in crappie minimum [Re: ]
AlabamaSwamper
12 Point


Registered: 06/03/04
Posts: 5104
Loc: Southern Wayne CO and NW Alaba...

Offline
 Originally Posted By: captain hook
The bass fishing on Norris has improved since the slots went into place, but it could also be from the dwindling striper population as well.


Slot limits and simple length limits are two totally different things. Almost like buck limits and AR's.

Slot limits are usually pretty good.


Edited by AlabamaSwamper (03/31/09 12:43 PM)
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#1270591 - 03/31/09 08:04 PM Re: 12 in crappie minimum [Re: BuckWild]
mallard239
4 Point


Registered: 01/25/09
Posts: 199
Loc: Tn

Offline
 Originally Posted By: BuckWild
My thoughts on a 12 in minimum in the TN River.
Don't think it would help increase the overall size of the fish.
In my opinion, what has hurt the TN River fishery is the TN River itself. Way back when...when there was no size limit and no creel limit. We used to catch crappie by the hundreds, just about every time we fished there. We fished the areas from Hog Creek to the south all the way up to Springville on Big Sandy. Caught nice fish, big fish and lots of them. The main reason we stopped fishing on the TN River was because after the TomBigbee Waterway was opened, we noticed much greater fluctuations in the water levels on the river. I can remember rolling into Hog Creek, where we had a cabin, on a Friday afternoon and the water would be way back in the buck brush. Just perfect for spawning crappie. Next morning wake up and head for the ramp only to find they had dropped the water 6 feet. Now there had always been fluctuations in the water levels due to generating at the dam, but nothing like this. This was every fricking week. Crappie spawning in the shallow water just to have their eggs dry up and die once the water dropped. After 4 or 5 years of this cycle, we noticed a huge reduction in both size and amount of fish caught. All this started with the TNTom waterway being opened. Water had to be kept in that ditch to keep commercial barge traffic flowing. We gave up on the river and started fishing mainly MS River oxbows, like Open lake and Chisolm Lake and Cold Creek. We caught some of the biggest crappie we've ever caught out of Open Lake. I moved to Memphis and discovered all the MS Corp lakes.

There are still decent crappie in the TN River, cause we caught a bunch last year. Most of the ones we caught last year were in 2 foot of water or less. Then the river started falling after being up for about two weeks. If that river would be stable for 3 to 4 weeks during March and April every year, you'd see more numbers of fish surviving the spring hatch and that would equate to bigger fish all around.

JMHO...35 years of Crappie fishing and I'll be going tomorrow. \:D


couldn't agree more BW. are you aware that the crappie fishing in the oxbows you mentioned is basically over, due to the silver carp? bad deal.

.

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#1271754 - 04/01/09 02:48 PM Re: 12 in crappie minimum [Re: ]
B.D.
8 Point


Registered: 03/24/08
Posts: 1484
Loc: Hendersonville TN

Offline
 Originally Posted By: deerlawyer

brian, seriously, could you explain why they would die?


Because, like every other living thing on the planet, crappie eventually die of natural causes. Call it "old age" or whatever. Crappie, especially white crappie, just don't live that long. Now, on rare occasions some individuals might live as long as 8 to 10 years, but that's not typical. Most crappie don't live past age 4 or 5. On average they reach sexual maturity around age 2 or 3.

bd

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#1272160 - 04/01/09 08:25 PM Re: 12 in crappie minimum [Re: keith35611]
Mike Belt
TnDeer Old Timer
16 Point


Registered: 03/26/99
Posts: 17788
Loc: Lakeland, Tn.

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...besides that, Tn doesn't have the same type of water as some other states capable of growing 12+ inch crappie, lol.
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#1277743 - 04/06/09 06:00 AM Re: 12 in crappie minimum [Re: Mike Belt]
Anonymous TnDeer Old Timer
Unregistered



 Originally Posted By: Mike Belt
...besides that, Tn doesn't have the same type of water as some other states capable of growing 12+ inch crappie, lol.


ha!! 2 1/2 pound crappie all over reelfoot and tn river, but we can't grow em. somebody must be slippin em in those lakes from mississippi!!

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#1277764 - 04/06/09 06:30 AM Re: 12 in crappie minimum [Re: B.D.]
Anonymous TnDeer Old Timer
Unregistered



 Originally Posted By: Brian Dunigan
 Originally Posted By: deerlawyer

brian, seriously, could you explain why they would die?


Because, like every other living thing on the planet, crappie eventually die of natural causes. Call it "old age" or whatever. Crappie, especially white crappie, just don't live that long. Now, on rare occasions some individuals might live as long as 8 to 10 years, but that's not typical. Most crappie don't live past age 4 or 5. On average they reach sexual maturity around age 2 or 3.

bd


all of this may be true, however, i am not sure it has a whole lot of bearing on whether a length min will work or not.

first, i would guess "avg. life span" of any fish would be much shorter than "possible life span" because most of em got eaten their fist month of life?? how do you define that 4 or 5 avg age? does that factor in natural predation, which really shouldn't be included in this discussion??

bottom line, if a lake can grow big craps, and they don't overpopulate due to the length limit, then it will work. if the limit causes overpopulation, it won't work. i am sure that it is tied to fertility??

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#1280041 - 04/07/09 10:57 AM Re: 12 in crappie minimum [Re: ]
B.D.
8 Point


Registered: 03/24/08
Posts: 1484
Loc: Hendersonville TN

Offline
So I've presented two concepts:

1. Crappie in most TN lakes take 5 years or more to grow beyond 12".

2. Most crappie don't live more than 4 to 5 years.

And you say "I am not sure it has a whole lot of bearing on whether a length min will work or not"???

Are you kidding? You don't see how those things fit together?

bd

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#1281150 - 04/07/09 09:14 PM Re: 12 in crappie minimum [Re: B.D.]
Anonymous TnDeer Old Timer
Unregistered



 Originally Posted By: Brian Dunigan
1. Crappie in most TN lakes take 5 years or more to grow beyond 12".


i will take your word for that, but still irrelevant if the lake is capable of consistently producing large fish, like ky lake and reelfoot.

 Originally Posted By: Brian Dunigan
2. Most crappie don't live more than 4 to 5 years.


"most crappie" includes the gillions that get eaten before they reach ten inches, correct? this is probably a good thing or there would be serious overpopulation.

the relevant question is, ....OF THE CRAPPIE THAT DO LIVE TO TEN INCHES...... how many can make it til twelve inches if not removed by fishermen, in ky lake and reelfoot? i contend that a significant number of them could. of course some of them would still die of predation, etc. now, if you tell me that 90% of the ten inchers will die of old age before reaching twelve inches, then you support you point but will have to show me the proof.
.

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#1281245 - 04/07/09 09:51 PM Re: 12 in crappie minimum [Re: ]
OldHunter
6 Point


Registered: 07/01/07
Posts: 841
Loc: west tennessee

Offline
 Originally Posted By: deerlawyer
to all real crappie fishermen-

call your wildlife commisioners and tell them you are sick of having to go to mississippi to consistently catch decent size fish, and that you would like to see a 12 in minimum for crappie, and to leave the creel limit at thirty. also tell them you don't buy that crap that our fish won't grow fast enough, and that you are sick of whiners who say it won't work and they can't catch em that big. also tell em you hate seeing the millions of dollars of revenue pour into mississippi due to lower expectations of twra fishery management.

if eight, nine, and ten inchers satisfy you, then you should fish on a farm pond or on the bank sitting on a bucket.


I consider myself a "real crappie fisherman" and I think if you were a "real crappie fisherman" your argument would be moot. \:\)

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#1281771 - 04/08/09 10:27 AM Re: 12 in crappie minimum [Re: OldHunter]
Anonymous TnDeer Old Timer
Unregistered



sorry, i meant to say "reel" crappie fishermen! \:\)
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#1283730 - 04/09/09 05:32 PM Re: 12 in crappie minimum [Re: B.D.]
Anonymous TnDeer Old Timer
Unregistered



 Originally Posted By: Brian Dunigan
So I've presented two concepts:

1. Crappie in most TN lakes take 5 years or more to grow beyond 12".

2. Most crappie don't live more than 4 to 5 years.

And you say "I am not sure it has a whole lot of bearing on whether a length min will work or not"???

Are you kidding? You don't see how those things fit together?

bd


come on BD, address the points i made???

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#1286157 - 04/11/09 09:05 PM Re: 12 in crappie minimum [Re: ]
Anonymous TnDeer Old Timer
Unregistered



i've been thinking about this, and i am gonna call bullsh!t on the "Crappie in most TN lakes take 5 years or more to grow beyond 12" thing. i am gonna have to see some proof on that. i have some four inch shiner minnows less than eight months old. why would the craps grow any slower in good water. you may be right, but i gotta see the facts and the research. bring it!!
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#1287379 - 04/13/09 07:50 AM Re: 12 in crappie minimum [Re: ]
AlabamaSwamper
12 Point


Registered: 06/03/04
Posts: 5104
Loc: Southern Wayne CO and NW Alaba...

Offline
Call the Region biologist and talk to him about it. Most will have all the data you need. They harvest so many fish per year, normally during shocking days and age them.
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#1287388 - 04/13/09 07:59 AM Re: 12 in crappie minimum [Re: 4onaside]
Slaughter-06
14 Point


Registered: 05/03/01
Posts: 8232
Loc: Dyersburg,Tn.

Offline
It takes 3 years for a Crappie to reach 12" and or 1 pound in Mississippi. does anybody know how long it would take in Tennessee.
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#1289009 - 04/14/09 08:58 AM Re: 12 in crappie minimum [Re: Slaughter-06]
AlabamaSwamper
12 Point


Registered: 06/03/04
Posts: 5104
Loc: Southern Wayne CO and NW Alaba...

Offline
They only reach 12" in 3 years in a few lakes in MS. Grenada and Sardis I believe are two of them. I'm not sure they reach it that fast but I'll find out for sure. Much like they probably do in a few of the oxbow lakes in TN and maybe Reelfoot but I'm not sure.

The majority of MS is much like TN and AL where it takes 5-8 years depending on the lake. That's why those are the only lakes where the 12" rule is in effect in MS.

I've been told that GUntersville Lake could support a 12" rule simply because the growth rates are faster.
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#1298535 - 04/21/09 03:40 PM Re: 12 in crappie minimum [Re: stik]
num1medic
14 Point


Registered: 07/13/05
Posts: 9016
Loc: Crossville,TN

Offline
 Originally Posted By: stik
NO NO NO **** NO!!!!
DITTO, that has go to be the dumdest thing I've ever saw put on here.
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#1298559 - 04/21/09 03:52 PM Re: 12 in crappie minimum [Re: num1medic]
Baxter83
Good ol' Boys
12 Point


Registered: 09/03/08
Posts: 7301
Loc: Winchester, TN

Offline
 Originally Posted By: num1medic
 Originally Posted By: stik
NO NO NO **** NO!!!!
DITTO


I'll give this one another DITTO!

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#1304428 - 04/26/09 09:36 AM Re: 12 in crappie minimum [Re: num1medic]
Anonymous TnDeer Old Timer
Unregistered



 Originally Posted By: num1medic
 Originally Posted By: stik
NO NO NO **** NO!!!!
DITTO, that has go to be the dumdest thing I've ever saw put on here.


except maybe your english and spelling.

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#1310668 - 05/01/09 01:05 PM Re: 12 in crappie minimum [Re: ]
num1medic
14 Point


Registered: 07/13/05
Posts: 9016
Loc: Crossville,TN

Offline
 Originally Posted By: deerlawyer
 Originally Posted By: num1medic
 Originally Posted By: stik
NO NO NO **** NO!!!!
DITTO, that has got to be the dumbest thing I've ever saw put on here.


except maybe your english and spelling.
OK, I'll give you that one, got in a hurry. I'll fix it for ya!
_________________________
Tact is for people not witty enough to be sarcastic.

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#1311042 - 05/01/09 06:59 PM Re: 12 in crappie minimum [Re: num1medic]
1SPORTSMAN
Spike


Registered: 04/21/09
Posts: 46
Loc: TN,USA

Offline
I say they want bigger crappie, well then set the size limit 18"
and see who is happy now

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#1312279 - 05/02/09 10:18 PM Re: 12 in crappie minimum [Re: 1SPORTSMAN]
B.D.
8 Point


Registered: 03/24/08
Posts: 1484
Loc: Hendersonville TN

Offline
Why stop at 18"? That's not ambitious at all. I say we put a 40 inch limit on crappie and we can all catch rockfish-sized ones! \:\)

bd

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