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#1211787 - 03/03/09 08:10 AM Re: Intro to fly fishing [Re: ]
B.D.
8 Point


Registered: 03/24/08
Posts: 1484
Loc: Hendersonville TN

Offline
 Originally Posted By: captain hook

This is going to come off as arrogant as anything I have ever written or said,


Hey, you're right!

Okay, so you caught a big striper on a floating line. So what? I've caught stripers on floating line too. Sometimes they feed on the surface.

You can put up all the pictures you want, and this statement is still wrong:

 Quote:
I can think of no reason to throw a sinking line of any kind other then an intermediate in this area.


Sorry, but it's just flat wrong.

Are sinking lines for beginners? No. But no reason to throw a sinking line in this area? Come on, give me a break.

Any day you want, I'll gladly invite you streamer fishing for stripers when they're suspended around 15 ft of water on Priest, or maybe chasing browns on the Caney when they're running one or two generators. I'll use a 350 grain sinking line and you use an intermediate, and we'll see whether you can think of a reason to "use a sinking line in this area" when you can't get your fly down to where the fish are. Maybe that will help you not have to worry about sounding "arrogant." \:\)

bd


Edited by Brian Dunigan (03/03/09 09:29 AM)

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#1211896 - 03/03/09 09:07 AM Re: Intro to fly fishing [Re: ]
JimFromTN
8 Point


Registered: 07/14/08
Posts: 1469
Loc: Nashville, TN

Offline
 Originally Posted By: captain hook
 Originally Posted By: JimFromTN
I'm no expert and to tell you the truth, you probably should not listen to an expert, especially one in a fly shop. Fly shops are good because they do often give casting lessons and they carry things that you can't get anywhere else like tippets, flies, and the goop you put on your dry flies to keep them afloat. I think that casting lessons would be a better investment than the $600 rod they are going to tell you that you absolutely need not to mention the $300 reel and the hundreds of dollars worth of fly line, tippets, and various other things. I have been fly fishing since I was about 9 yrs old and I am now in my early forties. I fished over 20 years with an 8 ft 5 wt fiberglas flyrod my father made me. I fished the Galitin river in Montana with it when I was 18. It worked just fine. You can go out and get a nice graphite flyrod in the $60 to $100 range that will work just fine for a beginner. You will end up spending almost as much for the reel if not more. Yes, you will eventually want to buy another rod. Thats part of getting into fishing regardless of the method you use. There is no fly rod that is great for everything just like there is no spinning rod that will suit all your needs.

For a starter rod, I would get an 8' rod in the 5 to 6 wt range. You could go shorter and lighter if you want. Get a reel with 2 spools. One for floating line and one for sinking line. Get a good variety of tippets.

If you have access to a boat, one of the best ways to learn to cast a fly is to go out to an open lake when the may flys are hatching and throw some poppers for blue gill.






Having been around those guys that work in Shops in Nashville as well as here in Knoxville I can say with 100% certainty there isn't a bigger load of BS in the world then what is above. Period.

You are making suggestions of rod lengths without considering a tenth of where he is wishing to fish, what he intends to use, or how he intends to use it.


I don't mean to bash all fly shops and I am sorry that I offended anyone. I was in Cumberland Transit last year and when the guy found out I wasn't some stick up the backside fly fishing elitist, he wanted nothing to do with me. I was actually looking around for a good may fly immitation to use on lakes. I wanted something a better than a traditional popper. My father used to make me some good ones but he pasted away a few years back so I needed to find a new source. The guy had no interest in helping me. Apparently, he was too stuck up to help someone who wanted to fish for panfish. I've fly fished for salmon in AK, trout in Montana, redfish in Florida (hopefully someday Tarpon), and yes bluegill on KY Lake. I walked around there and looked at the flyrods. Do they carry anything under $250 to $300? There is (or was. Its been a few years) a fly shop in Brentwood that did not carry anything less expensive but they were very nice people and very helpful so I would say the guy at Cumberland Transit was the exception and not the rule. My main point is that fly shops are usually more expensive and not what I would recomend for someone who is trying to break in to the world of fly fishing. Once that person has the experience and the technique down and wants to move up then by all means go and buy your equipment at a fly shop.

An 8 foot 5 wt rod is a good all around rod for TN and the guy is a beginner. 5 wt is light enough for panfish and trout and heavy enough for a descent size smallie. Some people are pushing for a 9 foot rod. Have you ever tried to fish some of the streams in the Smokies with a 9 ft rod? Your line will spend more time in the trees then in the water. An 8ft rod is good enough for long casts in open areas and maybe not the greatest in really tight areas but is a better choice than a longer rod.

A begginner should be less focused on equipment and more on technique which is why I suggested a basic all around inexpensive setup. Buy the rod, reel, and line at Bass Pro and then go to the fly shop closest to the area you are going to fish and buy flies and tippets and strike up a conversation about whats working best in the area. If you don't have someone to teach you to cast, find a fly shop that gives lessons. Some give free lessons. It will be a far better investment than any rod you buy. If you really want to get serious then join organizations like Trout Unlimited (TU) and Federation of Fly Fishermen (FFF) and go to the meetings. You will meet lots of great people who are more than willing to teach you anything you could posibly ever want to know about fly fishing. There will be stick up the backside elitist fly fishermen there but just smile and listen while they pontificate about their fly fishing adventures. It can be amusing while at the same time very informative.

Practice on ponds and lakes with poppers. It will help with your casting, give you confidence, and be fun at the same time.


Edited by JimFromTN (03/03/09 09:16 AM)

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#1211931 - 03/03/09 09:21 AM Re: Intro to fly fishing [Re: JimFromTN]
Fordman
12 Point


Registered: 08/06/00
Posts: 5871
Loc: Rockvale,tn

Offline
 Originally Posted By: JimFromTN
 Originally Posted By: captain hook
 Originally Posted By: JimFromTN
I'm no expert and to tell you the truth, you probably should not listen to an expert, especially one in a fly shop. Fly shops are good because they do often give casting lessons and they carry things that you can't get anywhere else like tippets, flies, and the goop you put on your dry flies to keep them afloat. I think that casting lessons would be a better investment than the $600 rod they are going to tell you that you absolutely need not to mention the $300 reel and the hundreds of dollars worth of fly line, tippets, and various other things. I have been fly fishing since I was about 9 yrs old and I am now in my early forties. I fished over 20 years with an 8 ft 5 wt fiberglas flyrod my father made me. I fished the Galitin river in Montana with it when I was 18. It worked just fine. You can go out and get a nice graphite flyrod in the $60 to $100 range that will work just fine for a beginner. You will end up spending almost as much for the reel if not more. Yes, you will eventually want to buy another rod. Thats part of getting into fishing regardless of the method you use. There is no fly rod that is great for everything just like there is no spinning rod that will suit all your needs.

For a starter rod, I would get an 8' rod in the 5 to 6 wt range. You could go shorter and lighter if you want. Get a reel with 2 spools. One for floating line and one for sinking line. Get a good variety of tippets.

If you have access to a boat, one of the best ways to learn to cast a fly is to go out to an open lake when the may flys are hatching and throw some poppers for blue gill.






Having been around those guys that work in Shops in Nashville as well as here in Knoxville I can say with 100% certainty there isn't a bigger load of BS in the world then what is above. Period.

You are making suggestions of rod lengths without considering a tenth of where he is wishing to fish, what he intends to use, or how he intends to use it.


I don't mean to bash all fly shops and I am sorry that I offended anyone. I was in Cumberland Transit last year and when the guy found out I wasn't some stick up the backside fly fishing elitist, he wanted nothing to do with me. I was actually looking around for a good may fly immitation to use on lakes. I wanted something a better than a traditional popper. My father used to make me some good ones but he pasted away a few years back so I needed to find a new source. The guy had no interest in helping me. Apparently, he was too stuck up to help someone who wanted to fish for panfish. I've fly fished for salmon in AK, trout in Montana, redfish in Florida (hopefully someday Tarpon), and yes bluegill on KY Lake. I walked around there and looked at the flyrods. Do they carry anything under $250 to $300? There is (or was. Its been a few years) a fly shop in Brentwood that did not carry anything less expensive but they were very nice people and very helpful so I would say the guy at Cumberland Transit was the exception and not the rule. My main point is that fly shops are usually more expensive and not what I would recomend for someone who is trying to break in to the world of fly fishing. Once that person has the experience and the technique down and wants to move up then by all means go and buy your equipment at a fly shop.

An 8 foot 5 wt rod is a good all around rod for TN and the guy is a beginner. 5 wt is light enough for panfish and trout and heavy enough for a descent size smallie. Some people are pushing for a 9 foot rod. Have you ever tried to fish some of the streams in the Smokies with a 9 ft rod? Your line will spend more time in the trees then in the water. An 8ft rod is good enough for long casts in open areas and maybe not the greatest in really tight areas but is a better choice than a longer rod.

A begginner should be less focused on equipment and more on technique which is why I suggested a basic all around inexpensive setup. Buy the rod, reel, and line at Bass Pro and then go to the fly shop closest to the area you are going to fish and buy flies and tippets and strike up a conversation about whats working best in the area. If you don't have someone to teach you to cast, find a fly shop that gives lessons. Some give free lessons. It will be a far better investment than any rod you buy. If you really want to get serious then join organizations like Trout Unlimited (TU) and Federation of Fly Fishermen (FFF) and go to the meetings. You will meet lots of great people who are more than willing to teach you anything you could posibly ever want to know about fly fishing.


Well let me tell you. There are bad apples in every barrel. I dont shop at CT but I can say that they are not like you portray them, atleast not now. Grumpy is a nice man and would bend over backwards to help anyone. Fly South is my shop of choice and yes they carry rods the run the gammut of prices. Most small shops carry what the big boxes dont and thats usually a large selection of better equipment, thats how they survive. BPS and Cabelas, for the most part, have little interest in keeping a novice in the sport. Its not that they are bad or evil, its that they dont have the literally years of knowledge that a independant shop has to have in order to survive. Are they bad for the consumer, the big boxes, well no but they are very toxic to the pro shops that are still out there.
I have always tried to steer folks to the independant shops be they archery or fly fishing. I fully understand that in these tough economic times people are price shopping everything but let us not forget that those little shops need customers to survive as well.

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#1212016 - 03/03/09 09:41 AM Re: Intro to fly fishing [Re: Fordman]
B.D.
8 Point


Registered: 03/24/08
Posts: 1484
Loc: Hendersonville TN

Offline
Also, keep in mind that a local fly shop won't stay in business if all they sell is tippet and the occasional casting lesson.

If we all bought our rods at Bass Pro and then went to the fly shops for advice, it won't be long before the local shops are dead and Bass Pro is the only place left. The guys at Bass Pro are nice enough, but they don't have much expertise and can't give you good advice about matching a line to a rod, what gear is best for what conditions, etc. Bass Pro doesn't do casting lessons. They often won't even let you take a rod out and cast it before you buy, which is critical with fly gear.

Also, don't think for a second that Bass Pro will continue to keep their prices cheap after they've killed off all their competition.

By the way, I have indeed fished the Smokies with a 9 foot rod. It actually works better than you'd expect. The reason is because 90 percent of the time up there, you have to roll cast or "dap" the fly into tight places. That's actually easier to do with a long rod. In the few places where you can actually back cast, there's not much difference between an 8ft and a 9ft rod.

bd

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#1212068 - 03/03/09 09:47 AM Re: Intro to fly fishing [Re: JimFromTN]
Radar
Non-Typical


Registered: 08/19/01
Posts: 31209
Loc: Kansas City, Mo.

Offline
 Originally Posted By: JimFromTN
 Originally Posted By: captain hook
 Originally Posted By: JimFromTN
I'm no expert and to tell you the truth, you probably should not listen to an expert, especially one in a fly shop. Fly shops are good because they do often give casting lessons and they carry things that you can't get anywhere else like tippets, flies, and the goop you put on your dry flies to keep them afloat. I think that casting lessons would be a better investment than the $600 rod they are going to tell you that you absolutely need not to mention the $300 reel and the hundreds of dollars worth of fly line, tippets, and various other things. I have been fly fishing since I was about 9 yrs old and I am now in my early forties. I fished over 20 years with an 8 ft 5 wt fiberglas flyrod my father made me. I fished the Galitin river in Montana with it when I was 18. It worked just fine. You can go out and get a nice graphite flyrod in the $60 to $100 range that will work just fine for a beginner. You will end up spending almost as much for the reel if not more. Yes, you will eventually want to buy another rod. Thats part of getting into fishing regardless of the method you use. There is no fly rod that is great for everything just like there is no spinning rod that will suit all your needs.

For a starter rod, I would get an 8' rod in the 5 to 6 wt range. You could go shorter and lighter if you want. Get a reel with 2 spools. One for floating line and one for sinking line. Get a good variety of tippets.

If you have access to a boat, one of the best ways to learn to cast a fly is to go out to an open lake when the may flys are hatching and throw some poppers for blue gill.






Having been around those guys that work in Shops in Nashville as well as here in Knoxville I can say with 100% certainty there isn't a bigger load of BS in the world then what is above. Period.

You are making suggestions of rod lengths without considering a tenth of where he is wishing to fish, what he intends to use, or how he intends to use it.


I don't mean to bash all fly shops and I am sorry that I offended anyone. I was in Cumberland Transit last year and when the guy found out I wasn't some stick up the backside fly fishing elitist, he wanted nothing to do with me. I was actually looking around for a good may fly immitation to use on lakes. I wanted something a better than a traditional popper. My father used to make me some good ones but he pasted away a few years back so I needed to find a new source. The guy had no interest in helping me. Apparently, he was too stuck up to help someone who wanted to fish for panfish. I've fly fished for salmon in AK, trout in Montana, redfish in Florida (hopefully someday Tarpon), and yes bluegill on KY Lake. I walked around there and looked at the flyrods. Do they carry anything under $250 to $300? There is (or was. Its been a few years) a fly shop in Brentwood that did not carry anything less expensive but they were very nice people and very helpful so I would say the guy at Cumberland Transit was the exception and not the rule. My main point is that fly shops are usually more expensive and not what I would recomend for someone who is trying to break in to the world of fly fishing. Once that person has the experience and the technique down and wants to move up then by all means go and buy your equipment at a fly shop.

An 8 foot 5 wt rod is a good all around rod for TN and the guy is a beginner. 5 wt is light enough for panfish and trout and heavy enough for a descent size smallie. Some people are pushing for a 9 foot rod. Have you ever tried to fish some of the streams in the Smokies with a 9 ft rod? Your line will spend more time in the trees then in the water. An 8ft rod is good enough for long casts in open areas and maybe not the greatest in really tight areas but is a better choice than a longer rod.

A begginner should be less focused on equipment and more on technique which is why I suggested a basic all around inexpensive setup. Buy the rod, reel, and line at Bass Pro and then go to the fly shop closest to the area you are going to fish and buy flies and tippets and strike up a conversation about whats working best in the area. If you don't have someone to teach you to cast, find a fly shop that gives lessons. Some give free lessons. It will be a far better investment than any rod you buy. If you really want to get serious then join organizations like Trout Unlimited (TU) and Federation of Fly Fishermen (FFF) and go to the meetings. You will meet lots of great people who are more than willing to teach you anything you could posibly ever want to know about fly fishing. There will be stick up the backside elitist fly fishermen there but just smile and listen while they pontificate about their fly fishing adventures. It can be amusing while at the same time very informative.

Practice on ponds and lakes with poppers. It will help with your casting, give you confidence, and be fun at the same time.


Jim , I think you hit the nail on the head with that post . I agree 100%
_________________________

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#1212143 - 03/03/09 10:02 AM Re: Intro to fly fishing [Re: Radar]
madMax
4 Point


Registered: 04/09/08
Posts: 130
Loc: Middle TN

Offline
Also agree with Jim's post. Thats all we are trying to say is that getting into the sport the "intro" should not consist of talk about mid to high dollar equipment and brands. It should consist of talk on technique, presentation, where are good places to learn etc. Unless newbies just have the money to throw down - then by all means go buy whatever you think is best. If you want to try out flyfishing and arent sure if its your thing - buy cheap, test the waters, then go from there. You can always buy better, but if you buy better and you dont enjoy it your stuck with it. I also agree the best way to learn basics is buy a cheap flyrod, go to the lake this spring and summer and a catch bass/bluegill on poppers. This is by far the best way to learn but just my opinion.
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#1212207 - 03/03/09 10:40 AM Re: Intro to fly fishing [Re: B.D.]
JimFromTN
8 Point


Registered: 07/14/08
Posts: 1469
Loc: Nashville, TN

Offline
 Originally Posted By: Brian Dunigan

By the way, I have indeed fished the Smokies with a 9 foot rod. It actually works better than you'd expect. The reason is because 90 percent of the time up there, you have to roll cast or "dap" the fly into tight places. That's actually easier to do with a long rod. In the few places where you can actually back cast, there's not much difference between an 8ft and a 9ft rod.


I just came across this. Its the rule that I had learned.

http://www.flyfishinggear.info/buyers_guide/fly_rods_length.shtm

I don't want to put the fly shops out of business. I think beginners should buy cheap and once they get into it, go to the fly shop and buy the $400 orvis rod.


Edited by JimFromTN (03/03/09 10:43 AM)

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#1212275 - 03/03/09 11:18 AM Re: Intro to fly fishing [Re: Fordman]
gil1
12 Point


Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 6349
Loc: Nashville, TN

Offline
Just a thought...

Have y'all been to a fly shop lately? They wouldn't last long without offering introductory equipment. In fact, I'd say that teaching and equipping the beginners is their bread and butter. I can't compare prices because I haven't looked elsewhere in a while, but our local shops all have very affordable introductory packages.

On Cumberland Transit, I'm wondering who you saw over there. The head fly guy over there is the antithesis of the elitist fly boy you described. He's just a regular no-frills guy that loves to chat and help others. I say give them another shot if you can. At least don't measure all fly shops by that one experience because I've never had a problem in any of the shops I've been to.
_________________________
It is not the killing ...; it is the contest of skill and cunning. The true hunter counts his achievement in proportion to the effort involved and the fairness of the sport.

Dr. Saxton Pope

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#1212737 - 03/03/09 01:22 PM Re: Intro to fly fishing [Re: ]
Radar
Non-Typical


Registered: 08/19/01
Posts: 31209
Loc: Kansas City, Mo.

Offline
I wish there were some fly shops in my area . I would be a customer for sure . ;\) I try to support the local shops whenever possible. I think Fordman can vouch for me on that . We had a long discussion today about this thread when he came over to the house . I learned allot from our conversation . There are allot of things that are taken the wrong way on these threads , and when you talk to someone in person , it is easier to understand the different views. ;\) Troy and I have known each other for about 8 years now , so he knows where I'm coming from. We can also debate without it becoming personal.
I also got to put my hands on some of his nice fly rods.
As far as supporting the small shops goes , when I go bass or crappie fishing , I try to seek out those small mom and pop baitshops near the lakes and rivers to buy bait and lures that I can't find anywhere else.
It is also a great place to get general info on what the fishing are hitting.
I appreciate the help I have gotten from Fordman , Gil , and Jakeaway regarding fly fishing tackle. Thats what makes these forums so great.

_________________________

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#1212786 - 03/03/09 01:41 PM Re: Intro to fly fishing [Re: JimFromTN]
B.D.
8 Point


Registered: 03/24/08
Posts: 1484
Loc: Hendersonville TN

Offline
 Originally Posted By: JimFromTN

I don't want to put the fly shops out of business. I think beginners should buy cheap and once they get into it, go to the fly shop and buy the $400 orvis rod.


I agree with this. Most of my rods now are from G. Loomis, but I'd never recommend that someone buy a $650 rod for their very first flyrod.

That said, "cheap" is a relative term. Unfortunately, most of the decent-quality entry level flyrods are between $100 and $150. I think TFO really stands out in this category. Bass Pro and Cabela's offer some cheaper combos (I think Bass Pro's Dogwood Canyon combo is about $75 for rod, reel, line, and all). However, the quality is just not there. In my opinion, those rods will make you regret not buying something nicer if you stick with it very long.

bd

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