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#1198815 - 02/24/09 04:07 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: gil1]
bowriter
Non-Typical


Registered: 08/31/02
Posts: 41931
Loc: Lebanon,TN USA

Offline
Wen it is dem crappy or bream perch or sawgers, I is fishing fo de table, me. Same wid dem crawperch and soft hided crabs. En I'll take a 1-pound Kentucky spotted bass every time, me.

But I aint never throwed but one cheeseburger back. It like to made me puke. Tasted a lot like trout perch.

That's what I'm talking about, me!



BTW- Those are bream fillets.
_________________________

Constipation has ruined many a good day. Not as many as stupidity, though.

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#1198833 - 02/24/09 04:20 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: bowriter]
MFBAB
10 Point


Registered: 01/08/08
Posts: 2985
Loc: Memphis, TN

Offline
You think that river is crowded now, I'd hate to see the ramp if they did have $20's in 'em!
_________________________
Missed it by that much....

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#1198876 - 02/24/09 04:42 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: gil1]
B.D.
8 Point


Registered: 03/24/08
Posts: 1484
Loc: Hendersonville TN

Offline
 Originally Posted By: gil1

I get it. I really do. But it wouldn't matter what it tasted like to me. If it were a fat steak, I would release it. If it had a $20 bill in it, I'd release it. My point is that my recreational happiness is worth more to me than my stomach or money. Not only that, but I can have both if I eat my steak after I go fishing. You can't have both if you eat the fish.


We look at it slightly differently. It's not so much "food over fishing" or vice versa. Eating a fish every once in a while is PART of the fishing experience. I don't do it every time - not anywhere close. But every few trips, I put a couple trout in the cooler. Not a bunch - 2 or 3 decent sized trout is plenty for a meal. I like to pretend I'm a "gourmet chef" from time to time, and there's nothing like an almond-crusted, wild-caught rainbow trout with a nice glass of wine to top off an evening after a day on the water.

Kroger just ain't the same - if you could buy venison at Kroger, would you put down your bow and only carry a camera to your deer stand?

 Quote:
The problem lies in the fact that those who prefer food over fishing negatively impact my preference for good fishing over food.


You aren't saying you don't catch 15" trout every time you go, are you? They're just so routine to me...



bd

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#1198892 - 02/24/09 04:54 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: gil1]
Fordman
12 Point


Registered: 08/06/00
Posts: 5871
Loc: Rockvale,tn

Offline
 Originally Posted By: gil1
 Originally Posted By: Fordman
Anyone think this is 9 and maybe 10 pages of exposure the river might not need? What about the boat rental places? I am pushing for anyone who uses public water for personal gain to have to pay a fee ie Guide license and a per boat tax...

I agree with the guiding fee and not just for the Caney. Unless there's an even better solution.

I agree with the exposure problem to an extent (I'm finally coming around on this subject ;\) ), but I believe it is mitigated in this case because the discussion is about angling pressure and depletion of resources. When all this regulation stuff comes up in a few months, you can bet I'll be trying to get as much exposure as possible. IMO, All sides should be out in the open so people can have an informed opinion.

But here's the bone I'm going to pick with you, my friend. You are a guide. You are on the Caney more than most. You have a lot at stake when it comes to this river. When it comes to regulations and such, you tuck and run. Where are you? Why are you not SCREAMING on this thread for positive change?

In my opinion, you don't have the right to complain about anything if you aren't willing to speak up for it. I say the same thing to JM, Jordan, Anderson, and anybody else whose opinion I respect concerning the rivers. We're all on the same team and friends, but I don't understand hiding from the issues except when you're in a safe little fly shop.

If your argument is that you can't afford to piss off prospective clients, please explain that to me. I mean, isn't catch and release mandatory on you boat on the Caney? How many clients do you get that demand to eat all their fish anyway?

I'm beating on you a little, but it's been bothering me, and I really want to know.


Ok I was not going to even bother responding but... you have called me out so why not.
First and foremost I did not do ONE single day on the caney fork as a guide in 2008. I choose to stay on other rivers because I have friends, who are all hiding in the safety of a little fly shop, who depend on that river to make a living so its a respect thing Gil1. They send me a lot of warm water guide trips and I send every client who wants to fish the caney to the guy who is hiding in his little flyshop. Can you tell that I think that was a chicken shat thing for you to say yet?
Second I have attended more commision meeting in two years than you have in the past five so lets not go there. Were you at the meeting about tele check? Have you taken the time to get to know the commisioners? Tell me when is the meeting that the commision wants to hear from the people about the caney? I am sure you know when that is.
Now back on track. I log more days fishing than most folks and here is my little two cents worth on the caney. First no regulations are going to be worth the paper they get printed on until the stocking/enforcement issues are fixed. There is no stocking in the lower end of the river and nearly ZERO enforcement. Now anyone thats been involved in this issue knows that the enforcment above the smith county line is outstanding but below that line is needs some serious help. When the new commission get on board you can bet I will be at those meetings and I will be the one pushing for statewide guides license. In fact I have the numbers from 4 states that require them and they are very convincing. Its my opinion that we should be more concerned with the increased non angling traffic. Why are YOU not screaming to regulate the amount of rental boats that can be on the river? I have read no less than three times where you made references to the amount of non angling traffic. Dont throw stones my friend when you live in a glass house which we all do.
All that said yes my boat is catch and release only and if a client wants to keep fish then I am not the guide they need. Now I am going to hide in the safety of that little flyshop and talk about what should be done to protect the river. Have a nice day!


Edited by Fordman (02/24/09 04:59 PM)

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#1198968 - 02/24/09 05:59 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: B.D.]
madMax
4 Point


Registered: 04/09/08
Posts: 130
Loc: Middle TN

Offline
Can we get 20 pages? Anyone?

I must agree with those that point out the irony of this situation - which is the correlation between river pressure and internet exposure...

The same people who guide, make websites, and post threads and reports about the infamous Caney Fork are the same ppl that cry about how crowded "their" river is. Is it not common sense that the more exposure the river gets, especially on the internet, the more crowded it will get? This means...

-more "Meathunters"
-more Recreational boaters, canoes, and kayakers
-more Fly flingin' hippy "trouthuggers"
-and JUST MORE PEOPLE PERIOD!

In the 1990s as people like Bowriter and others have pointed out this was the same river...30' trout were still being caught. It still had cycles of good years and bad years. The only difference is not many people knew about it. Now we are in a new era.. An era where flaming 20 page threads pop up on numerous Tennessee Fishing websites every 6 months. Posts that act as advertisements, that draw in more people and more people and more people than the year before. People from all walks of life. People with different agendas and opinions...

There has to be a road in the middle - and I can guarantee threads like this won't get us there. Im not saying I know what that route is but I know this isnt it. I think we can all agree the infamous Caney Fork sure isnt "infamous" anymore....

20 pages here we come!

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#1199019 - 02/24/09 06:25 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: B.D.]
gil1
12 Point


Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 6339
Loc: Nashville, TN

Offline
 Originally Posted By: Brian Dunigan
We look at it slightly differently. It's not so much "food over fishing" or vice versa. Eating a fish every once in a while is PART of the fishing experience.
bd

I totally get that. That's fine by me. It's just not part of MY fishing experience.

 Originally Posted By: Brian Dunigan
there's nothing like an almond-crusted, wild-caught rainbow trout with a nice glass of wine to top off an evening after a day on the water.

bd


See, to me, there's nothing like catching a fish. Killing them hurts the fishing. Obviously, I'm very selfish about fishing.


 Originally Posted By: Brian Dunigan

Kroger just ain't the same - if you could buy venison at Kroger, would you put down your bow and only carry a camera to your deer stand?


Man, that's a good question. Except aiming and putting a clean kill on the animal is part of the fun of hunting for me (that didn't sound very good, but it's true). Killing a fish isn't part of the fun for me. Letting it go and catching it again is the fun part.

Now the real question is, if you could shoot a deer with a bullet that just put it to sleep for a while but didn't kill it, would you? I know it's crazy, but the answer is yes. The hunt is more important to me than the meat and the kill, so I'd do it unless it were a case of the property needing that type of management.
_________________________
It is not the killing ...; it is the contest of skill and cunning. The true hunter counts his achievement in proportion to the effort involved and the fairness of the sport.

Dr. Saxton Pope

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#1199086 - 02/24/09 06:51 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: Fordman]
gil1
12 Point


Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 6339
Loc: Nashville, TN

Offline
 Originally Posted By: Fordman
Ok I was not going to even bother responding but... you have called me out so why not.
First and foremost I did not do ONE single day on the caney fork as a guide in 2008. I choose to stay on other rivers because I have friends, who are all hiding in the safety of a little fly shop, who depend on that river to make a living so its a respect thing Gil1. They send me a lot of warm water guide trips and I send every client who wants to fish the caney to the guy who is hiding in his little flyshop. Can you tell that I think that was a chicken shat thing for you to say yet?


Please explain. I love those guys and tell them to their faces that they are hiding. I consider them good friends. How in the world is telling the forum and your friends the truth chicken shat? I have no idea why y'all are hiding. I swear to God I have no idea what you mean. Respect for what? You can't say how you feel because you have friends (as I do) that work at a fly shop? How would anything you say affect your friends' fly shop? Seriously, I'm missing the whole deal I think. Does this have anything to do with changing your username back?

 Originally Posted By: Fordman
Second I have attended more commision meeting in two years than you have in the past five so lets not go there. Were you at the meeting about tele check? Have you taken the time to get to know the commisioners? Tell me when is the meeting that the commision wants to hear from the people about the caney? I am sure you know when that is.


You have no idea how much respect I have for that. So if you care enough to stand up for these issues in front of the Commisssion, why not here? I just still don't understand why you (or anyone - not singling you out) can talk about some things but won't talk about other things I know you believe are important on this forum - see above. Just explain the connection, and I'll shut up.

 Originally Posted By: Fordman
Why are YOU not screaming to regulate the amount of rental boats that can be on the river? I have read no less than three times where you made references to the amount of non angling traffic. Dont throw stones my friend when you live in a glass house which we all do.


If that were the topic, I would gladly talk about it. But until lately, I haven't really known how I felt. In other words, yes, I think traffic sux, but I didn't have a clue what to do about it. I'm still not sure I do, but I've heard ideas of guide fees, etc. that sound good to me. I just didn't have any solutions to scream about. Heck, I didn't mean to not talk about it - just didn't know what to do about it.

 Originally Posted By: Fordman
Now back on track. I log more days fishing than most folks and here is my little two cents worth on the caney. First no regulations are going to be worth the paper they get printed on until the stocking/enforcement issues are fixed. There is no stocking in the lower end of the river and nearly ZERO enforcement. Now anyone thats been involved in this issue knows that the enforcment above the smith county line is outstanding but below that line is needs some serious help. When the new commission get on board you can bet I will be at those meetings and I will be the one pushing for statewide guides license. In fact I have the numbers from 4 states that require them and they are very convincing. Its my opinion that we should be more concerned with the increased non angling traffic.

All that said yes my boat is catch and release only and if a client wants to keep fish then I am not the guide they need. Now I am going to hide in the safety of that little flyshop and talk about what should be done to protect the river. Have a nice day!


Hey, man, the above is all I'm asking for. Even though we love to disagree with each other, I respect your opinion because you know a bunch more about the issues than I do. Do I really have to piss you off before you talk about this stuff? I like pissing you off anyway, so that's fine with me. \:D Well, you're out of the closet now. There's no turning back. I expect to hear more on these issues. We need all the help we can get.

Dern! We're going to go over 10 pages!
_________________________
It is not the killing ...; it is the contest of skill and cunning. The true hunter counts his achievement in proportion to the effort involved and the fairness of the sport.

Dr. Saxton Pope

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#1199099 - 02/24/09 06:55 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: madMax]
gil1
12 Point


Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 6339
Loc: Nashville, TN

Offline
 Originally Posted By: MaxD
Can we get 20 pages? Anyone?

I must agree with those that point out the irony of this situation - which is the correlation between river pressure and internet exposure...

The same people who guide, make websites, and post threads and reports about the infamous Caney Fork are the same ppl that cry about how crowded "their" river is. Is it not common sense that the more exposure the river gets, especially on the internet, the more crowded it will get? This means...

-more "Meathunters"
-more Recreational boaters, canoes, and kayakers
-more Fly flingin' hippy "trouthuggers"
-and JUST MORE PEOPLE PERIOD!

In the 1990s as people like Bowriter and others have pointed out this was the same river...30' trout were still being caught. It still had cycles of good years and bad years. The only difference is not many people knew about it. Now we are in a new era.. An era where flaming 20 page threads pop up on numerous Tennessee Fishing websites every 6 months. Posts that act as advertisements, that draw in more people and more people and more people than the year before. People from all walks of life. People with different agendas and opinions...

There has to be a road in the middle - and I can guarantee threads like this won't get us there. Im not saying I know what that route is but I know this isnt it. I think we can all agree the infamous Caney Fork sure isnt "infamous" anymore....

20 pages here we come!


Great post. I agree, but I'm not so sure this thread is as bad as the "look at what I caught" threads. I'm certainly guilty of those, although they're often about what I didn't catch.

I think these issues are important enough to discuss. I don't know, maybe it does hurt the resource more than it helps it. Maybe.
_________________________
It is not the killing ...; it is the contest of skill and cunning. The true hunter counts his achievement in proportion to the effort involved and the fairness of the sport.

Dr. Saxton Pope

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#1200556 - 02/25/09 12:37 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: gil1]
bowriter
Non-Typical


Registered: 08/31/02
Posts: 41931
Loc: Lebanon,TN USA

Offline
"I must agree with those that point out the irony of this situation - which is the correlation between river pressure and internet exposure..."

This just jumped out at me. Internet exposure is a minor factor in the upsurge of fishing pressure on the Caney. I started it 25 years ago when I started writing articles for national publications about the trout fishing. Then H. Lea Lawrence jumped in and it went from there.

Yes, some of the folks on that river read about it online. Most did not.

It is 95% the fault of the fancy schmazy fly flingers who made it fashinable to wear $600 worth of clothes and smoke pipes and say thing like, "Honor the fish...Bow to the fish." And stuff like "Is it spelled Wulf or Wolf and is it Lea or Lee?"

Then they say things like, "@#$%^&*some no good@#$%^& stole my car." And his buddy says, "@#$%^ your car, my boat was behind it."
_________________________

Constipation has ruined many a good day. Not as many as stupidity, though.

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#1200603 - 02/25/09 01:14 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: bowriter]
bob
4 Point


Registered: 04/18/08
Posts: 116
Loc: tn

Offline
I was conceived on the Caney back when there wasnít even a Dam there and have spent so much time fishing it that now Iím part man part Trout. My name is Buffalo Bob, the Buffalo is for Buffalo Valley where I spent my youth learning the ways of the wily stocker truck Trout. I was like a ninja when the stocking truck appeared. I would blend in with the stocking tube and pluck unsuspecting freshly stocked trout out like picking daises. I was also the one who made the Trophy the section and am responsible for pretty much everything good or bad that has ever happened on that river. Including the time I saved Uncle Thadbakerís prized Black Angus calf from being eaten alive by Vultures after it got stuck in the mud on the riverbank. Itís ashamed what some of the fishermen before me did to that poor helpless calfÖ

Just ask anyone about ole Caney Fork Buffalo Bob and youíll soon find out Iím the most unknown know it all on that river.

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