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#1217881 - 03/05/09 12:49 PM Re: The Definition of Irony [Re: Tubakka]
Fordman
12 Point


Registered: 08/06/00
Posts: 5871
Loc: Rockvale,tn

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 Originally Posted By: Tubakka
I just hope people are smart enough to realize that by closing harvest of the fishery entirely they are completely ignoring a demographic that will in turn no longer utilize the resource and stocking will decline significantly to that river. I don't think they realize how much of the money from those stocking efforts doesn't come from the die-hards and year-passers, but the people who come down a couple weekends a year to canoe and take a few fish and then go home. I mean, 3 consecutive day stamps equals the price of a year one if I recall maybe a bit more...

...there is a line to walk here. Harvest HAS to be included in these fisheries, period. It's the nature for their existence. And I do not think this utopian trout fishery that people seem to believe could exist if no harvest was incited...does. Newsflash, there are untapped troves of large trout in the river, as evidenced by these guys using rainbows for bait [amen brothers, fight on...if you catch this fish legally on your stamp in your daily limit, they're YOURS to do with what you want...]. I've heard way too many stories in the past few months of my friends up there having MONSTROSITIES come up to boat with the size and swagger of a rockfish or musky to take a swipe at a poor maligned rainbow or sublegal brown to believe that "all the big fish are gone". What river ARE you fishing guys? Change up tactics; I know the next time I'm back, the smallest thing to grace my line will be 3/4 of an ounce and 5" long, and that's only if things are particularly slow.

Not one group, person, or Non profit organization has ever tried to get the caney made into a no harvest zone.

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#1217886 - 03/05/09 12:52 PM Re: The Definition of Irony [Re: Tubakka]
Fordman
12 Point


Registered: 08/06/00
Posts: 5871
Loc: Rockvale,tn

Offline
 Originally Posted By: Tubakka
From an anonymous tip [Thanks Biglures...wait...], I recently found that the trophytnfishing Caney section forum became public again [huzzah...]. But a friend of mine still at tech whom I got hooked on trout fishing [he has yet to harvest a legal brown by the way...though he has caught a couple] found a recent thread that specifically mentioned me by name after I told him to look there for info on recent reports and such [even he found it amazing that he couldn't find a trout forum that specifically directed attention to conventional tackle anglers...hmmm *sniff sniff* smells like...promise...]. Frankly, I think its so ridiculously incredible that I am still the iconic figurehead of raping natural resources, and of course, if anyone keeps a legal brown ever, it's somehow my fault, especially since I've only fished the Caney from the fall of '07 to the spring of '08...but that's not really the ironic part.

...I imagine that a thread that appeared recently on this forum spawned from this concerning the lack of large browns in the Caney due to the single efforts of yours truly simply stating that it doesn't make you a member of the occult to harvest a legal fish in a put-and-take fishery and that resources like that are build to withstand, be augmented by, and EASILY take far more abuse than they're being given, and also that theoretically education is moot. It must be done by regulation, which is in truth, fact. If you're expecting everyone to give up the pleasure of taking a nice brown home to the table now and then [which if you haven't, no offense, you're missing out on one of the greatest things in freshwater, one that cannot be bought in a store or farm raised...and yes, FACT a 22" brown tastes FAR better than a 12" rainbow...] you're going to have quite a wait.

All this aside, in such a statement, there was a remark made about a guy who was one of my "neophytes" or something [probably don't even know the guy] who had put an 8 and 4 pound brown in the freezer that week. While yes, I think the regs need to be tightened but not embargoed completely....if you close harvest on the Caney, guess what...you'll close the stocking as well...the FUNNY THING IS!!!...here they were in one swoop saying how there were "no big browns left in the Caney" and yet...here is a conventional tackle angler IN A CANOE who's taken two big fish within a week...and he's not the only one [caught I mean, I don't know about harvest past that one testimonial]. Here they keep pleading and pleading and saying how the resource is just totally wasted, and gone to pot over my rantings...and to cite such claims, they are using their OWN lack of success pitted against the successful catch and harvest of legal browns [saying there are no fish over 18" in it anymore] DURING SIMULTANEOUSLY ANGLING. Am I the ONLY one that smells how ridiculous that assault is? I don't mean to start a brush fire [although...sure enough, some's going to drop their drawers, spew the methane, and here we have another deca-thread on our hands....] but seriously...can we come to an agreement that in a fishery that is put-and-take it's not completely evil to harvest, and as evidenced by this [NOT A SINGLE SHOCKING STUDY, which proves nothing, especially when stacked against the recent creel takes of my friends still in TN] fact? I really really really really get tired of getting a beating for thinking a bit more abstract than just "take fish = bad/throw back fish=good" There is something great about a fishery like this that can accomodate both ridiculous stocking and managed to be augmented by the take of a few larger sized fish through regulation and enforcement, as well. I'm sorry, but I refuse to hop on the new age bandwagon that 21st century angling is all about catch-and-release. We used to go FULL ON the OTHER WAY, and of course, THAT RUINED resources, but now we go FULL ON this way and neither of them are the answer.

...seriously, is there not some kind of compromise that can be reached without all this name calling and such? It gets old..and let's not forget, the only reason I even began to post on these things was because of how terribly myself and friends were treated for keeping legal fish, virtually spat on and threatened, and those who were doing it actually had no intelligent basis behind it except for "THAT FISH A' DEAD NYAH...". You start telling them that the large fish are competing for resources at a much higher stake and have no natural predators other than man, and through the regulation many are reaching that size of 18" where they all are competing for larger prey but not a whole lot are being taken out, and the periodic harvest of a few larger fish can enhance the quality of trophy fish in a fishery so heavily stocked...and they just scratch their heads, not to MENTION that there is NO reproduction in the Caney due to fluctuating water levels... It's like it doesn't even register...

I still say, one of the best quotes in the context of this discussion [and I'd like it to become a discussion, not lobbing dictionapalm at one another] is by a former flyfishing guide...

..."if a bunch of hungry rednecks can ruin a fishery, then the TWRA isn't doing their job..."

Amen....

Because the only way we're going to get anything done here is ot realize that the harvesters are still going to want to harvest, the catch and release guys are going to catch and release no matter what, and neither are going to change the others minds. So...a compromise must be made.

A. There is no "assault" as you put it.

B. I call BS on your feeling threated on the river over a fish. If you did name a name. If you didnt or cant name a name then stop trying to paint yourself out as a victim. You post all this bull crap just to stir the pot and re-enforce, to yourself, that your the greatest fisherman in the world. I will not respond,reply, or waste my time with your threads anymore. If you want to debate come on over to that other forum dedicated to fishing and spew your BS there.


Edited by Fordman (03/05/09 04:41 PM)

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#1218159 - 03/05/09 02:09 PM Re: The Definition of Irony [Re: Tubakka]
bob
4 Point


Registered: 04/18/08
Posts: 116
Loc: tn

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 Originally Posted By: Tubakka
the only reason I even began to post on these things was because of how terribly myself and friends were treated for keeping legal fish, virtually spat on


I just virtually dropped a big deuce on this thread. How does that make you feel?

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#1218270 - 03/05/09 03:13 PM Re: The Definition of Irony [Re: bob]
B.D.
8 Point


Registered: 03/24/08
Posts: 1484
Loc: Hendersonville TN

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#1218890 - 03/05/09 07:09 PM Re: The Definition of Irony [Re: B.D.]
gil1
12 Point


Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 6349
Loc: Nashville, TN

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OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
\:D \:D \:D \:D \:D \:D \:D \:D









_________________________
It is not the killing ...; it is the contest of skill and cunning. The true hunter counts his achievement in proportion to the effort involved and the fairness of the sport.

Dr. Saxton Pope

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#1218905 - 03/05/09 07:13 PM Re: The Definition of Irony [Re: Tubakka]
gil1
12 Point


Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 6349
Loc: Nashville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: Tubakka
From an anonymous tip [Thanks Biglures...wait...], I recently found that .........................................................................................................................................................................................and neither are going to change the others minds. So...a compromise must be made.














_________________________
It is not the killing ...; it is the contest of skill and cunning. The true hunter counts his achievement in proportion to the effort involved and the fairness of the sport.

Dr. Saxton Pope

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#1218926 - 03/05/09 07:22 PM Re: The Definition of Irony [Re: madMax]
Tubakka
6 Point


Registered: 12/19/07
Posts: 782
Loc: Tennessee

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*ball slowly bounces....each time shorter than the last...*

...Gil doesn't want to play anymore.

I just presented my thoughts on a compromise limit that accomodates both parties that fish that river in their most absolute and allows for room for both to be happy and to make the fishery a better place for all by practice of them...

...and that's the best you can say? Yeah...I've got issues...

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#1219129 - 03/05/09 08:43 PM Re: The Definition of Irony [Re: Tubakka]
gil1
12 Point


Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 6349
Loc: Nashville, TN

Offline
Yeah, it was completely adolescent, but I feel better.
_________________________
It is not the killing ...; it is the contest of skill and cunning. The true hunter counts his achievement in proportion to the effort involved and the fairness of the sport.

Dr. Saxton Pope

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#1219175 - 03/05/09 08:49 PM Re: The Definition of Irony [Re: Tubakka]
Tubakka
6 Point


Registered: 12/19/07
Posts: 782
Loc: Tennessee

Offline
Fact is gil, you have neither the catches or pics or expertise or brains to chime in on most of these conversations concerning the regulations in place, which is why...you don't. You just lob crap at the side that you don't agree with with about as much wit, poise, and accuracy as an chimpanzee at the circus that sees a shirt color he doesn't like. I opened up a cause for true debate between two "warring" factions, as sad as it has come to this, and I've seen it only escalate in my absence. And you can't even sit down like a grown adult and participate in that.

Long winded as they may be, if you'd actually read my posts [sorry bowriter, I forget you grew up in the silent film age...I'll make sure next time to go sentence-by-sentence and all that...jk man, you're alright...] you'd see that if you'd get past your OWN ego, I have valid points.

To paraphrase the last one, I was attacked by name on a forum [which then, I don't have the right to a rebuttal?...CLOSE THE PORTCULLIS, before he can defend himself and speak his mind!!!....] for the actions of another and blamed almost singularly for the "death" of a fishery, given a premature headstone by the fly guys apparently, when in the same breath they are cursing fishermen that very week pulling out big BIG browns [well, not BIG browns, but big browns]. Like I said...irony.

You have to admit, the statement that the Caney is a dead fishery and then using the opposing remarks of "not being able to catch/shock big fish due to Tubakka's Auschwitz adminstration on the Caney...meaning anything brown and with a big nose must die...." [which I NEVER said take every big fish out, just that it wasn't evil to harvest stocked sterile fish and fisheries could be designed as such to be ENHANCED by harvest of certain regulated amounts and sizes...] juxtaposed with "those stupid rednecks took out some great big browns this week" is a reciprocal equation that cancels itself out.

Basically...if the Caney WERE dead and there WERE no more big fish in it...then my friends still there wouldn't be able to send me all these pics of BIG fish they're catching, and even bigger ones they're seeing and hooking. Makes no sense whatsoever. Btw, they're releasing most of their fish, but still harvest a 20-22" now and then.

I even made a plea to end this nonsense between the harvesters and huggers. It's astounding...ASTOUNDING...I don't say ANYTHING on ANY board for a number of weeks, and I immediately get attacked for no reason, just...hey, we need a scapegoat. No offense...that's pathetic. How old are we here?...

And seriously, Troy, seriously...what do you think I'm going to learn on trophytn about the Caney? Humor me...c'mon. They don't even talk my game man...I'm not even IN TN ANYMORE! How sad is that! No offense man, but I have way better sources on that river than what that board can offer. And it's a good board, with great anglers...but everyone is close lipped there, which is fine...it's their board, it's their rules. But still...don't act like you're robbing me of anything.

"He who shall not be named"...God, I love that one....

This whole mentality of threatening and excommunicating anyone who even BREATHES the word "harvest" in fishing circles, be it brown trout, brown bass, panfish, or even MUSKY... ...needs to stop. There are varying applications of the concept to any given species on any given water. They vary greater from species to species than water to water, and there are times when yes, harvest needs to be halted to allow fisheries to grow and or rebound from catastrophe, but if harvest is what allows the catastrophe in the first place, then the regulations aren't doing their jobs. Pure and simple....

Tubakka, The Butcher of Lancaster




Edited by Tubakka (03/05/09 08:51 PM)

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#1219186 - 03/05/09 08:56 PM Re: The Definition of Irony [Re: Tubakka]
Tubakka
6 Point


Registered: 12/19/07
Posts: 782
Loc: Tennessee

Offline
Fordman,
I've never felt physically threatened on the water by anyone. And frankly...none of them have the ability to intimidate me in any way, on or off the water. I call people who post on a board false information plastering me and saying that they saw me with a "Cooler full of trout" and that "he had so many legals" when they didn't even see in my cooler...or that wonderful bit on the trophytn forum last spring where it was a celebrated "fact" that my tires had been slashed on the Collins [somewhere I still think some other poor tuba player with a musky bumper sticker had to go get some new radials...] is assault. Don't blow this up, man. I can't tell you how many times I've been given crap over harvesting a few legal fish. Or anyone in general that does. To say that it doesn't is to blatantly lie into the mirror. It needs to stop. All this crap...if it takes a full out apology on my part then I'm sorry. I'm not really a bad guy; and if your motor cut I'd haul you in Troy. None of this is personal...but I have my opinions as does everyone else.

None of this is personal, I assure you...I don't get nearly worked up over this crap as the people who respond do. So whatever...I'm still going to post and have my opinions, but I'd rather not be slandered and blamed, which are forms of verbal "assault" on boards where I don't even have the luxury of defending myself.


Btw, Troy, I've referred clients to you man. I don't know if they actually went but...hey, as I've said, I don't know how to flyfish, and some really really just want to learn that.

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