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#1183817 - 02/16/09 02:46 PM Caney Fork
B.D.
8 Point


Registered: 03/24/08
Posts: 1484
Loc: Hendersonville TN

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The Caney is definitely slumping. Numbers of big fish are WAY down from what they were 6-8 months ago. I'm still seeing decent numbers of browns up to 17", but hits and "drive-bys" from the real trophy class fish have dwindled to a fraction of what they were before Oct./Nov.

I'm hearing unconfirmed rumors that TWRA did a new shocking survey b/n the Dam and Happy and turned up nothing better than a single 24" brown. There are still a few big fish, to be sure, but they've been thinned out to a tiny fraction of what they were last spring. Looks like Tubakka's disciples of "pound 'em with jerkbaits and harvest all the legal browns for the grill" are providing us with the inevitable result of an 18" size limit: a 17" fishery.

More detailed report:

http://www.fishingtn.com/showthread.php?t=2755

bd


Edited by Brian Dunigan (02/16/09 02:49 PM)

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#1183937 - 02/16/09 03:54 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: ]
gil1
12 Point


Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 6339
Loc: Nashville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: timeless
Who the hell made you the authority on the Caney? A six mile stretch of water does not a fishery make.

I agree. I'm the authority!!! \:D

No big surprise. Remember all the reports of lunkers caught last winter? Barely a peep this year.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that if you kill tons and tons of big fish, there will be less big fish. It wouldn't suprise me if the river had 10x more traffic last year than it ever had, with a large contingent of those folks killing fish. That's none of my business, but it just makes sense that the river would get fairly cleaned out.

I'll be the first to admit my selfishness - I can't wait until the word gets out that the fishery isn't as good so the traffic will die down. I counted over a hundred folks in a short stretch a couple of weekends ago. Just two years ago, you would have only seen a handful of folks on a winter's day. If you build it, they will come. If you abuse it, they will go deplete some other resource. Makes me sad, but that's the way it always happens.
_________________________
It is not the killing ...; it is the contest of skill and cunning. The true hunter counts his achievement in proportion to the effort involved and the fairness of the sport.

Dr. Saxton Pope

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#1183953 - 02/16/09 04:10 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: ]
B.D.
8 Point


Registered: 03/24/08
Posts: 1484
Loc: Hendersonville TN

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Thanks for your polite response, timeless!

I've spent my share of time on every mile of the Caney from the dam to the Cumby.

Authority or no, it ain't rocket surgery to know it's not the same fishery now that it was last spring before the free-for-all started. If you disagree, maybe you need to quit smoking that corn and go back to using it for bait.

\:\)

bd


Edited by DEER DAVID (02/16/09 04:28 PM)

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#1183967 - 02/16/09 04:27 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: ]
gil1
12 Point


Registered: 04/06/07
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Loc: Nashville, TN

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A. Here we go! There hasn't been a knock down drag out Caney thread in 6 months, which is incidentally another reason to believe the Caney is at least slightly swirling down the old fishery toilet.

B. Dunigan pays for his fishing addiction by arguing with people. Be vewy caweful when jousting with a pro.

C. For those that are interested in more progressive fisheries management, there has never been a better time to ask for more Caney regulations. The surge of big fish after the new brown regs. seems to be clear. It is my opinion that the Commisssion, with the help of TWRA, could be convinced that the decline is due to overharvest of some trout age groups. I'm ready to strike while it's hot.
_________________________
It is not the killing ...; it is the contest of skill and cunning. The true hunter counts his achievement in proportion to the effort involved and the fairness of the sport.

Dr. Saxton Pope

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#1183969 - 02/16/09 04:28 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: ]
Model70Man
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Registered: 09/30/05
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In before the Lock!
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#1183980 - 02/16/09 04:41 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: ]
fishboy1
16 Point


Registered: 01/13/03
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Oh goodie! More regulations! WOOOOO HOOOOOO!
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#1183981 - 02/16/09 04:42 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: ]
B.D.
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1. Hey, I just answered in the same spirit you brought to the discussion. Don't dish it out if you can't take it.

2. Put me in my place in your own mind, perhaps.

bd

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#1183988 - 02/16/09 04:46 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: fishboy1]
B.D.
8 Point


Registered: 03/24/08
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 Originally Posted By: fishboy1
Oh goodie! More regulations! WOOOOO HOOOOOO!


Well yeah, that's what we're talking about - more regulations. Or, at least, a little tightening of the existing ones.

We can make a decision: do we want more & bigger trout, or are we content with stocker rainbows fresh off the truck and browns up to 17"? Can't have the big fish AND no regs with the pressure the Caney sees now.

"Timeless" apparently remembers when the crowds were restricted to the top 6 miles, but with the ramp at the ballfields getting more traffic nowadays, that's not the case anymore.

bd


Edited by Brian Dunigan (02/16/09 04:47 PM)

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#1184006 - 02/16/09 05:00 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: B.D.]
bowriter
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Uhhhh does anyone happen to remember me posting last summer that this would be a down year for the big trout?

I hate it when I am right.

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Constipation has ruined many a good day. Not as many as stupidity, though.

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#1184013 - 02/16/09 05:03 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: bowriter]
B.D.
8 Point


Registered: 03/24/08
Posts: 1484
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I do remember. I hate it when you're right too. \:\)

bd

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#1184021 - 02/16/09 05:07 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: bowriter]
gil1
12 Point


Registered: 04/06/07
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Loc: Nashville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: bowriter
Uhhhh does anyone happen to remember me posting last summer that this would be a down year for the big trout?

I hate it when I am right.



I recall your saying that you couldn't kill enough fish to see the difference, that the Caney had enough big fish that you would never be able to dent the fishery. Correct me if I'm wrong. Or are you just saying we're on a downward side of the cyclical trend we always talk about?

Watch - this thread will be 10 pages. Life was getting boring anyway. \:\)
_________________________
It is not the killing ...; it is the contest of skill and cunning. The true hunter counts his achievement in proportion to the effort involved and the fairness of the sport.

Dr. Saxton Pope

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#1184277 - 02/16/09 07:47 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: B.D.]
jakeway
TnDeer Old Timer
10 Point


Registered: 11/22/99
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 Originally Posted By: Brian Dunigan
 Originally Posted By: fishboy1
Oh goodie! More regulations! WOOOOO HOOOOOO!


...

"Timeless" apparently remembers when the crowds were restricted to the top 6 miles, but with the ramp at the ballfields getting more traffic nowadays, that's not the case anymore.

bd



Ballfields? No one told me about any ballfields! You mean I don't have to carry my canoe from the I40 Rest stop?
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#1184363 - 02/16/09 08:25 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: jakeway]
trealtree
16 Point


Registered: 09/29/04
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Just because me and tubs are not out there catching big trout, doesn't mean they aren't there. Have u fished with a jerk bait lately....lol
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#1184916 - 02/16/09 10:07 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: trealtree]
gil1
12 Point


Registered: 04/06/07
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Loc: Nashville, TN

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I haven't heard much this winter from the jerkbaiters. Surely Tubby Tubs didn't take all y'all with him down to Gatorland? I'd like to hear how the jerkers and baiters did this winter. How 'bout it Shorefisherman, Bigluresonly, etc.?
_________________________
It is not the killing ...; it is the contest of skill and cunning. The true hunter counts his achievement in proportion to the effort involved and the fairness of the sport.

Dr. Saxton Pope

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#1184972 - 02/16/09 10:13 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: gil1]
JA1234
10 Point


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I am going in a week or two and plan on chunking minnows,corn, night crawlers, salmon eggs in red and green, and maybe a rooster tail and jerk bait or two.. I just need a 20 incher a day for the three days I am there to fill me up. \:D
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#1184978 - 02/16/09 10:14 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: gil1]
gil1
12 Point


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Yes, I'd prefer a strictly catch and release fishery, but just because I'm lovable \:D , here is the proposal I will be pushing for.

Statewide regs. is what we need for all TN tailwater fisheries.
5 rainbows and/or brookies outside the slot of 13-20 inches. 1 brown only, must be 26 inches or better.
_________________________
It is not the killing ...; it is the contest of skill and cunning. The true hunter counts his achievement in proportion to the effort involved and the fairness of the sport.

Dr. Saxton Pope

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#1185006 - 02/16/09 10:20 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: JA1234]
gil1
12 Point


Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 6339
Loc: Nashville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: Joey A
I am going in a week or two and plan on chunking minnows,corn, night crawlers, salmon eggs in red and green, and maybe a rooster tail and jerk bait or two.. I just need a 20 incher a day for the three days I am there to fill me up. \:D

You are selling yourself short, my friend. That's too dern hard! If your cast net has a long enough rope, you can toss that sucker off any of the bridges and clean up! Nighttime is the best time. Fry those puppies up and still leave room for a few brookies for striper bait! \:D

I can't remember if I posted it, but the last time I was up there, there were 2 young guys in a canoe-like boat who had this bigazz grille right in the middle of the boat. They were fishin' and fryin' at the same time. I assume it was legal. Dudes were offering to cook up people's fish for them while we all floated down. I wanted to be pissed but it was the funniest and most ingenious thing I've seen in a while. \:D
_________________________
It is not the killing ...; it is the contest of skill and cunning. The true hunter counts his achievement in proportion to the effort involved and the fairness of the sport.

Dr. Saxton Pope

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#1185066 - 02/16/09 10:47 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: gil1]
B.D.
8 Point


Registered: 03/24/08
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 Originally Posted By: gil1

I recall your saying that you couldn't kill enough fish to see the difference, that the Caney had enough big fish that you would never be able to dent the fishery.


I thought that was Tuba that said that. If bowriter said that, chalk me up as disagreeing.

The Caney doesn't follow natural cycles like a wild stream, where you have strong year classes and weak year classes depending on favorable conditions for the spawn. Good spawning conditions or bad, the stocking truck dumps fish in just the same.

There are two big things that affect the Caney. First is water quality, which TWRA & the Corps are improving - though some years are inevitably better than others. The second is harvest. If it takes "x" number of years to grow an 18" brown trout, and half of Nashville is down there every weekend, every year putting 18" browns on stringers, it's going to put a dent in the numbers.

bd


Edited by Brian Dunigan (02/16/09 10:50 PM)

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#1185072 - 02/16/09 10:56 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: B.D.]
Trapper John
TnDeer Old Timer
16 Point


Registered: 03/13/99
Posts: 11829
Loc: La Vergne,TN/Decaturville, TN

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I only eat rainbows.

I leave the browns for you guys.

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#1185184 - 02/17/09 05:56 AM Re: Caney Fork [Re: gil1]
bowriter
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Registered: 08/31/02
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 Originally Posted By: gil1
 Originally Posted By: bowriter
Uhhhh does anyone happen to remember me posting last summer that this would be a down year for the big trout?

I hate it when I am right.



I recall your saying that you couldn't kill enough fish to see the difference, that the Caney had enough big fish that you would never be able to dent the fishery. Correct me if I'm wrong. Or are you just saying we're on a downward side of the cyclical trend we always talk about?

Watch - this thread will be 10 pages. Life was getting boring anyway. \:\)


Yes, Gil, that is exactly what I am saying. Been seeing it for over 30 years. Every four to five years, you have a boomer like last year. Then you go back to normal Caney fishing. The fish are there, they just aren't in the same place. There are just not enough of those big fish caught and kept...or caught and released for that matter, to effect the fishing in the way we are discussing. And 95% of the fishermen are fishing the wrong end of the river.

It is very much like menopause.
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#1185190 - 02/17/09 06:02 AM Re: Caney Fork [Re: B.D.]
bowriter
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Registered: 08/31/02
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 Originally Posted By: Brian Dunigan
 Originally Posted By: gil1

I recall your saying that you couldn't kill enough fish to see the difference, that the Caney had enough big fish that you would never be able to dent the fishery.


I thought that was Tuba that said that. If bowriter said that, chalk me up as disagreeing.

The Caney doesn't follow natural cycles like a wild stream, where you have strong year classes and weak year classes depending on favorable conditions for the spawn. Good spawning conditions or bad, the stocking truck dumps fish in just the same.

There are two big things that affect the Caney. First is water quality, which TWRA & the Corps are improving - though some years are inevitably better than others. The second is harvest. If it takes "x" number of years to grow an 18" brown trout, and half of Nashville is down there every weekend, every year putting 18" browns on stringers, it's going to put a dent in the numbers.

bd


If Tubs said, then I dissagree, too. \:\)

Brian you are right in some aspects. Yes, we agree on water quality. Yes, you can deplete a trophy class. But not on the Caney. Although the fishing pressure has increased 1000X since I first started fishing and guding on that river, we have seldom if ever had a better big fish year than last year. I sure can't recall one in 30 plus years of running that ditch.

But we have a big dissagreemnt on cyclical. You can bet your Orvis credit card that sucker is cyclical on the fish 8-pounds and up and it has nothing to do with fishing pressure. It has to do with where people are fishing. It is not nearly so much age calsses as it is movement of the fish due to forage and generation. One of the biggest detractors to the Caney is the rockfish population.

And maybe Gil and M-80 rocks.
_________________________

Constipation has ruined many a good day. Not as many as stupidity, though.

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#1185198 - 02/17/09 06:17 AM Re: Caney Fork [Re: bowriter]
ewc
8 Point


Registered: 02/01/02
Posts: 2259
Loc: Knoxville

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Rockfish don't eat trout.

They eat walleye, sauger, smallmouth bass, largemouth bass, and crappie (both white and black, but not black nose).

Occasionally, in certain drainage's, they gorge themselves on snail darters too-

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#1185201 - 02/17/09 06:21 AM Re: Caney Fork [Re: ewc]
bowriter
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Registered: 08/31/02
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EWC-They are the number one live bait for rockfish and big bass. If you are a zebra fishermen, I have to assume you are being sarcastic. \:\)
_________________________

Constipation has ruined many a good day. Not as many as stupidity, though.

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#1185217 - 02/17/09 06:34 AM Re: Caney Fork [Re: bowriter]
ewc
8 Point


Registered: 02/01/02
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\:\) Humor is how I start my day. You should have heard my routine before I left the house-

I was involved in the striped bass debacle in the mid-late 90's on Norris when every angler thought that SB gorged themselves on their "chosen" species.

I have caught rockfish up to 30# on trout here in EastTN. I know they will eat them, but I also know that trout is not their primary diet. They prey primarily on pelagic species.

However, they are opportunistic - just like the rest of us.

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#1185334 - 02/17/09 07:52 AM Re: Caney Fork [Re: bowriter]
B.D.
8 Point


Registered: 03/24/08
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Loc: Hendersonville TN

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 Originally Posted By: bowriter

But we have a big dissagreemnt on cyclical. You can bet your Orvis credit card that sucker is cyclical on the fish 8-pounds and up and it has nothing to do with fishing pressure. It has to do with where people are fishing. It is not nearly so much age calsses as it is movement of the fish due to forage and generation. One of the biggest detractors to the Caney is the rockfish population.


The stripers aren't eating many browns in the 8 pound class.

I would respectfully suggest that we "seldom had a better big fish year than last year" because we have now the best regulations we've seen in those 30 years, along with an unprecedented effort to improve water quality.

Unfortunately, that "best big fish year" also drew unprecedented pressure to the river. People were coming from Arkansas instead of going to the White, from Atlanta instead of going to the Hooch. The pressure overtook the new regs. We still probably have more 17 inch browns than ever, but that's where it cuts off.

Your "wrong end of the river" argument only goes so far. If you spent much time on the "wrong end of the river" last year, you saw more boats there than ever before, and a lot of big fish coming out on stringers that would have slipped by a few years ago. I know I did.

Besides, trout don't just move back and forth in the river with no rhyme or reason. It's predictable. When October-December rolls around, I can show you a list of spots where easily 85 percent of the browns over 16 in. will be congregated. All but about 5 of those spots got absolutely massacred during the spawn last fall. We're seeing the product of that now.

bd


Edited by Brian Dunigan (02/17/09 07:52 AM)

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#1185415 - 02/17/09 08:20 AM Re: Caney Fork [Re: B.D.]
Fordman
12 Point


Registered: 08/06/00
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hmmmm I wonder how much pressure was because of the internet talk forum publicity the river got. I have seen the same guy posting his "reports" on no less than four different forums....
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#1185688 - 02/17/09 10:09 AM Re: Caney Fork [Re: gil1]
Headhunter
10 Point


Registered: 11/14/00
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Hopefully there are still plenty of trout to use for bait for catching stripers.
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#1185689 - 02/17/09 10:10 AM Re: Caney Fork [Re: Fordman]
Tubakka
6 Point


Registered: 12/19/07
Posts: 782
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God....can't leave the kids in the room alone with the lightsocket...somebody's going to wet their finger up their @$$ and stick their finger in it...

I've not BEEN to the Caney since September [although that's going to change soon] and I still get props on here...outstanding. They ain't no such thing as bad press. Look, the reason I've been such a jerk over things in the past is such a thing as this...ignorance. Who gives a rat's what they shock up? I saw a study before that only showed a couple fish 20-21". Shocking...in a tailrace...is a joke. Shocking...in a lake...is a joke, UNLESS you apply proper knowledge to it. NO ONE in the field really applies the angling knowledge pertaining to weather and water conditions [i.e. you go shocking on Dale Hollow the day after a cold front? You ain't going to pull to many fish...in fact, you'd probably think the lake was DEAD, because they're all down 30-40 feet at least]. In the nature of a tailrace when you're dealing with current, that messes with things inherently, as fish automatically drift when stunned and may not rise up as planned for netting. The only place I can imagine it to be truly effective might be over up by the dam, right along that current line. It's only 5-7 feet deep there then and you might be able to take a good sample there. netting of course is out of the question. If you really want to see how many big fish are in there, go shocking during the spawn and watch how many 10-20 pound fish roll up. I've never been one too much to depend or give much notice to shocking surveys on larger or flowing waters. A pond? Yes. Not a large lake, and not a river, I don't care how many formulas they throw into it. 90% of the fish are in 10% of the water and all that...and most of the surveys conducted are "scientifically unbiased" so they don't take into account things most angler would know inherently. So if you're not shocking in that 10% of water, your numbers are skewed.
The only REAL way to assess a fishery is through FISHING. Creel reports and surveys and your own hook-and-line assessment. The state was shocking 10 pound walleyes out of Kinkaid Lake for years and people weren't catching them, thus all they were doing were depleting resources for bass and muskies and occasionally giving a crappie fisherman someting to write home about. It was wasted money and resources...and it didn't matter WHAT was being SHOCKED...even though the fish WERE there, they weren't being caught. The situation you describe on the Caney is reciprocal to this.
Of course, compared to Florida, TN is a genius of fisheries management. It continues to amaze me how they keep placing tighter and tighter regs on the snook fishermen when the real problem is the jewfish that live below the pier that are still a protected species under an archaic ruling...they can't be harvested, they can't be harmed...under any means...and they are sucking up 30-40 pound snook and redfish like a largemouth does a shiner, and the state wonders WHY THE REGS AREN'T MAKING THINGS BETTER???
All this aside, let's go by what people are CATCHING. Just because you aren't HEARING about it doesn't mean its not happening. I just get a small slice of that, but I know my boys were out a couple weeks ago, got 4 21"+ fish in about 3 hours, and then just called it quits. Another boat in the same party got 3. They've been routinely hooking and breaking off fish in the 30" class range, and seeing even larger. I had a friend, a psych professor I turned onto the jerkbait thing before I left, bring a 15" to the boat back a few months and had a brown [he got a good look at it...it was not a rockfish] come out from under the boat and slash it...slashed a 15" brown trout. He then again hooked a brown that he got to shore but was unable to land that he says had a head like a football. This is a man with a doctorate. He's got nothing to prove...he's not doing to lie. I myself, come up for 2 DAYS in September, and get several keeper fish, one being 25.5", and seeing a couple considerably larger behind my bait.
All this aside, anything you say concerning this is conjectural until a regulation is passed. I still get tickled by the fact that some think that at the current stocking rate that catch-and-release is the way to go. Gil, I love you.. you seem like a smart guy, but God man....it's called a Put-and-take FISHERY. The reason it exists is BECAUSE of harvest. You take that away, there will be NO FISH IN THE RIVER. Most of the people paying for trout stamps are harvesters. And I get sick of being labeled some stupid hick [the latter part I take some pride in] for wanting to harvest a couple nice fish now and then. And anyone who thinks that we should put stocked brown trout and rainbows under the same protective status that we do manatees and red pands is some kind of Prius-driving progressive thinker. It's a joke! And then you all get on here and squabble like a bunch of gulls yelling "Mine! MINE! MINE!" because you all think that it's YOUR fishery. Do I think there should be a slight alteration in regs? Yes. I think the minimum brown kept should be 20" 1 between that and 24", and then protected to 28-30" and then have that open for trophy fish. that is my take. For rainbows? There's a reason they're bigger for the most part down where no one fishes...I say protected slot for rainbows 14" to 20". That gives the old farts with their RVs down there to catch some dinner and enjoy themselves and them allows for some larger rainbows to grow. DO I tink t he regs at this point are a death sentence to the river? NO...angling ignorance is doing a good enough job at keeping the fishery safe for overharvest. It may seem like alot of fish to you guys, but the man I study after caught 120 bass between 4-12 pound out of a 22,000 acre lake...Apopka after the state of FL had said there were no game fish in it after shocking, netting, and even spiking sections of the lake. That WAS a very special situation, but I've never been one to think that the majority is ever really tapping into what a fishery has to offer. When there are still browns that come up and attack 15" trout, and guys catch 20 pound plus on live brook trout...I ask you again, how many of you are TARGETING those size fish with THAT large of prey? Ever notice how the largest rockfish in the Cumby almost always fall to someone using a 15-20" skipjack? not a 9-10" jerkbait or swimbait?

...alright I'm done.


Edited by Tubakka (02/17/09 10:12 AM)

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#1185690 - 02/17/09 10:10 AM Re: Caney Fork [Re: Tubakka]
Tubakka
6 Point


Registered: 12/19/07
Posts: 782
Loc: Tennessee

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..>RELEASE THE HOUNDS!!!....
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#1185743 - 02/17/09 10:39 AM Re: Caney Fork [Re: Tubakka]
bowriter
Non-Typical


Registered: 08/31/02
Posts: 41931
Loc: Lebanon,TN USA

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Well, I didn't read it all...in fact only the first one two sentences. But I have to agree with what little I read. Dam boy, learn how to make a paragraph!

Brian-I believe if we sat down to getrher, you...and I would find, we are saying the same thing, just approaching from different angles. If I were to explain my "wrong end of the river" statement, I'll bet you would agree. Quit confusing trout pressure with general fishing pressure. It is not the fishing pressure that is "moving" the fish. It is that which causes the cyclical change.

Pressure reduces population and willingness of the fish to strike. It does not make them move. I have no desire to go to the trouble but I'll bet some icthyologist can prove that.

If he went to class.

Now you also have to quit trying to compare the ditch to wild streams. Apples and orangutans.
_________________________

Constipation has ruined many a good day. Not as many as stupidity, though.

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#1185833 - 02/17/09 11:28 AM Re: Caney Fork [Re: bowriter]
Hillbilly Hunter
Killbilly
16 Point


Registered: 07/15/05
Posts: 17912
Loc: Branchville

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This 40 pounder came out of Caney Fork. I caught it on a 14 inch rainbow.......

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...they never call me by my name, just Hillbilly...


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#1185851 - 02/17/09 11:41 AM Re: Caney Fork [Re: Hillbilly Hunter]
JA1234
10 Point


Registered: 01/13/06
Posts: 3841
Loc: just a hair or two north of th...

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almost halfway to 10 gil1

nice fishy hill billy hunter


Edited by Joey A (02/17/09 11:43 AM)

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#1185914 - 02/17/09 12:22 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: JA1234]
gil1
12 Point


Registered: 04/06/07
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Well, we called you out of your sunshine lair, Tubs. I knew you couldn't resist. I'll have to agree with your whole second paragraph (if that's what you call that novel \:D ). I'm sure it's difficult to shock in a river under any circumstances, but I would imagine that low water daylight would be safer, easier, and more successful. They need to start over with a new baseline.

Yes, Tubs, I know we fly boys aren't allowed to call ourselves real fishermen, but I was asking for jerbaiter reports (like you gave) because the fly guides and avid Caney fly folks have not caught the numbers or size that they caught last year. I know we're not allowed to catch big fish or anything because we're too stupid to toss a jerkbait, but you can compare past years to this year if using the same method.

Yes, Tubs, I'm aware it's a put and take fishery. I and many more stupid fishing posers are trying to make it less of a put and take fishery. Why have size regs. at all if all you want is put and take? I'm allowed to define my own quality experience on the river just like you are. Some folks just want to catch one fish, some want to feed their families. And I'm allowed to want more, so I'm going to SCREAM it at you as long as you'll listen. \:D

You bash progressive thinking while I applaud it. Although I'm not big on Priuses either...

BW - I'm not trying to compare the ditch to wild streams - that logic doesn't interest me, but overall logic eludes Tubbs and sometimes you. Even you admitted that "pressure reduces population." All I'm saying is that stricter regulations, by definition, leads to the survival of more fish.

I'm saying that I understand that there is a segment of trout license holders that just want to take seven fish of any dern size home for dinner whether it's with a cast net or worm or fly. I don't have anything against those folks, but they are not any more important than I. It is my right to want what I want to to give me a quality fishing experience. As always, I will fight tooth and nail to get it, too.

If I get my way, they will have to change their thinking or go to the TN urban stocked waters to kill any fish they want. If they get their way, I will have to change my thinking or go to Arkansas or Kentucky or North Carolina (more delayed harvest) to get what I want. It's pretty simple, and I don't think less of anyone that has different fishing expectations than I have.

Woof. \:\)
_________________________
It is not the killing ...; it is the contest of skill and cunning. The true hunter counts his achievement in proportion to the effort involved and the fairness of the sport.

Dr. Saxton Pope

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#1185937 - 02/17/09 12:40 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: Hillbilly Hunter]
B.D.
8 Point


Registered: 03/24/08
Posts: 1484
Loc: Hendersonville TN

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 Originally Posted By: Hillbilly Hunter
This 40 pounder came out of Caney Fork. I caught it on a 14 inch rainbow.......


Yeah, I've caught fish in that league on skipjack and gizzards too. In fact, I'd go so far as to say the biggest advantange of trout over skipjack isn't that stripers like trout that much more. The biggest advantage is that trout are so much hardier than skipjack - they stay alive and lively in the bait tank longer, so you can spend more time fishing with good bait instead of running back to the dam to catch more.

I don't think an 8 pound brown would be your bait of choice though.

bd


Edited by Brian Dunigan (02/17/09 12:44 PM)

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#1185962 - 02/17/09 12:59 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: Tubakka]
B.D.
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Here's a question for you, Tubs - how many trout over 25" would you guess there are per mile in, say, the top 11 miles of river (roughly to the Smith Fork confluence)?

bd

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#1186026 - 02/17/09 01:20 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: B.D.]
bob
4 Point


Registered: 04/18/08
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I heard there was going to be a new fishing event in the Special Olympics for the mentally challenged. Using trout as bait was being discussed but it was later dismissed because the participants felt like it belittled their angling abilities.
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#1186137 - 02/17/09 01:57 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: bob]
Headhunter
10 Point


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Sorry Bob, using trout as live bait is just smart. I am glad they stock trout in the caney, it helps the Stripers grow.
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#1186171 - 02/17/09 02:12 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: Headhunter]
bob
4 Point


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I know, I was just kidding. I use Striper fillets as cut bait for big Blues. The 20 to 30 pounders are the best because the meat is just the right texture and oiliness for Ole Blue!. It beats everything else I've tried (yes even chicken breast) and best of all you can catch all of it you want FO FREE! If it freezer burns you gota throw it out though. They won't touch it if it's burnt... I bet I threw a ton of it away last year.
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#1186269 - 02/17/09 02:58 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: bob]
gil1
12 Point


Registered: 04/06/07
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No, using trout as live bait sux. Perfectly legal mind you, I just think it's a waste of the resource. There is a real estate/economics term, "highest and best use." IMO, the highest and best use of a trout is to be caught as many times as possible, preferably by me. \:D

I love catching stripers - but I would never kill a trout for the pleasure. Yes, I'm a salmonid snob - save a trout, kill a shad. ;\)
_________________________
It is not the killing ...; it is the contest of skill and cunning. The true hunter counts his achievement in proportion to the effort involved and the fairness of the sport.

Dr. Saxton Pope

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#1186284 - 02/17/09 03:14 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: bob]
ewc
8 Point


Registered: 02/01/02
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Tubs-

Your statements about shocking fish and assessing fish populations / fisheries management are idiotic.

You have no idea what your talking about.

If my goal were to shock numbers, I'd have numbers in 5 minutes. Fisheries biologists know where the fish are too. This approach (of collecting numbers of fish quickly) would only be used collecting brood fish, some age and growth, or tagging studies - not population estimates.

Finally, running an electro-fishing boat in current is just as productive / easy as it is in still waters. However, you would not know that because no one's ever pitched you the keys.

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#1186320 - 02/17/09 03:36 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: ewc]
bowriter
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But aint this what it is all about?

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#1186392 - 02/17/09 04:30 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: bowriter]
bigluresonly
6 Point


Registered: 04/09/08
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Thats an awesome striper HH.
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#1186869 - 02/17/09 08:46 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: bigluresonly]
Tubakka
6 Point


Registered: 12/19/07
Posts: 782
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EWC,
Shocking only goes to 8 feet under the optimum conditions, at least off a boat boom. I have been in my fair share of shocking boats, both before and after I was in college. It was HIGHLY effective on Crab Orchard lake, a eutrophic shallow and murky water lake with most depths being 5-8 feet. It was far LESS effective on Kinkaid Lake where the depths of such fish were condiserably deeper, the desired quarry in many cases, muskellunge, were not as affected by the current and could usually dart before being stunned or would make it far enough from being stunned that they would elude the net. Muskies had ot be netted in fact to be surveyed correctly, and only during the spawning season. Still somehow, they always kept placing their nets during the week of a large consistent cold front, and their numbers were dwindling from when they would plant them later when they first began.
The statement that weather and water conditions directly effect the relevancy of information taken by shocking in water where they do not exist at a point in time? Can't shock fish that aren't there. Look...I've been in the boat with biologists. Alot of them ARE anglers and know quite well what they are doing. Props. There are more than a few though, that do almost assanine things...placing nets along an island that has a 100 yard shallow flat running out from it before spilling into the abyss and wondering "Why that net doesn't produce?" for starters...when any angler worth their salt could tell you that the fish in that area aren't even aware that island exists because their shallow water was 100 yards out from it. The fisheries biologists who ARE astute anglers and knowledgeable in the area of interacting with fish on that level are credits to their field and what we need more of. There are then folks that for some odd reason choose the field who don't even know how to cast the rod, and then try to plug a fishery that can only be logically assessed from the standpoint of recreational angling into a math formula, and consider that gospel. I think you missed what I said. EVEN if shocking and formulas therein calculate accurately the number of fish in an given area...that DOES NOT MATTER> What matters, in the case of nearly ALL TN species AND FISHERIES is how many are being caught! It wouldn't matter how many trout were IN the Caney Fork, if they weren't being caught, they wouldnt generate revenue and they couldn't be stocked and then biologists would start losing their jobs. Does that make sense?
The only census that really ULTIMATELY matters inthese fisheries are what is CAUGHT. As for that, I remember reading the TU informational kiosk at the Happy Hollow ramp and while it provides good info on release and limits and the species themselves, it prints AS GOSPEL that according to SHOCKING there are only a couple fish right above 20" if that in a given mile of that river. Funny...my own creel has shown much higher than that, and judging by the nature of that...that I'm not even coming close to catching all the fish in a given section...there are FAR more than that in there. One SPECIFIC SPOT on the river produced a fish over 23.5" for me 5 trips consecutively, and lost a GIANT.

We used to fish behind the biologists up in Illinois, pulling bass off the channel breaklines on Newton Lake, a powerplant lake. One of them Illinois biologists had a tracking bug in one of them and we happened to pull it up, so he came over. We had a nice conversation and the kid finally said "What's out there? All my fish keep heading out there!"

...my dad and I both looked at each other and kinda grinned...

It was the creek channel, num-nuts. The fish were living in deep water and these guys still thought they were supposed to be crouched under some lily pad or brushpile in 5 feet of water. One time they got lucky, I hear, and spiked a school of bass that had come up to an 8 foot breakline by the boat dock and they flushed up like a covey of quail. The guys had never seen that, but of course, a good angler would know that those bass were schooled up most of the time and they just lucked out and hit the needle in the haystack when they moved up during optimal conditions [warm summer muggy day, almost always the best fishing].

Gil,
You never got it. I was never against flyfishing as a tactic. Does it have limitations that never get discussed? Yes. Does it get put on a pedestal? OOOOH yes. But any method in the right hands can be effective and catch fish. I just don't consider it the best way to target the largest trout under most circumstances. The only thing I have against it is...THE CULT. FLYFISHING ONLY! Where they turn a method into a MADNESS that pretty much says "You believe what we believe, do as we do, or you don't get to play..." and that sadly is what alot of waters are turning into or trying to. I don't mind people doing what they do, but the day they try to impose those methods and beliefs onto others is ridiculous. What they tried to do on the Clinch is a good show of that. I've told you what I think of the regs. If you want to throw something that imitates the larger prey of most of these predators on a big pixie stick, go for it. That's your deal. I fished regularly with a flyfishing GUIDE from East TN and then the saltwater fisheries of Port St. Jo....want a number and a ref? He had a 140 foot cast, and was just as good with a spey. But he would harvest fish more mercilessly than I did, and honestly was WAY more in your face that I'd ever have the gumption to be.

I really haven't fished that river that long, and I admit that. But it was always ASTOUNDING to me how things I had heard preached as GOSPEL were dispelled on almost a trip-by-trip basis. "Can't catch fish under two gens...and its dangerous" Well, knock that one off. "Can't catch trout under murky water..." Check...
"The Caney CAN'T GROW TROUT OVER 14 POUNDS BECAUSE OF THE LACK OF MACROINVERTEBRATES [FROM THE MOUTH OF A FLYFISHING GUIDE I KID YOU NOT, SPEAKING ON BROWN TROUT...this is your JOB, and you don't even know what your fish are EATING?!?! Know how many browns' stomach's I've seen? KNOW HOW MANY HELLGRAMITES OR INSECTS I FOUND IN FISH OVER 20"? NONE! ALL THREADFINS AND SCULPINS].

Look, you can't fault me for thinking what I think. It's based on nothing but first hand and second hand on the water experience. You want a good measure of just how many big fish are in that river? Go down to the gen cut and throw a big stick bait and watch how many 28" + fish turn on it. There is at least one brown down there I saw routinely that looked like a razorback boar [hence my using that term thereafter] that had to be 20 pounds. You think if muskies over 36" in a still water environment, a 12 pound fish were eluding shocking regularly, that a 20 pound brown in the current wouldn't have a problem getting away? Not saying it CAN'T happen, but not likely.

Wanna talk about biologists EWC? I think TN's programs are SUPERB, but Illinois? Trained biologists are stocking MUSKELLUNGE into lakes under 200 acres with a maximum depth of 12 feet, only in a few spots with no forage base other than bluegills and bass [not really forage, but they eat what's there...] with no interest in the species in that area, and risking the collapse of already established and desirable bass and panfish populations in an environment MADE for them, with NO stunted populations...I'd like to see how they're justifying that...what FORMULA they're using....

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#1186885 - 02/17/09 08:51 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: Tubakka]
Tubakka
6 Point


Registered: 12/19/07
Posts: 782
Loc: Tennessee

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Oh...

...HH, sick striper man. Love to get into one of those.

...Bowriter...amen brother. I hate that it comes to this all to often. I've tried to stay my mouth these past months. I don't think relationships with people are worth a few fish here or there...especially stocked ones. One way or the other...we all live, and we can all have fun out there. It's a shame all this gets stirred up. But this was absurd....in fact, I've been so jazzed about coming back to fish BECAUSE of all the big fish pics my friends have been sending. Don't know what you guys have been smokin'....


Gil....btw...once again, such an issue...if your fly guys were real anglers [multifaceted and versatile, not ingrained with a single tactic for fear of degrading their clout or character] they'd already KNOW the jerkbait/bait report because they'd have already used that tactic at their dispense to further strain the water and exercise all manner of control in the pursuit of their quarry. I'd use fly if I could...but I never saw it as really that beneficial to my angling at that point judging by how much time and money I'd have to invest in just learning HOW to do it. But if I already had the technical skill to employ it, I would have. If I'm not catching muskies on big jerkbaits and crankbaits, I switch over to bass jigs and pitch the brush. The issue all along has been the adamancy to NOT stray to "other methods". you never heard that...that attitude needs to stop, for all our sakes.

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#1186943 - 02/17/09 09:30 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: B.D.]
shorefisherman
6 Point


Registered: 04/07/08
Posts: 620
Loc: West SSiiide Putnam Co.

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 Originally Posted By: Brian Dunigan
The Caney is definitely slumping. Numbers of big fish are WAY down from what they were 6-8 months ago. I'm still seeing decent numbers of browns up to 17", but hits and "drive-bys" from the real trophy class fish have dwindled to a fraction of what they were before Oct./Nov.


I dont see any depletion of 20"+ browns in the caney, caught plenty of it this year. in fact most of it coulple weekends ago, now i dont know if im catchin the same fish that i caught and released before but their in there, just harder to catch.

now bd, unless your fishin the caney everyday, i dont know how your going to say the bigger browns are slumping from your one day outing of fishin observation.

and comparing from their last spawning run to your last outing...the bigger browns done their thing and moved, at least the smarter ones did, just like bw said the big fish are always on the move (for the most part) cuz they get real hungry!

cool pic bw.

nice rockfish hillbilly hunter, thats what im talkin about! i cant wait

i think im at 5 pgs \:D
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#1187034 - 02/17/09 10:42 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: shorefisherman]
gil1
12 Point


Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 6339
Loc: Nashville, TN

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I didn't read one single sentence of ole Tartar Sauce's diatribe (swear to God), but let me take a stab at it.

I am the best fisherman I know.

Flyfishing sucks. Flyfishermen suck. Trout Unlimited sux. If you don't fish the way I do, you suck. In fact, I am the only one that doesn't suck, except for Buck Perry, who knows everything there is to know about fishing. Bilogists and guides don't know anything about anything water-related. Buck Perry and I prove this often in water that folks say can't hold fish. We catch a fish on almost every cast. I swear.

Let me tell you a few stories about huge trout on the Caney just to pad my ego. Wait, let's see if I can throw some biology terms in there so you'll think I have a clue. Y'all are all so stupid you'll probably fall for it.

It's very important to be versatile in your fishing, as long as you never fly fish. Even though fly fishing is horrible and the worst possible way to catch 10 pound brown trout, it's fine if you do it, as long as you understand that the way you like to fish is all wrong.

Oh, and in the greatest irony of all, let me point out that all fishermen are snobs who don't do it my way. Please be mindful that my way is the only way, and try not to enjoy your fishing experience knowing that I am much better than you.

I see lots of huge fish on the Caney (mostly from Florida). I catch huge trout. I am the best fisherman I know. Maybe y'all didn't hear that the first seven thousand times I said it. I teach people how to catch fish and eat them, so it's okay that I tell everyone they suck. I'm not bragging, I'm just stating facts. So where's my applause?

I know more about musky fishing than anyone ever born. For some reason unknown to anyone, this completely irrelevant horn blowing is important for everyone to hear dozens of times in a thread about trout fishing on the Caney Fork River.

I have no idea how to start a new paragraph. \:D

Tubs

So how'd I do? ;\)

Perhaps we could get back on topic now.
_________________________
It is not the killing ...; it is the contest of skill and cunning. The true hunter counts his achievement in proportion to the effort involved and the fairness of the sport.

Dr. Saxton Pope

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#1187106 - 02/18/09 04:44 AM Re: Caney Fork [Re: gil1]
Chris Tripp
10 Point


Registered: 10/20/05
Posts: 3762
Loc: Brush Creek, TN

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I saw we put a fortified wall around the river and keep everyone out...lol that is unless you are a DeKalb or Smith county resident. Jk... all joking aside, what an arguement over a put and take fisherie. Divide and conquer.
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#1187139 - 02/18/09 05:51 AM Re: Caney Fork [Re: Chris Tripp]
bigluresonly
6 Point


Registered: 04/09/08
Posts: 777
Loc: Cookeville

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Holy crap Gil, Im rollin!
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#1187494 - 02/18/09 08:48 AM Re: Caney Fork [Re: bigluresonly]
Headhunter
10 Point


Registered: 11/14/00
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Loc: LaVergne, TN USA

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I am TUBS!! I am the greatest!! I talk to Buck Perry every few minutes through my crystal ball. If you do not listen to me, you will be forever lost in a world of people who cannot catch a fish. I know everything and if you do not believe me, just ask me.
Actually, j/k there Tubs, but good day, I am more full of "you know what" than most anyone, and I cannot even understand what you wrote other than you must be a fishing god of some kind. Hopefully I will see you on the Caney and if something bad happens to me you can perform a miracle and save me.
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#1188392 - 02/18/09 04:05 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: shorefisherman]
B.D.
8 Point


Registered: 03/24/08
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Loc: Hendersonville TN

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 Originally Posted By: shorefisherman

now bd, unless your fishin the caney everyday, i dont know how your going to say the bigger browns are slumping from your one day outing of fishin observation.


I'm on the Caney plenty, Shore. In fact, I was on the Caney not too awful long ago on a day when you drove your camo jon boat right between the boat I was in and the bank I was casting to, with no throttling back and no mind to the 60 feet of river behind me. But that's another topic.

This ain't my first season following big brown trout - I know about their movements. They're actually fairly predictable, not that different from hybrids and stripers, in a way. All due respect, I fish fly gear these days, but I figured out the jerkbait deal long before Tuba set foot on the Caney. To me, it's just not as enjoyable a way to fish.

Those fish aren't suddenly "just harder to catch" - there's not as many of them there.

bd

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#1188434 - 02/18/09 04:39 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: B.D.]
bigluresonly
6 Point


Registered: 04/09/08
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I don't believe that BD. I have never known shoreman to blow past another guy fishing from a boat without being waived on.
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#1188438 - 02/18/09 04:40 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: B.D.]
~RIK~
Button


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All these were caught over the past 3 months. We've been averaging 2 fish over 20" each trip with the largest measuring 24" and weighing 6lbs. We've seen several larger fish including one that made it all the way to the boat and broke off on the trolling motor.











Edited by ~RIK~ (02/18/09 07:41 PM)
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#1188465 - 02/18/09 04:59 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: ~RIK~]
smstone22
16 Point


Registered: 01/11/04
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Loc: Allardt, TN

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great fish RIK
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#1188503 - 02/18/09 05:34 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: smstone22]
go_okfishin
6 Point


Registered: 12/14/03
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I know of some big ones being caught too. Some people are just tired of fighting about it on the internet and keeping quiet.
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#1188595 - 02/18/09 06:05 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: B.D.]
shorefisherman
6 Point


Registered: 04/07/08
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Loc: West SSiiide Putnam Co.

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my badd...bd, didnt know that was you. i dont recall seeing your boat u must have been in some other boat, but i passed that boat u were in on a plane cuz i thought it was safe to do so on that slow wide stretch and that boat was a good size, i think i have a good river ettiquite just ask gil when i passed him with 4 ft wake behind me at 3 gens \:D


wait wait.......thats right..... if i remember right i didnt see any fly fishermans that day u were castin them big o jerkbaits......awwwman dont let your fellow flyanglers find out or u might get outcasted.....j/k \:\)

but bottom line they are still bunch in there and thats a fact.
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#1188656 - 02/18/09 06:33 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: B.D.]
shorefisherman
6 Point


Registered: 04/07/08
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Loc: West SSiiide Putnam Co.

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 Originally Posted By: Brian Dunigan
I fish fly gear these days, but I figured out the jerkbait deal long before Tuba set foot on the Caney. To me, it's just not as enjoyable a way to fish.


that just reminded me how i met tubz coulple years ago at the dam. while i was tossin a rapala, i lost the only lure on a fish and he was there doin the same thing and offered whatever he had in his tackle box, were friends ever since...but he is a charactor though \:D


but every fishermen are trophy hunters wether they admitted or not, i am ,so im going to choose the most efficient way for me to achieve that!
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#1188781 - 02/18/09 07:41 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: go_okfishin]
trealtree
16 Point


Registered: 09/29/04
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 Originally Posted By: gookfishin
I know of some big ones being caught too. Some people are just tired of fighting about it on the internet and keeping quiet.


It looks like you hit the nail on the head.. \:\)
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#1188790 - 02/18/09 07:45 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: B.D.]
~RIK~
Button


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#1192456 - 02/20/09 11:42 AM Re: Caney Fork [Re: gil1]
Tubakka
6 Point


Registered: 12/19/07
Posts: 782
Loc: Tennessee

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This is not what fishing is about...

...at all.

My posts may be long-winded and a bit abrasive, but they face issues that must be addressed. TU has done things in the past as a special interest group that while they are well intentioned and do GREAT things in the educational department and their programs to get the youth involved are excellent...they take very little consideration for those outside their school of thought historically. This can be said for ANY outdoor special interest group, period, so it's not some new sin, and I guess it is inherent in any such organization. Muskies Inc. only cares about muskies which is why they get put into bodies of waater they should, bass organizations try to keep such fish out even in waters where such a predator would AUGMENT their own fishery because all they care about is THEIR fish. That's just the nature of the beast. I never once said or implied I was the best. I still believe Buck Perry was THE pioneer of modern angling and can support indefinitely with information, and I doubt any of you have ever done the research yourself to ask the pros in the field, from JOe Bucher in muskies and walleyes, to the top BASS pros, to the Linders, who the real man is. Sorry that I had some special insight into the life of that man, but I only wanted to share what I knew. I never intended to parade that as some kind of trophy. Lord knows I am no Buck...but that knowledge has allowed me to be a much better angler than I ever could've been otherwise, and I feel like I owe it to him and his legacy to give him credit, and find it appalling that most in fishing don't even know who he is...and even worse that now after he passed away he's finally getting credit he should've had the time he was alive.

That's my only perspective on that, and will never apologize for that. I do apologize for rubbing anyone the wrong way on anything else. Go fish. Have fun. See you on the water.

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#1192689 - 02/20/09 02:12 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: Tubakka]
bowriter
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Registered: 08/31/02
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My posts may be long-winded and a bit abrasive, but they face issues that must be addressed. TU has done things in the past as a special interest group that while they are well intentioned and do GREAT things in the educational department and their programs to get the youth involved are excellent...they take very little consideration for those outside their school of thought historically.

This can be said for ANY outdoor special interest group, period, so it's not some new sin, and I guess it is inherent in any such organization. Muskies Inc. only cares about muskies which is why they get put into bodies of waater they should, bass organizations try to keep such fish out even in waters where such a predator would AUGMENT their own fishery because all they care about is THEIR fish. That's just the nature of the beast.

I never once said or implied I was the best. I still believe Buck Perry was THE pioneer of modern angling and can support indefinitely with information, and I doubt any of you have ever done the research yourself to ask the pros in the field, from JOe Bucher in muskies and walleyes, to the top BASS pros, to the Linders, who the real man is.

Sorry that I had some special insight into the life of that man, but I only wanted to share what I knew. I never intended to parade that as some kind of trophy. Lord knows I am no Buck...but that knowledge has allowed me to be a much better angler than I ever could've been otherwise, and I feel like I owe it to him and his legacy to give him credit, and find it appalling that most in fishing don't even know who he is...and even worse that now after he passed away he's finally getting credit he should've had the time he was alive.

Here read it after I broke it into paragraphs. \:\) But Tubs, Buck Perry was not the pioneer of modern angling. He wasn't even very good at it.
_________________________

Constipation has ruined many a good day. Not as many as stupidity, though.

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#1192713 - 02/20/09 02:33 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: bowriter]
gil1
12 Point


Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 6339
Loc: Nashville, TN

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Now we're talkin'! Tubs - you sound better already! \:D
_________________________
It is not the killing ...; it is the contest of skill and cunning. The true hunter counts his achievement in proportion to the effort involved and the fairness of the sport.

Dr. Saxton Pope

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#1192714 - 02/20/09 02:34 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: bowriter]
Tubakka
6 Point


Registered: 12/19/07
Posts: 782
Loc: Tennessee

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No bow he really wasn't...


...


Edited by Tubakka (02/20/09 02:41 PM)

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#1192720 - 02/20/09 02:41 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: Tubakka]
Tubakka
6 Point


Registered: 12/19/07
Posts: 782
Loc: Tennessee

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By the way gil, what's your fishing report/ I ain't seen any pics for a while? Pulled any nicfe ifsh this year?...at all?...
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#1192794 - 02/20/09 03:40 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: Tubakka]
gil1
12 Point


Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 6339
Loc: Nashville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: Tubakka
By the way gil, what's your fishing report/ I ain't seen any pics for a while? Pulled any nicfe ifsh this year?...at all?...


I'm sort of a fair weather fishing friend. I mostly deer, duck, and predator hunt when it's cold. When I do fish in winter, it's mostly for stripers and skipjack, but I have only gone once this winter.

As you know, I don't like flinging that fly on the Caney when the water's up. I enjoy wading in warmer weather, so I don't bother with winter on the Caney much. I went once about a month ago, and it was fairly slow for me and my buddy. The fish were slightly bigger than my average take, but the numbers were low, so I'd call it a fun but slow day. I think I got 7 or 8.

Now last spring and summer and into fall was the best year I've ever had on the Caney. I didn't catch any of your jerkbait lunkers, but both numbers and size were better than any year prior. I had a few days where I caught between 70-80 fish (mostly stockers), and that's excellent for me because I'm not above getting skunked on any river. Even with tiny midges, I was able to wrangle a few 20+ inchers in (mostly rainbows).

I don't enjoy streamer fishing, which is probably the most productive fly fishing method for big fish. It just bores me, so I don't do it that much. I'm sure you're shocked that I would choose the least productive strategy! \:D

I like to be able to watch something strike rather than just feel it. I love to watch anything annihilate a dry fly or popper. 90% of the time, though, I fish with a strike indicator and a nymph or two dropped below it because surface action isn't consistent. No matter what the fly boys tell you, it is just like bobber fishing. I guess I never got over watching a cork as a kid.

That's one of the things that bothers me about our differences. I realize that I can't catch as many big fish on jerkbaits as I can fly fishing, but that's fine with me. You don't seem to be able to understand that. If someone catches more and bigger fish than me or are a much better fisherman than I, that's fine by me to. I'm out to have fun my way no matter what everyone else is doing.

I'm the same way with hunting. Although I dig blowing stuff up with a rifle, I prefer to bowhunt. Needless to say, I miss out on plenty of opportunities of nice deer walking 50 yards in front of me because I can't shoot that far with my bow, but I don't give a crap at all. I get more satisfaction when I add a little challenge to the deal.

Just like in fishing, I'm still targeting the biggest and the best deer (or fish), but I target them with a method that is a little more challenging even if not the most effective.

BTW, I think fishing with jerkbaits or any other method is fun, too. I just enjoy other methods more these days. In fact, I used to jerk a lot when I was your age! \:D

You want pics? Here's the biggest fish I caught on my last trip. I have no idea how big it is, but even it's daddy probably wouldn't go 20 inches. I caught it with a fly I tied and even invented. Like all the rest, I watched it swim away for somebody else to enjoy catching some day. Some of your browns could have eaten it for breakfast. Had a ball nonetheless. \:\)

Rambling for nothing, but I figured I'd try to explain it again.

_________________________
It is not the killing ...; it is the contest of skill and cunning. The true hunter counts his achievement in proportion to the effort involved and the fairness of the sport.

Dr. Saxton Pope

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#1192806 - 02/20/09 03:50 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: gil1]
B.D.
8 Point


Registered: 03/24/08
Posts: 1484
Loc: Hendersonville TN

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Hey Gil, Sam Spade called.

He wants his hat back.

bd

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#1192820 - 02/20/09 04:02 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: B.D.]
gil1
12 Point


Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 6339
Loc: Nashville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: Brian Dunigan
Hey Gil, Sam Spade called.

He wants his hat back.

bd


\:D \:D \:D

I was sort of going for the Indiana Jones look, but I can live with Sam Spade. It's kind of cool in a loser sort of way. \:D
_________________________
It is not the killing ...; it is the contest of skill and cunning. The true hunter counts his achievement in proportion to the effort involved and the fairness of the sport.

Dr. Saxton Pope

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#1193292 - 02/20/09 09:59 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: gil1]
MFBAB
10 Point


Registered: 01/08/08
Posts: 2985
Loc: Memphis, TN

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No dog in this fight but I learned more from Bucks green book (from way back in 1965)than anything else I've ever read on fishing- particularly structure fishing, and I have a couple of large bookshelves full of fishing books and magazines, lol. If you like to fish and you haven't read it, you're cheating yourself, JMO.
_________________________
Missed it by that much....

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#1193816 - 02/21/09 02:31 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: gil1]
Tubakka
6 Point


Registered: 12/19/07
Posts: 782
Loc: Tennessee

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Gil,
Like I've always said what people do is cool until they start trying to use those given methods and thoughts to impose upon other people. Flyfishing only sections...regulations that seem to only accomodate those from that school of thought, vice versa. I have no problem with private streams having fly fishing sections if they want...but public water created mostly in part by the purchase of trout stamps that specifically allow the take of trout by the innumerable harvesters of these waters [when will we learn that harvest is not an inherently BAD thing?]
...the amount of trout going into our state's waters are relative directly to the sale of trout stamps. I doubt anyone would find a reason to fish our tailraces if the only folks buying trout stamps were those who practiced catch-and-release specifically.

Although, haha...I will admit. I'm on vacation up in Ohio right now visiting ma girl, and I happened to be scanning the channels and found the TU show on some obscure outdoor network. I honestly gave it a shot, the guide said "big browns" on the "little Tuckee river" or someplace out west. I'm no fool...some of those guys know what they're doing especially in those fisheries out west, so I gave it a shot. I saw their big one brought to net...16". 5...4....3...2...1....CSPAN.

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#1193884 - 02/21/09 03:54 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: bowriter]
mr.big
Non-Typical


Registered: 01/03/01
Posts: 28797
Loc: Copper Head Road

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 Originally Posted By: bowriter
 Originally Posted By: gil1
 Originally Posted By: bowriter
Uhhhh does anyone happen to remember me posting last summer that this would be a down year for the big trout?

I hate it when I am right.



I recall your saying that you couldn't kill enough fish to see the difference, that the Caney had enough big fish that you would never be able to dent the fishery. Correct me if I'm wrong. Or are you just saying we're on a downward side of the cyclical trend we always talk about?

Watch - this thread will be 10 pages. Life was getting boring anyway. \:\)


Yes, Gil, that is exactly what I am saying. Been seeing it for over 30 years. Every four to five years, you have a boomer like last year. Then you go back to normal Caney fishing. The fish are there, they just aren't in the same place. There are just not enough of those big fish caught and kept...or caught and released for that matter, to effect the fishing in the way we are discussing. And 95% of the fishermen are fishing the wrong end of the river.

It is very much like menopause.


caught a good brown below 70 stripe fishin the other day
_________________________
gun junky

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#1194017 - 02/21/09 06:25 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: Tubakka]
gil1
12 Point


Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 6339
Loc: Nashville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: Tubakka
Gil,
Like I've always said what people do is cool until they start trying to use those given methods and thoughts to impose upon other people. Flyfishing only sections...regulations that seem to only accomodate those from that school of thought, vice versa. I have no problem with private streams having fly fishing sections if they want...but public water created mostly in part by the purchase of trout stamps that specifically allow the take of trout by the innumerable harvesters of these waters [when will we learn that harvest is not an inherently BAD thing?]
...the amount of trout going into our state's waters are relative directly to the sale of trout stamps. I doubt anyone would find a reason to fish our tailraces if the only folks buying trout stamps were those who practiced catch-and-release specifically.

Thing is, though, Tubbs, you take a shot at fly fishermen every chance you get. I can't think of any incidences when anybody on any thread on this board were talking about telling anybody how they ought to fish (I mean except you). Why would I ever want a fly-only Caney Fork? Never once have I ever dissed another method. On the contrary, I've tried and enjoy most of them. It's like you conjured it somewhere.

 Originally Posted By: Tubakka
I doubt anyone would find a reason to fish our tailraces if the only folks buying trout stamps were those who practiced catch-and-release specifically.

Except the zillions of us who practice catch and release specifically. ;\) There are plenty of world class catch and release streams that are extremely popular. The reason they are world class? The reason they are so popular?...Because they are catch and release only.

But that topic is irrelevant - same deal as before. I can't recall anyone saying we should push for catch and release specifically. I realize that some folks want to eat their fish more than they want better fishing. Fine by me. Again, you conjured it out of thin air.

 Originally Posted By: Tubakka
Although, haha...I will admit. I'm on vacation up in Ohio right now visiting ma girl, and I happened to be scanning the channels and found the TU show on some obscure outdoor network. I honestly gave it a shot, the guide said "big browns" on the "little Tuckee river" or someplace out west. I'm no fool...some of those guys know what they're doing especially in those fisheries out west, so I gave it a shot. I saw their big one brought to net...16". 5...4....3...2...1....CSPAN.


Had no idea you liked girls! \:D

Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. I would have been glued to the tube because a 16 inch brown is a big brown to me. I get pretty excited about an 8 inch brown. Some of my greatest and proudest memories are of fish that were 6 inches or less.

IMO, you should take time to smell the roses. Enjoy whatever makes you tick. It doesn't have to be "you against the world" if you get out of the world's face. Dissing those who think differently than you (which is most everyone) will eventually take away from your own experience.

Yoda \:\)
_________________________
It is not the killing ...; it is the contest of skill and cunning. The true hunter counts his achievement in proportion to the effort involved and the fairness of the sport.

Dr. Saxton Pope

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#1194919 - 02/22/09 09:16 AM Re: Caney Fork [Re: gil1]
bowriter
Non-Typical


Registered: 08/31/02
Posts: 41931
Loc: Lebanon,TN USA

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I can honestly say, Gil out fished me one day last fall and he did it with spinning rod and a Rattletrap. Never once picked up his fly switch.

BTW-Gil, we are now going to remain open until Oct. instead of shutting down May 1.
_________________________

Constipation has ruined many a good day. Not as many as stupidity, though.

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#1194975 - 02/22/09 10:12 AM Re: Caney Fork [Re: bowriter]
Tubakka
6 Point


Registered: 12/19/07
Posts: 782
Loc: Tennessee

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Gil,
I didn't mean to misquote you. I just remembered you saying something...maybe not...a while back about wanting to impose a catch and release only on the Caney. I know specifically of the incident on the Clinch when they held a meeting with the public to see how the favor was towards a trophy-only zone [this was a day long subject in a fisheries management class] and the only people who showed up were the TU guys. Which is fine, but...a whole demographic of the river was completely unaccounted for...

...I was told by the instructor at tech that the limit lasted for a bout amonth, until vast outcry by the bait fishing demographic in the area, as there were apparently lots and lots of shore sights, just raised so much hell with the TWRA over being ticketed with a regulation they were never included in. The TU guy surely knew that these people used this high traffic area [it ended at some bridge...don't remember, sorry, never fished the Clinch...but apparently it is a really popular pull off area for shore fishermen], and they just didn't consider it. Part of that I can understand, the other part I can kind of see them doing as a tongue in cheek maneuver to get back at the guys "killing their fish".

Like I said, there are lots of great anglers out there...guys who can use any tackle imaginable, including fly, with fluidity, like a trumpet player who can lay down Mahler, then go to the club after the concert and read over "Green Dolphin" or "Giant Steps". Such a parallel is the image of a compleat musician and a complete angler. My only issue has been with people who think that fly is some kind of superior sophisticated method that somehow qualifies a 12" fish on that tackle over a 24-26" fish on "plebeian tackle".

By the way, rattletraps are GREAT trout baits. As I recall the Kentucky state record brown was caught on a 1 1/2 ounce rattletrap the guy was chucking for stripers.

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#1194986 - 02/22/09 10:20 AM Re: Caney Fork [Re: bowriter]
gil1
12 Point


Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 6339
Loc: Nashville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: bowriter
I can honestly say, Gil out fished me one day last fall and he did it with spinning rod and a Rattletrap. Never once picked up his fly switch.

BTW-Gil, we are now going to remain open until Oct. instead of shutting down May 1.


Yeah, I'm not so sure you weren't slackin' off a little just cause I was a bumbling idiot. \:D

Is Bama's bow season open in October, or is that just for fishing? That's great news nonetheless.
_________________________
It is not the killing ...; it is the contest of skill and cunning. The true hunter counts his achievement in proportion to the effort involved and the fairness of the sport.

Dr. Saxton Pope

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#1195001 - 02/22/09 10:38 AM Re: Caney Fork [Re: gil1]
gil1
12 Point


Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 6339
Loc: Nashville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: Tubakka
Gil,
I didn't mean to misquote you. I just remembered you saying something...maybe not...a while back about wanting to impose a catch and release only on the Caney.

Tubs - you probably just misunderstood me. I rattle off all the time about how I wish such and such water were catch and release only, especially for some river smallie populations that I have watched decline to nothing over the years.

But I'm practical enough to understand that that mentality won't fly for the Caney or any other public water. I'm really fine with catch and eat, but I'd like there to be a compromise on what you can take so my fisherman's greed can be satiated.

 Originally Posted By: Tubakka
My only issue has been with people who think that fly is some kind of superior sophisticated method that somehow qualifies a 12" fish on that tackle over a 24-26" fish on "plebeian tackle".

I have a problem with that. You just described yourself. You constantly belittle the fly guy because you say he's not versatile enough or smart enough to target big fish. If folks aren't following your lead on jerkbaits on the Caney, they're doing it all wrong. Maybe there is no right or wrong, just preferences across the board.

On the flip side, I've never seen a single post by anyone (fly, bait, jerkbait, or any other) that even had a hint of superiority or put down any other method as plebeian. Except you.

If a fly boy pissed on your jerkbaits as a child, that doesn't give you the right to diss all fly boys. I've met a few jerkbaiters that lived up to the "jerk" name, but there are bad apples in every group.

Methinks you have self awareness problems. Again, no charge. \:D

Yoda

P.S. You get extra credit for using the paragraph format. ;\)
_________________________
It is not the killing ...; it is the contest of skill and cunning. The true hunter counts his achievement in proportion to the effort involved and the fairness of the sport.

Dr. Saxton Pope

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#1195200 - 02/22/09 01:27 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: Tubakka]
B.D.
8 Point


Registered: 03/24/08
Posts: 1484
Loc: Hendersonville TN

Offline
 Originally Posted By: Tubakka
I know specifically of the incident on the Clinch when they held a meeting with the public to see how the favor was towards a trophy-only zone [this was a day long subject in a fisheries management class] and the only people who showed up were the TU guys. Which is fine, but...a whole demographic of the river was completely unaccounted for...

...I was told by the instructor at tech that the limit lasted for a bout amonth, until vast outcry by the bait fishing demographic in the area, as there were apparently lots and lots of shore sights, just raised so much hell with the TWRA over being ticketed with a regulation they were never included in.


"Never included in"??? Too bad they didn't care enough to show up for the meeting BEFORE the reg was passed, huh? It's not like TWRA kept the proposed reg secret from anybody but TU. Well, I guess they did make the announcement in written form, which could have been tough for some of the jerkbait guys...

Okay. I shouldn't have said that. I was just being mean.

Anyway, I know what you're trying to say. TWRA was a little slow to recognize that there are a bunch of people who will NEVER bother to offer input about a reg beforehand, but who will complain bitterly once it's passed. And the bait guys are probably heavily represented in that class, because they invest fewer resources in the way they fish and therefore are less proactive in protecting it.

Regardless, nobody's talking about "zones" right now for the Caney. They are impractical. I want to see a river-wide reg of 1 brown over 24" and a 16" to 20" slot on rainbows. Folks who want trout for the table could still keep 7 15" rainbows per person - that's a lot of meat. And it would maximize the number of big fish.

Are there some big fish even now? Sure. There are always some big fish. But there aren't anywhere near as many as there were this time last year.

Tubs, I know you like to look down your nose at folks who don't throw the same gear you do, but you've got to realize that there is a whole group of fly guys on the Caney who know how to target big fish. Guys who have caught multiple fish over 30" on a fly. Now, these guys are on the river constantly - you don't catch fish like that on a flyrod without putting your time in. Yet when they say the big fish numbers are being dragged down by harvest, you just assume they don't know what they're talking about because they don't throw gear.

Well, you're wrong.

I think pretty much everybody agrees that the last couple years have been some of the best ever on the Caney. It's not a coincidence - we've got better water quality and better regulations than ever, and it has paid off. I remember when the 18" limit on browns was proposed - some of the bait guys were complaining even then that it wouldn't make a difference. In fact, the same complaints bounced around when the trophy regs were proposed on the Cumberland in Kentucky. But surprise surprise, after a couple years with the regs in place, the quality of the fishery clearly improved.

You want more & bigger trout in the river? Simple - keep them in the river and out of the frying pan a little longer. It's not that complicated. I'm just looking for a way to build on the improvements.

bd


Edited by Brian Dunigan (02/22/09 01:36 PM)

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#1195269 - 02/22/09 02:28 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: B.D.]
Radar
Non-Typical


Registered: 08/19/01
Posts: 31209
Loc: Kansas City, Mo.

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I have never seen so many wanna-be fisheries biologists on one thread . I'm not sure I'd want to fish the Caney after reading this .And it's not because of the fishery , but the fishermen . Sad.
_________________________

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#1195282 - 02/22/09 02:42 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: Radar]
Trapper John
TnDeer Old Timer
16 Point


Registered: 03/13/99
Posts: 11829
Loc: La Vergne,TN/Decaturville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: Scott61
I have never seen so many wanna-be fisheries biologists on one thread . I'm not sure I'd want to fish the Caney after reading this .And it's not because of the fishery , but the fishermen . Sad.


I've never had anyone on the river give me a hard time. A few knowitalls but I just consider an encounter with them entertaining. Then again I don't keep brown trout. I get dinner from the 'bows.

If you ever have a problem just demand they pay you the cost of your license. If they do it allow them to continue.

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#1195307 - 02/22/09 03:25 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: Trapper John]
JA1234
10 Point


Registered: 01/13/06
Posts: 3841
Loc: just a hair or two north of th...

Offline
 Originally Posted By: Trapper John
 Originally Posted By: Scott61
I have never seen so many wanna-be fisheries biologists on one thread . I'm not sure I'd want to fish the Caney after reading this .And it's not because of the fishery , but the fishermen . Sad.


I've never had anyone on the river give me a hard time. A few knowitalls but I just consider an encounter with them entertaining. Then again I don't keep brown trout. I get dinner from the 'bows.

If you ever have a problem just demand they pay you the cost of your license. If they do it allow them to continue.



I never had anyone say a word about the way I was fishing on the caney...yet...but if they ever do I am going to use that...LOL

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#1195488 - 02/22/09 06:20 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: Radar]
B.D.
8 Point


Registered: 03/24/08
Posts: 1484
Loc: Hendersonville TN

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 Originally Posted By: Scott61
. I'm not sure I'd want to fish the Caney after reading this .


Good news! Nobody's making you! \:\)

bd

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#1197908 - 02/24/09 07:57 AM Re: Caney Fork [Re: B.D.]
gil1
12 Point


Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 6339
Loc: Nashville, TN

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...just cause I predicted this thread would go to ten pages, and it's only on nine. \:D
_________________________
It is not the killing ...; it is the contest of skill and cunning. The true hunter counts his achievement in proportion to the effort involved and the fairness of the sport.

Dr. Saxton Pope

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#1198052 - 02/24/09 09:05 AM Re: Caney Fork [Re: gil1]
jakeway
TnDeer Old Timer
10 Point


Registered: 11/22/99
Posts: 3590
Loc: Hendersonville, TN, USA

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The last few trips I think I caught more Brookies than either browns or rainbows. Last summer it was mostly browns. Those Brookies sure are aggressive.

I also took a trout home to eat a couple weeks ago. It was badly injured and bleeding, so I thought I'd see what all the fuss was about.

Frankly, if I was fishing for a meal, Bluegills and Bass are better eating. If I wanted to eat trout, I could get them at Publix.

Having said that, I've got no problem with people taking home trout to eat if they want, but it would be good to protect the trophy class fish. I worry about the people I've seen that can't (or won't) distinguish a brown trout from a rainbow, and eat the 10-16 inch browns.

Now, what other drivel can I write in here to help Gil get it to 10 pages?

Oh, how about a picture of the fish I took home to eat:

_________________________
It's not rocket surgery, for crying outside!

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#1198150 - 02/24/09 10:00 AM Re: Caney Fork [Re: jakeway]
gil1
12 Point


Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 6339
Loc: Nashville, TN

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Jake - I pretty much agree with all you said. Nice pic. of one of Tubbs' tartar sauce victims! \:D

I eat a couple on a camping trip to the South Holston every year. I have no problem with killing a 12-inch trout here and there. My buddies love grilling it up over the campfire, but I think my didymo-covered wading boot would taste better! I think I'm just bringing a steak next year.

Although there are a few that are still against the brookies even though they have thrived (and for what reason I have no clue), I think they are a welcome treat. Just a bonus.

Just wait...when our new TWRA top dawg takes office, there will be a push for more regulations by many people and organizations wanting to protect the resource, and I believe they (we) will get it.

I'm hoping for a 13-20 slot on rainbows and a one brown trout over 26 inches limit. I'm not sure what the fate of the brookies will be or even if they plant to keep stocking them (maybe the same regs. as the rainbows), but I heard a guy say he thought they might ask to protect the brookies until they reached 16 inches, which might just protect them all.

But here's the great news, all these regs. are being discussed as statewide tailwater regulations, not just for the Caney.

The Commisssion wanted the browns to grow to trophy size, and by their own definition in the TARP program, a brown isn't a trophy until it reaches 26 inches. Those of us that want to see some bigger fish have the protection of rainbows from 13-20 inches. The trucks will keep dumping stockers out to replenish all the fish the meat hunters want to eat. 7 rainbows up to 13 inches is a heck of a meal, and folks could still take home a trophy brown or rainbow if they wanted. I think everybody wins, but especially the fishery that is being rapidly depleted.

I don't know if it will go through or if it's just talk, but I think it would be awesome. It will take a coordinated effort from many different oraganizations and especially TWRA for it to get passed. Now is the time for better and more progressive management, though. If it passed, I think it would be just like Dale Hollow. A few folks would raise all heyall, but when the fishery improved dramatically, most would praise the changes.

...more drivel to get us to page 10... \:D
_________________________
It is not the killing ...; it is the contest of skill and cunning. The true hunter counts his achievement in proportion to the effort involved and the fairness of the sport.

Dr. Saxton Pope

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#1198331 - 02/24/09 11:53 AM Re: Caney Fork [Re: gil1]
Fordman
12 Point


Registered: 08/06/00
Posts: 5871
Loc: Rockvale,tn

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So Tubs when are you opening your guide business on the Caney and Collins rivers? There are some folks up around Mcminnville that just cant wait to see you again.
Anyone think this is 9 and maybe 10 pages of exposure the river might not need? What about the boat rental places? I am pushing for anyone who uses public water for personal gain to have to pay a fee ie Guide license and a per boat tax...


Edited by Fordman (02/24/09 11:54 AM)

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#1198412 - 02/24/09 12:29 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: Fordman]
gil1
12 Point


Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 6339
Loc: Nashville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: Fordman
Anyone think this is 9 and maybe 10 pages of exposure the river might not need? What about the boat rental places? I am pushing for anyone who uses public water for personal gain to have to pay a fee ie Guide license and a per boat tax...

I agree with the guiding fee and not just for the Caney. Unless there's an even better solution.

I agree with the exposure problem to an extent (I'm finally coming around on this subject ;\) ), but I believe it is mitigated in this case because the discussion is about angling pressure and depletion of resources. When all this regulation stuff comes up in a few months, you can bet I'll be trying to get as much exposure as possible. IMO, All sides should be out in the open so people can have an informed opinion.

But here's the bone I'm going to pick with you, my friend. You are a guide. You are on the Caney more than most. You have a lot at stake when it comes to this river. When it comes to regulations and such, you tuck and run. Where are you? Why are you not SCREAMING on this thread for positive change?

In my opinion, you don't have the right to complain about anything if you aren't willing to speak up for it. I say the same thing to JM, Jordan, Anderson, and anybody else whose opinion I respect concerning the rivers. We're all on the same team and friends, but I don't understand hiding from the issues except when you're in a safe little fly shop.

If your argument is that you can't afford to piss off prospective clients, please explain that to me. I mean, isn't catch and release mandatory on you boat on the Caney? How many clients do you get that demand to eat all their fish anyway?

I'm beating on you a little, but it's been bothering me, and I really want to know.
_________________________
It is not the killing ...; it is the contest of skill and cunning. The true hunter counts his achievement in proportion to the effort involved and the fairness of the sport.

Dr. Saxton Pope

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#1198453 - 02/24/09 12:53 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: gil1]
B.D.
8 Point


Registered: 03/24/08
Posts: 1484
Loc: Hendersonville TN

Offline
Gil, I'm going to have to dissent on the 13" to 20" slot on rainbows. That seems a little tight. I want to give more leeway to the folks who keep fish. In fact, every once in a while I'll keep two or three rainbows for the table, and I'll confess that a 14" or 15" trout is, in my opinion, the ideal "eater" size.

I don't see a lot of sense in putting a size limit on brookies until we've had a few years to see how they do in the tailwater. If they demonstrate the potential to get big, we can think about giving them a little more cover from harvest. If not, no sense in having restrictions for restrictions' sake.

Maybe we can start out with your proposal and compromise back to mine. \:\)

bd

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#1198659 - 02/24/09 02:29 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: B.D.]
Buzzard Breath
8 Point


Registered: 07/31/06
Posts: 1650
Loc: East

Offline
 Originally Posted By: Brian Dunigan
Gil, I'm going to have to dissent on the 13" to 20" slot on rainbows. That seems a little tight. I want to give more leeway to the folks who keep fish. In fact, every once in a while I'll keep two or three rainbows for the table, and I'll confess that a 14" or 15" trout is, in my opinion, the ideal "eater" size.

I'll try to help get this to page 10.

I have to agree with Brian. A trout that has lived in the river for a while and has been eating what trout are supposed to eat, tastes a whole lot better than one that has been eating dog food all its life.

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#1198770 - 02/24/09 03:31 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: Buzzard Breath]
gil1
12 Point


Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 6339
Loc: Nashville, TN

Offline
 Originally Posted By: buzz mcmanus
 Originally Posted By: Brian Dunigan
Gil, I'm going to have to dissent on the 13" to 20" slot on rainbows. That seems a little tight. I want to give more leeway to the folks who keep fish. In fact, every once in a while I'll keep two or three rainbows for the table, and I'll confess that a 14" or 15" trout is, in my opinion, the ideal "eater" size.

I'll try to help get this to page 10.

I have to agree with Brian. A trout that has lived in the river for a while and has been eating what trout are supposed to eat, tastes a whole lot better than one that has been eating dog food all its life.


I didn't know this. I guess I've never eaten one over 12. I don't care for trout from restaurants or Kroger either, so it's moot for me.

I would say this - for me, I'd be willing to buy a trout at Kroger and catch another in the river rather than save that money and not be able to catch that fish. For me, the 14 or 15 inch fish is perfect for catching, not eating. I would never in a million years kill one that size unless I hooked it too deep or something. It is way to valuable as a game fish to me. It should be caught many times over for the sheer joy of the sport. JMO.
_________________________
It is not the killing ...; it is the contest of skill and cunning. The true hunter counts his achievement in proportion to the effort involved and the fairness of the sport.

Dr. Saxton Pope

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#1198773 - 02/24/09 03:32 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: gil1]
gil1
12 Point


Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 6339
Loc: Nashville, TN

Offline
Hot dawg! We made it to 10! \:D
_________________________
It is not the killing ...; it is the contest of skill and cunning. The true hunter counts his achievement in proportion to the effort involved and the fairness of the sport.

Dr. Saxton Pope

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#1198784 - 02/24/09 03:41 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: gil1]
Buzzard Breath
8 Point


Registered: 07/31/06
Posts: 1650
Loc: East

Offline
 Originally Posted By: gil1
Hot dawg! We made it to 10! \:D

Yea, I thought my post was going to do it. Apparently, I should have added a couple more sentences.

The trout at Kroger and the grocery stores are all farm raised, fed dog food, or "trout chow" as the bag reads. Eat yourself some real wild fish sometime. There's no comparison in taste.

I personally release 90% or better of the trout I catch. My wife is quite the opposite. If it's legal, it's in the cooler. I enjoy my time fishing with her more than trying to change her.

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#1198803 - 02/24/09 03:57 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: Buzzard Breath]
gil1
12 Point


Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 6339
Loc: Nashville, TN

Offline
 Originally Posted By: buzz mcmanus
 Originally Posted By: gil1
Hot dawg! We made it to 10! \:D

Yea, I thought my post was going to do it. Apparently, I should have added a couple more sentences.

The trout at Kroger and the grocery stores are all farm raised, fed dog food, or "trout chow" as the bag reads. Eat yourself some real wild fish sometime. There's no comparison in taste.

I personally release 90% or better of the trout I catch. My wife is quite the opposite. If it's legal, it's in the cooler. I enjoy my time fishing with her more than trying to change her.


I get it. I really do. But it wouldn't matter what it tasted like to me. If it were a fat steak, I would release it. If it had a $20 bill in it, I'd release it. My point is that my recreational happiness is worth more to me than my stomach or money. Not only that, but I can have both if I eat my steak after I go fishing. You can't have both if you eat the fish.

I know that some folks fish for supper and nothing else. Whether it's with a cast net or dynamite or rod, it's about the food, not the fishing. For me, it's purely about the fishing. For most it's somehwere in-between. I also know that I can't teach someone to enjoy the fishing more than the food. I'm fine with their preference, just stating mine.

The problem lies in the fact that those who prefer food over fishing negatively impact my preference for good fishing over food. My preference for fishing over food positively impacts those that prefer food over fishing.
_________________________
It is not the killing ...; it is the contest of skill and cunning. The true hunter counts his achievement in proportion to the effort involved and the fairness of the sport.

Dr. Saxton Pope

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#1198815 - 02/24/09 04:07 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: gil1]
bowriter
Non-Typical


Registered: 08/31/02
Posts: 41931
Loc: Lebanon,TN USA

Offline
Wen it is dem crappy or bream perch or sawgers, I is fishing fo de table, me. Same wid dem crawperch and soft hided crabs. En I'll take a 1-pound Kentucky spotted bass every time, me.

But I aint never throwed but one cheeseburger back. It like to made me puke. Tasted a lot like trout perch.

That's what I'm talking about, me!



BTW- Those are bream fillets.
_________________________

Constipation has ruined many a good day. Not as many as stupidity, though.

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#1198833 - 02/24/09 04:20 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: bowriter]
MFBAB
10 Point


Registered: 01/08/08
Posts: 2985
Loc: Memphis, TN

Offline
You think that river is crowded now, I'd hate to see the ramp if they did have $20's in 'em!
_________________________
Missed it by that much....

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#1198876 - 02/24/09 04:42 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: gil1]
B.D.
8 Point


Registered: 03/24/08
Posts: 1484
Loc: Hendersonville TN

Offline
 Originally Posted By: gil1

I get it. I really do. But it wouldn't matter what it tasted like to me. If it were a fat steak, I would release it. If it had a $20 bill in it, I'd release it. My point is that my recreational happiness is worth more to me than my stomach or money. Not only that, but I can have both if I eat my steak after I go fishing. You can't have both if you eat the fish.


We look at it slightly differently. It's not so much "food over fishing" or vice versa. Eating a fish every once in a while is PART of the fishing experience. I don't do it every time - not anywhere close. But every few trips, I put a couple trout in the cooler. Not a bunch - 2 or 3 decent sized trout is plenty for a meal. I like to pretend I'm a "gourmet chef" from time to time, and there's nothing like an almond-crusted, wild-caught rainbow trout with a nice glass of wine to top off an evening after a day on the water.

Kroger just ain't the same - if you could buy venison at Kroger, would you put down your bow and only carry a camera to your deer stand?

 Quote:
The problem lies in the fact that those who prefer food over fishing negatively impact my preference for good fishing over food.


You aren't saying you don't catch 15" trout every time you go, are you? They're just so routine to me...



bd

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#1198892 - 02/24/09 04:54 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: gil1]
Fordman
12 Point


Registered: 08/06/00
Posts: 5871
Loc: Rockvale,tn

Offline
 Originally Posted By: gil1
 Originally Posted By: Fordman
Anyone think this is 9 and maybe 10 pages of exposure the river might not need? What about the boat rental places? I am pushing for anyone who uses public water for personal gain to have to pay a fee ie Guide license and a per boat tax...

I agree with the guiding fee and not just for the Caney. Unless there's an even better solution.

I agree with the exposure problem to an extent (I'm finally coming around on this subject ;\) ), but I believe it is mitigated in this case because the discussion is about angling pressure and depletion of resources. When all this regulation stuff comes up in a few months, you can bet I'll be trying to get as much exposure as possible. IMO, All sides should be out in the open so people can have an informed opinion.

But here's the bone I'm going to pick with you, my friend. You are a guide. You are on the Caney more than most. You have a lot at stake when it comes to this river. When it comes to regulations and such, you tuck and run. Where are you? Why are you not SCREAMING on this thread for positive change?

In my opinion, you don't have the right to complain about anything if you aren't willing to speak up for it. I say the same thing to JM, Jordan, Anderson, and anybody else whose opinion I respect concerning the rivers. We're all on the same team and friends, but I don't understand hiding from the issues except when you're in a safe little fly shop.

If your argument is that you can't afford to piss off prospective clients, please explain that to me. I mean, isn't catch and release mandatory on you boat on the Caney? How many clients do you get that demand to eat all their fish anyway?

I'm beating on you a little, but it's been bothering me, and I really want to know.


Ok I was not going to even bother responding but... you have called me out so why not.
First and foremost I did not do ONE single day on the caney fork as a guide in 2008. I choose to stay on other rivers because I have friends, who are all hiding in the safety of a little fly shop, who depend on that river to make a living so its a respect thing Gil1. They send me a lot of warm water guide trips and I send every client who wants to fish the caney to the guy who is hiding in his little flyshop. Can you tell that I think that was a chicken shat thing for you to say yet?
Second I have attended more commision meeting in two years than you have in the past five so lets not go there. Were you at the meeting about tele check? Have you taken the time to get to know the commisioners? Tell me when is the meeting that the commision wants to hear from the people about the caney? I am sure you know when that is.
Now back on track. I log more days fishing than most folks and here is my little two cents worth on the caney. First no regulations are going to be worth the paper they get printed on until the stocking/enforcement issues are fixed. There is no stocking in the lower end of the river and nearly ZERO enforcement. Now anyone thats been involved in this issue knows that the enforcment above the smith county line is outstanding but below that line is needs some serious help. When the new commission get on board you can bet I will be at those meetings and I will be the one pushing for statewide guides license. In fact I have the numbers from 4 states that require them and they are very convincing. Its my opinion that we should be more concerned with the increased non angling traffic. Why are YOU not screaming to regulate the amount of rental boats that can be on the river? I have read no less than three times where you made references to the amount of non angling traffic. Dont throw stones my friend when you live in a glass house which we all do.
All that said yes my boat is catch and release only and if a client wants to keep fish then I am not the guide they need. Now I am going to hide in the safety of that little flyshop and talk about what should be done to protect the river. Have a nice day!


Edited by Fordman (02/24/09 04:59 PM)

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#1198968 - 02/24/09 05:59 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: B.D.]
madMax
4 Point


Registered: 04/09/08
Posts: 130
Loc: Middle TN

Offline
Can we get 20 pages? Anyone?

I must agree with those that point out the irony of this situation - which is the correlation between river pressure and internet exposure...

The same people who guide, make websites, and post threads and reports about the infamous Caney Fork are the same ppl that cry about how crowded "their" river is. Is it not common sense that the more exposure the river gets, especially on the internet, the more crowded it will get? This means...

-more "Meathunters"
-more Recreational boaters, canoes, and kayakers
-more Fly flingin' hippy "trouthuggers"
-and JUST MORE PEOPLE PERIOD!

In the 1990s as people like Bowriter and others have pointed out this was the same river...30' trout were still being caught. It still had cycles of good years and bad years. The only difference is not many people knew about it. Now we are in a new era.. An era where flaming 20 page threads pop up on numerous Tennessee Fishing websites every 6 months. Posts that act as advertisements, that draw in more people and more people and more people than the year before. People from all walks of life. People with different agendas and opinions...

There has to be a road in the middle - and I can guarantee threads like this won't get us there. Im not saying I know what that route is but I know this isnt it. I think we can all agree the infamous Caney Fork sure isnt "infamous" anymore....

20 pages here we come!

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#1199019 - 02/24/09 06:25 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: B.D.]
gil1
12 Point


Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 6339
Loc: Nashville, TN

Offline
 Originally Posted By: Brian Dunigan
We look at it slightly differently. It's not so much "food over fishing" or vice versa. Eating a fish every once in a while is PART of the fishing experience.
bd

I totally get that. That's fine by me. It's just not part of MY fishing experience.

 Originally Posted By: Brian Dunigan
there's nothing like an almond-crusted, wild-caught rainbow trout with a nice glass of wine to top off an evening after a day on the water.

bd


See, to me, there's nothing like catching a fish. Killing them hurts the fishing. Obviously, I'm very selfish about fishing.


 Originally Posted By: Brian Dunigan

Kroger just ain't the same - if you could buy venison at Kroger, would you put down your bow and only carry a camera to your deer stand?


Man, that's a good question. Except aiming and putting a clean kill on the animal is part of the fun of hunting for me (that didn't sound very good, but it's true). Killing a fish isn't part of the fun for me. Letting it go and catching it again is the fun part.

Now the real question is, if you could shoot a deer with a bullet that just put it to sleep for a while but didn't kill it, would you? I know it's crazy, but the answer is yes. The hunt is more important to me than the meat and the kill, so I'd do it unless it were a case of the property needing that type of management.
_________________________
It is not the killing ...; it is the contest of skill and cunning. The true hunter counts his achievement in proportion to the effort involved and the fairness of the sport.

Dr. Saxton Pope

Top
#1199086 - 02/24/09 06:51 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: Fordman]
gil1
12 Point


Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 6339
Loc: Nashville, TN

Offline
 Originally Posted By: Fordman
Ok I was not going to even bother responding but... you have called me out so why not.
First and foremost I did not do ONE single day on the caney fork as a guide in 2008. I choose to stay on other rivers because I have friends, who are all hiding in the safety of a little fly shop, who depend on that river to make a living so its a respect thing Gil1. They send me a lot of warm water guide trips and I send every client who wants to fish the caney to the guy who is hiding in his little flyshop. Can you tell that I think that was a chicken shat thing for you to say yet?


Please explain. I love those guys and tell them to their faces that they are hiding. I consider them good friends. How in the world is telling the forum and your friends the truth chicken shat? I have no idea why y'all are hiding. I swear to God I have no idea what you mean. Respect for what? You can't say how you feel because you have friends (as I do) that work at a fly shop? How would anything you say affect your friends' fly shop? Seriously, I'm missing the whole deal I think. Does this have anything to do with changing your username back?

 Originally Posted By: Fordman
Second I have attended more commision meeting in two years than you have in the past five so lets not go there. Were you at the meeting about tele check? Have you taken the time to get to know the commisioners? Tell me when is the meeting that the commision wants to hear from the people about the caney? I am sure you know when that is.


You have no idea how much respect I have for that. So if you care enough to stand up for these issues in front of the Commisssion, why not here? I just still don't understand why you (or anyone - not singling you out) can talk about some things but won't talk about other things I know you believe are important on this forum - see above. Just explain the connection, and I'll shut up.

 Originally Posted By: Fordman
Why are YOU not screaming to regulate the amount of rental boats that can be on the river? I have read no less than three times where you made references to the amount of non angling traffic. Dont throw stones my friend when you live in a glass house which we all do.


If that were the topic, I would gladly talk about it. But until lately, I haven't really known how I felt. In other words, yes, I think traffic sux, but I didn't have a clue what to do about it. I'm still not sure I do, but I've heard ideas of guide fees, etc. that sound good to me. I just didn't have any solutions to scream about. Heck, I didn't mean to not talk about it - just didn't know what to do about it.

 Originally Posted By: Fordman
Now back on track. I log more days fishing than most folks and here is my little two cents worth on the caney. First no regulations are going to be worth the paper they get printed on until the stocking/enforcement issues are fixed. There is no stocking in the lower end of the river and nearly ZERO enforcement. Now anyone thats been involved in this issue knows that the enforcment above the smith county line is outstanding but below that line is needs some serious help. When the new commission get on board you can bet I will be at those meetings and I will be the one pushing for statewide guides license. In fact I have the numbers from 4 states that require them and they are very convincing. Its my opinion that we should be more concerned with the increased non angling traffic.

All that said yes my boat is catch and release only and if a client wants to keep fish then I am not the guide they need. Now I am going to hide in the safety of that little flyshop and talk about what should be done to protect the river. Have a nice day!


Hey, man, the above is all I'm asking for. Even though we love to disagree with each other, I respect your opinion because you know a bunch more about the issues than I do. Do I really have to piss you off before you talk about this stuff? I like pissing you off anyway, so that's fine with me. \:D Well, you're out of the closet now. There's no turning back. I expect to hear more on these issues. We need all the help we can get.

Dern! We're going to go over 10 pages!
_________________________
It is not the killing ...; it is the contest of skill and cunning. The true hunter counts his achievement in proportion to the effort involved and the fairness of the sport.

Dr. Saxton Pope

Top
#1199099 - 02/24/09 06:55 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: madMax]
gil1
12 Point


Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 6339
Loc: Nashville, TN

Offline
 Originally Posted By: MaxD
Can we get 20 pages? Anyone?

I must agree with those that point out the irony of this situation - which is the correlation between river pressure and internet exposure...

The same people who guide, make websites, and post threads and reports about the infamous Caney Fork are the same ppl that cry about how crowded "their" river is. Is it not common sense that the more exposure the river gets, especially on the internet, the more crowded it will get? This means...

-more "Meathunters"
-more Recreational boaters, canoes, and kayakers
-more Fly flingin' hippy "trouthuggers"
-and JUST MORE PEOPLE PERIOD!

In the 1990s as people like Bowriter and others have pointed out this was the same river...30' trout were still being caught. It still had cycles of good years and bad years. The only difference is not many people knew about it. Now we are in a new era.. An era where flaming 20 page threads pop up on numerous Tennessee Fishing websites every 6 months. Posts that act as advertisements, that draw in more people and more people and more people than the year before. People from all walks of life. People with different agendas and opinions...

There has to be a road in the middle - and I can guarantee threads like this won't get us there. Im not saying I know what that route is but I know this isnt it. I think we can all agree the infamous Caney Fork sure isnt "infamous" anymore....

20 pages here we come!


Great post. I agree, but I'm not so sure this thread is as bad as the "look at what I caught" threads. I'm certainly guilty of those, although they're often about what I didn't catch.

I think these issues are important enough to discuss. I don't know, maybe it does hurt the resource more than it helps it. Maybe.
_________________________
It is not the killing ...; it is the contest of skill and cunning. The true hunter counts his achievement in proportion to the effort involved and the fairness of the sport.

Dr. Saxton Pope

Top
#1200556 - 02/25/09 12:37 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: gil1]
bowriter
Non-Typical


Registered: 08/31/02
Posts: 41931
Loc: Lebanon,TN USA

Offline
"I must agree with those that point out the irony of this situation - which is the correlation between river pressure and internet exposure..."

This just jumped out at me. Internet exposure is a minor factor in the upsurge of fishing pressure on the Caney. I started it 25 years ago when I started writing articles for national publications about the trout fishing. Then H. Lea Lawrence jumped in and it went from there.

Yes, some of the folks on that river read about it online. Most did not.

It is 95% the fault of the fancy schmazy fly flingers who made it fashinable to wear $600 worth of clothes and smoke pipes and say thing like, "Honor the fish...Bow to the fish." And stuff like "Is it spelled Wulf or Wolf and is it Lea or Lee?"

Then they say things like, "@#$%^&*some no good@#$%^& stole my car." And his buddy says, "@#$%^ your car, my boat was behind it."
_________________________

Constipation has ruined many a good day. Not as many as stupidity, though.

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#1200603 - 02/25/09 01:14 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: bowriter]
bob
4 Point


Registered: 04/18/08
Posts: 116
Loc: tn

Offline
I was conceived on the Caney back when there wasnít even a Dam there and have spent so much time fishing it that now Iím part man part Trout. My name is Buffalo Bob, the Buffalo is for Buffalo Valley where I spent my youth learning the ways of the wily stocker truck Trout. I was like a ninja when the stocking truck appeared. I would blend in with the stocking tube and pluck unsuspecting freshly stocked trout out like picking daises. I was also the one who made the Trophy the section and am responsible for pretty much everything good or bad that has ever happened on that river. Including the time I saved Uncle Thadbakerís prized Black Angus calf from being eaten alive by Vultures after it got stuck in the mud on the riverbank. Itís ashamed what some of the fishermen before me did to that poor helpless calfÖ

Just ask anyone about ole Caney Fork Buffalo Bob and youíll soon find out Iím the most unknown know it all on that river.

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#1200611 - 02/25/09 01:18 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: bob]
bowriter
Non-Typical


Registered: 08/31/02
Posts: 41931
Loc: Lebanon,TN USA

Offline
Bob! Son!!! Your Mother was just lovely back then. But why did you have to let that motel go to he11. Buddy Mason would have bought it.
_________________________

Constipation has ruined many a good day. Not as many as stupidity, though.

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#1200623 - 02/25/09 01:23 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: gil1]
B.D.
8 Point


Registered: 03/24/08
Posts: 1484
Loc: Hendersonville TN

Offline
 Originally Posted By: gil1

See, to me, there's nothing like catching a fish. Killing them hurts the fishing. Obviously, I'm very selfish about fishing.


I am going to disagree that killing a few fish automatically hurts the fishing. There is, after all, a limited carrying capacity to the river. TWRA puts what, an average of about 115,000 rainbows and 30,000 browns a year in the river? Now, obviously a lot of those disappear without ever seeing a fisherman. Some of those get eaten by herons, ospreys, minks, stripers, walleye, and other trout; many die of natural causes; and a few wander off into the Cumberland where it gets too warm (I caught a rainbow in Cordell Hull tailrace last spring). But whatever way you slice it, that's a lot of trout going into the river. If we had NO harvest, we'd have to cut back the stocking rate, or eventually we'd have a lot of overcrowded, skinny trout.

Now, there have to be limits. There is enough pressure on the river that without any regulation at all, it would get all but wiped out. But clearly there is a sustainable level of harvest where you don't hurt the overall numbers, because the fish going in = the fish going out.

At that point the only debate is over which fish are harvested. Everybody pretty much agrees that the trout in the Caney grow around 4" a year. Thus, a 15" rainbow has been there around a year and a half on average, depending on how big he was when he went in.

I don't have a problem harvesting that fish. Everything I've seen tells me we have plenty of fish holding over a year or two, so there is a large cohort of fish to replace that rainbow if he's harvested.

A 24" brown, on the other hand, is different. I would rather limit harvest of those fish. Browns go in as fingerlings at about 6", so it takes nearly 5 years to grow a fish to that size, and there are fewer browns going in to begin with. When one that size goes out, there are a lot fewer fish in the next tier down to replace it.

bd

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#1200641 - 02/25/09 01:42 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: B.D.]
bob
4 Point


Registered: 04/18/08
Posts: 116
Loc: tn

Offline
Pop,, that you. Where the HE-double tooth picks have you been!
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#1200664 - 02/25/09 02:04 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: B.D.]
gil1
12 Point


Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 6339
Loc: Nashville, TN

Offline
It's all a gray area with no real answers, just preferences and opinions. I wasn't saying your keeping a couple dozen 14-inchers a year makes a big dent. I say it makes a ding. Just like the ospreys and otters and everything else. I also say that it's a culmination of little dings that makes a dent. Like I said, I've dinged a little in my time, too. Although I've never kept a Caney trout, and I've caught many thousands by now.

Now, you stated that there have to be limits and the only debate is over which fish are to be harvested. Except your forgetting about those that believe in catch and release. So you save money and don't stock as many fish. The fishing's world class, and I don't give a crap about eating them, so that's absolutely perfect.

Yeah, I know. Impractical. Too many people want to kill their fish for that to ever work unless it's a private stream. Still, I completely disagree that there are enough 15-inch trout in the river. I'm sort of kidding, but there could never be enough.

I can't imagine sacrificing the catching of a 15-inch trout just to eat it. Never in a zillion years would I harvest a 15-incher on the Caney. That's just too big of a sacrifice just to feed hunger. If I were hungry, I would feel differently, but I am lucky that I can afford to eat at McD's if I am hungry. Again, I'm selfishly into fishing.

That's my own code. I don't have any misgivings toward you or anyone else for filling your bellies. I'd just rather catch than eat.
_________________________
It is not the killing ...; it is the contest of skill and cunning. The true hunter counts his achievement in proportion to the effort involved and the fairness of the sport.

Dr. Saxton Pope

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#1200741 - 02/25/09 03:14 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: bob]
bowriter
Non-Typical


Registered: 08/31/02
Posts: 41931
Loc: Lebanon,TN USA

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 Originally Posted By: bob
Pop,, that you. Where the HE-double tooth picks have you been!


I've been devising an advertising campaign for Dick Sampson to sell shine out of his store. Odell kept us froze out for years.
_________________________

Constipation has ruined many a good day. Not as many as stupidity, though.

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#1200917 - 02/25/09 05:14 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: B.D.]
madMax
4 Point


Registered: 04/09/08
Posts: 130
Loc: Middle TN

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 Originally Posted By: gil1
I can't imagine sacrificing the catching of a 15-inch trout just to eat it. Never in a zillion years would I harvest a 15-incher on the Caney.


So there you have two ends of the opinionated spectrum. You have someone like Gil on one end, and people like Tubs on the other. Some fisherman are strictly C & R - others are catch and eat eat eat. The other 90% of us fall somewhere in between. There-in lies the real question...

 Originally Posted By: Brian Dunigan
At that point the only debate is over which fish are harvested.


Great question! The answer? I say we just let Bowriter decide. Since he started this mess 25 years ago its about time he cleans it all up! I say you and Buffalo Bob get together with the new TWRA commissioner and settle this dispute once and for all....

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#1200967 - 02/25/09 05:57 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: B.D.]
shorefisherman
6 Point


Registered: 04/07/08
Posts: 620
Loc: West SSiiide Putnam Co.

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\:D \:D .................. \:D
_________________________
Down in a hollor....son

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#1201205 - 02/25/09 07:55 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: B.D.]
go_okfishin
6 Point


Registered: 12/14/03
Posts: 694
Loc: Bellevue

Offline
What if every trout caught was guaranteed to die, would you still fish? Kind of like duck hunting there ain't no either or. They are dead or they are not.
_________________________
always lookin

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#1201758 - 02/26/09 07:19 AM Re: Caney Fork [Re: go_okfishin]
bowriter
Non-Typical


Registered: 08/31/02
Posts: 41931
Loc: Lebanon,TN USA

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Not being a farmer, I have never harvested a fish. I have caught and eaten a lot of them. I don't eat trout. Don't like them so unless someone wants a mess. I throw them all back.

But my philosophy is quite simple. When it is legal, I will keep and eat any dam fish I want. Everybody else can do what they like. I shoot small bucks and I eat 12 inch fish. I make no appolgies to anyone about it.
_________________________

Constipation has ruined many a good day. Not as many as stupidity, though.

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#1202068 - 02/26/09 09:42 AM Re: Caney Fork [Re: bowriter]
gil1
12 Point


Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 6339
Loc: Nashville, TN

Offline
 Originally Posted By: bowriter
Not being a farmer, I have never harvested a fish. I have caught and eaten a lot of them. I don't eat trout. Don't like them so unless someone wants a mess. I throw them all back.

But my philosophy is quite simple. When it is legal, I will keep and eat any dam fish I want. Everybody else can do what they like. I shoot small bucks and I eat 12 inch fish. I make no appolgies to anyone about it.


To be clear about my position, I don't hink anyone should apologize for puttin' the Dr. Kevorkian on anything legally. I kill the hell out of lots of stuff. I just pick my spots, I guess.
_________________________
It is not the killing ...; it is the contest of skill and cunning. The true hunter counts his achievement in proportion to the effort involved and the fairness of the sport.

Dr. Saxton Pope

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#1202510 - 02/26/09 02:29 PM Re: Caney Fork [Re: gil1]
bowriter
Non-Typical


Registered: 08/31/02
Posts: 41931
Loc: Lebanon,TN USA

Offline
No, Gil, I knew that. I was just pointing out something that has now completely slipped my mind. I think it was about fishing with your fly-flinging fiance.

BTW- We are going to run WO until Oct. I may have to work this summer.
_________________________

Constipation has ruined many a good day. Not as many as stupidity, though.

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