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#1186320 - 02/17/09 03:36 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: ewc]
bowriter
Non-Typical


Registered: 08/31/02
Posts: 41872
Loc: Lebanon,TN USA

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But aint this what it is all about?

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#1186392 - 02/17/09 04:30 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: bowriter]
bigluresonly
6 Point


Registered: 04/09/08
Posts: 771
Loc: Cookeville

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Thats an awesome striper HH.
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#1186869 - 02/17/09 08:46 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: bigluresonly]
Tubakka
6 Point


Registered: 12/19/07
Posts: 782
Loc: Tennessee

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EWC,
Shocking only goes to 8 feet under the optimum conditions, at least off a boat boom. I have been in my fair share of shocking boats, both before and after I was in college. It was HIGHLY effective on Crab Orchard lake, a eutrophic shallow and murky water lake with most depths being 5-8 feet. It was far LESS effective on Kinkaid Lake where the depths of such fish were condiserably deeper, the desired quarry in many cases, muskellunge, were not as affected by the current and could usually dart before being stunned or would make it far enough from being stunned that they would elude the net. Muskies had ot be netted in fact to be surveyed correctly, and only during the spawning season. Still somehow, they always kept placing their nets during the week of a large consistent cold front, and their numbers were dwindling from when they would plant them later when they first began.
The statement that weather and water conditions directly effect the relevancy of information taken by shocking in water where they do not exist at a point in time? Can't shock fish that aren't there. Look...I've been in the boat with biologists. Alot of them ARE anglers and know quite well what they are doing. Props. There are more than a few though, that do almost assanine things...placing nets along an island that has a 100 yard shallow flat running out from it before spilling into the abyss and wondering "Why that net doesn't produce?" for starters...when any angler worth their salt could tell you that the fish in that area aren't even aware that island exists because their shallow water was 100 yards out from it. The fisheries biologists who ARE astute anglers and knowledgeable in the area of interacting with fish on that level are credits to their field and what we need more of. There are then folks that for some odd reason choose the field who don't even know how to cast the rod, and then try to plug a fishery that can only be logically assessed from the standpoint of recreational angling into a math formula, and consider that gospel. I think you missed what I said. EVEN if shocking and formulas therein calculate accurately the number of fish in an given area...that DOES NOT MATTER> What matters, in the case of nearly ALL TN species AND FISHERIES is how many are being caught! It wouldn't matter how many trout were IN the Caney Fork, if they weren't being caught, they wouldnt generate revenue and they couldn't be stocked and then biologists would start losing their jobs. Does that make sense?
The only census that really ULTIMATELY matters inthese fisheries are what is CAUGHT. As for that, I remember reading the TU informational kiosk at the Happy Hollow ramp and while it provides good info on release and limits and the species themselves, it prints AS GOSPEL that according to SHOCKING there are only a couple fish right above 20" if that in a given mile of that river. Funny...my own creel has shown much higher than that, and judging by the nature of that...that I'm not even coming close to catching all the fish in a given section...there are FAR more than that in there. One SPECIFIC SPOT on the river produced a fish over 23.5" for me 5 trips consecutively, and lost a GIANT.

We used to fish behind the biologists up in Illinois, pulling bass off the channel breaklines on Newton Lake, a powerplant lake. One of them Illinois biologists had a tracking bug in one of them and we happened to pull it up, so he came over. We had a nice conversation and the kid finally said "What's out there? All my fish keep heading out there!"

...my dad and I both looked at each other and kinda grinned...

It was the creek channel, num-nuts. The fish were living in deep water and these guys still thought they were supposed to be crouched under some lily pad or brushpile in 5 feet of water. One time they got lucky, I hear, and spiked a school of bass that had come up to an 8 foot breakline by the boat dock and they flushed up like a covey of quail. The guys had never seen that, but of course, a good angler would know that those bass were schooled up most of the time and they just lucked out and hit the needle in the haystack when they moved up during optimal conditions [warm summer muggy day, almost always the best fishing].

Gil,
You never got it. I was never against flyfishing as a tactic. Does it have limitations that never get discussed? Yes. Does it get put on a pedestal? OOOOH yes. But any method in the right hands can be effective and catch fish. I just don't consider it the best way to target the largest trout under most circumstances. The only thing I have against it is...THE CULT. FLYFISHING ONLY! Where they turn a method into a MADNESS that pretty much says "You believe what we believe, do as we do, or you don't get to play..." and that sadly is what alot of waters are turning into or trying to. I don't mind people doing what they do, but the day they try to impose those methods and beliefs onto others is ridiculous. What they tried to do on the Clinch is a good show of that. I've told you what I think of the regs. If you want to throw something that imitates the larger prey of most of these predators on a big pixie stick, go for it. That's your deal. I fished regularly with a flyfishing GUIDE from East TN and then the saltwater fisheries of Port St. Jo....want a number and a ref? He had a 140 foot cast, and was just as good with a spey. But he would harvest fish more mercilessly than I did, and honestly was WAY more in your face that I'd ever have the gumption to be.

I really haven't fished that river that long, and I admit that. But it was always ASTOUNDING to me how things I had heard preached as GOSPEL were dispelled on almost a trip-by-trip basis. "Can't catch fish under two gens...and its dangerous" Well, knock that one off. "Can't catch trout under murky water..." Check...
"The Caney CAN'T GROW TROUT OVER 14 POUNDS BECAUSE OF THE LACK OF MACROINVERTEBRATES [FROM THE MOUTH OF A FLYFISHING GUIDE I KID YOU NOT, SPEAKING ON BROWN TROUT...this is your JOB, and you don't even know what your fish are EATING?!?! Know how many browns' stomach's I've seen? KNOW HOW MANY HELLGRAMITES OR INSECTS I FOUND IN FISH OVER 20"? NONE! ALL THREADFINS AND SCULPINS].

Look, you can't fault me for thinking what I think. It's based on nothing but first hand and second hand on the water experience. You want a good measure of just how many big fish are in that river? Go down to the gen cut and throw a big stick bait and watch how many 28" + fish turn on it. There is at least one brown down there I saw routinely that looked like a razorback boar [hence my using that term thereafter] that had to be 20 pounds. You think if muskies over 36" in a still water environment, a 12 pound fish were eluding shocking regularly, that a 20 pound brown in the current wouldn't have a problem getting away? Not saying it CAN'T happen, but not likely.

Wanna talk about biologists EWC? I think TN's programs are SUPERB, but Illinois? Trained biologists are stocking MUSKELLUNGE into lakes under 200 acres with a maximum depth of 12 feet, only in a few spots with no forage base other than bluegills and bass [not really forage, but they eat what's there...] with no interest in the species in that area, and risking the collapse of already established and desirable bass and panfish populations in an environment MADE for them, with NO stunted populations...I'd like to see how they're justifying that...what FORMULA they're using....

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#1186885 - 02/17/09 08:51 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: Tubakka]
Tubakka
6 Point


Registered: 12/19/07
Posts: 782
Loc: Tennessee

Offline
Oh...

...HH, sick striper man. Love to get into one of those.

...Bowriter...amen brother. I hate that it comes to this all to often. I've tried to stay my mouth these past months. I don't think relationships with people are worth a few fish here or there...especially stocked ones. One way or the other...we all live, and we can all have fun out there. It's a shame all this gets stirred up. But this was absurd....in fact, I've been so jazzed about coming back to fish BECAUSE of all the big fish pics my friends have been sending. Don't know what you guys have been smokin'....


Gil....btw...once again, such an issue...if your fly guys were real anglers [multifaceted and versatile, not ingrained with a single tactic for fear of degrading their clout or character] they'd already KNOW the jerkbait/bait report because they'd have already used that tactic at their dispense to further strain the water and exercise all manner of control in the pursuit of their quarry. I'd use fly if I could...but I never saw it as really that beneficial to my angling at that point judging by how much time and money I'd have to invest in just learning HOW to do it. But if I already had the technical skill to employ it, I would have. If I'm not catching muskies on big jerkbaits and crankbaits, I switch over to bass jigs and pitch the brush. The issue all along has been the adamancy to NOT stray to "other methods". you never heard that...that attitude needs to stop, for all our sakes.

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#1186943 - 02/17/09 09:30 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: B.D.]
shorefisherman
6 Point


Registered: 04/07/08
Posts: 620
Loc: West SSiiide Putnam Co.

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 Originally Posted By: Brian Dunigan
The Caney is definitely slumping. Numbers of big fish are WAY down from what they were 6-8 months ago. I'm still seeing decent numbers of browns up to 17", but hits and "drive-bys" from the real trophy class fish have dwindled to a fraction of what they were before Oct./Nov.


I dont see any depletion of 20"+ browns in the caney, caught plenty of it this year. in fact most of it coulple weekends ago, now i dont know if im catchin the same fish that i caught and released before but their in there, just harder to catch.

now bd, unless your fishin the caney everyday, i dont know how your going to say the bigger browns are slumping from your one day outing of fishin observation.

and comparing from their last spawning run to your last outing...the bigger browns done their thing and moved, at least the smarter ones did, just like bw said the big fish are always on the move (for the most part) cuz they get real hungry!

cool pic bw.

nice rockfish hillbilly hunter, thats what im talkin about! i cant wait

i think im at 5 pgs \:D
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#1187034 - 02/17/09 10:42 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: shorefisherman]
gil1
12 Point


Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 6339
Loc: Nashville, TN

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I didn't read one single sentence of ole Tartar Sauce's diatribe (swear to God), but let me take a stab at it.

I am the best fisherman I know.

Flyfishing sucks. Flyfishermen suck. Trout Unlimited sux. If you don't fish the way I do, you suck. In fact, I am the only one that doesn't suck, except for Buck Perry, who knows everything there is to know about fishing. Bilogists and guides don't know anything about anything water-related. Buck Perry and I prove this often in water that folks say can't hold fish. We catch a fish on almost every cast. I swear.

Let me tell you a few stories about huge trout on the Caney just to pad my ego. Wait, let's see if I can throw some biology terms in there so you'll think I have a clue. Y'all are all so stupid you'll probably fall for it.

It's very important to be versatile in your fishing, as long as you never fly fish. Even though fly fishing is horrible and the worst possible way to catch 10 pound brown trout, it's fine if you do it, as long as you understand that the way you like to fish is all wrong.

Oh, and in the greatest irony of all, let me point out that all fishermen are snobs who don't do it my way. Please be mindful that my way is the only way, and try not to enjoy your fishing experience knowing that I am much better than you.

I see lots of huge fish on the Caney (mostly from Florida). I catch huge trout. I am the best fisherman I know. Maybe y'all didn't hear that the first seven thousand times I said it. I teach people how to catch fish and eat them, so it's okay that I tell everyone they suck. I'm not bragging, I'm just stating facts. So where's my applause?

I know more about musky fishing than anyone ever born. For some reason unknown to anyone, this completely irrelevant horn blowing is important for everyone to hear dozens of times in a thread about trout fishing on the Caney Fork River.

I have no idea how to start a new paragraph. \:D

Tubs

So how'd I do? ;\)

Perhaps we could get back on topic now.
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It is not the killing ...; it is the contest of skill and cunning. The true hunter counts his achievement in proportion to the effort involved and the fairness of the sport.

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#1187106 - 02/18/09 04:44 AM Re: Caney Fork [Re: gil1]
Chris Tripp
10 Point


Registered: 10/20/05
Posts: 3762
Loc: Brush Creek, TN

Offline
I saw we put a fortified wall around the river and keep everyone out...lol that is unless you are a DeKalb or Smith county resident. Jk... all joking aside, what an arguement over a put and take fisherie. Divide and conquer.
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#1187139 - 02/18/09 05:51 AM Re: Caney Fork [Re: Chris Tripp]
bigluresonly
6 Point


Registered: 04/09/08
Posts: 771
Loc: Cookeville

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Holy crap Gil, Im rollin!
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#1187494 - 02/18/09 08:48 AM Re: Caney Fork [Re: bigluresonly]
Headhunter
10 Point


Registered: 11/14/00
Posts: 3968
Loc: LaVergne, TN USA

Offline
I am TUBS!! I am the greatest!! I talk to Buck Perry every few minutes through my crystal ball. If you do not listen to me, you will be forever lost in a world of people who cannot catch a fish. I know everything and if you do not believe me, just ask me.
Actually, j/k there Tubs, but good day, I am more full of "you know what" than most anyone, and I cannot even understand what you wrote other than you must be a fishing god of some kind. Hopefully I will see you on the Caney and if something bad happens to me you can perform a miracle and save me.
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#1188392 - 02/18/09 04:05 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: shorefisherman]
B.D.
8 Point


Registered: 03/24/08
Posts: 1484
Loc: Hendersonville TN

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 Originally Posted By: shorefisherman

now bd, unless your fishin the caney everyday, i dont know how your going to say the bigger browns are slumping from your one day outing of fishin observation.


I'm on the Caney plenty, Shore. In fact, I was on the Caney not too awful long ago on a day when you drove your camo jon boat right between the boat I was in and the bank I was casting to, with no throttling back and no mind to the 60 feet of river behind me. But that's another topic.

This ain't my first season following big brown trout - I know about their movements. They're actually fairly predictable, not that different from hybrids and stripers, in a way. All due respect, I fish fly gear these days, but I figured out the jerkbait deal long before Tuba set foot on the Caney. To me, it's just not as enjoyable a way to fish.

Those fish aren't suddenly "just harder to catch" - there's not as many of them there.

bd

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