#1159613 - 02/02/09 11:33 AM
Re: '07 v '08 County Harvest Comparison
[Re: Radar]
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BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 59548
Loc: Nashville, TN
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My observations dropped way off during the two weeks of bow season , compared to the peak in Mz. season .
How was opening week of gun?
My daylight older-buck trail-cam pictures peaked around Nov. 5-8 and then stayed relatively high until about Nov. 18. However, after the 18th, they dropped to virtually nothing through the rest of the season (with the exception of a secondary peak around Dec. 5-8--a month after the November peak).
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan
"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James
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#1159620 - 02/02/09 11:37 AM
Re: '07 v '08 County Harvest Comparison
[Re: BSK]
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JCDEERMAN
14 Point
Registered: 07/19/08
Posts: 7635
Loc: NASHVILLE, TN
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Thats the exact thing that I saw BSK. It was the 1st muzzleloader. I saw bucks chasing all over the place. I still-hunted one of our trails that is about a mile long. I never went more than 100 yards without seeing a deer. (Bucks chasing other bucks out of fields, makin scrapes, horning trees, scrapes made down the road I was on made within 10 minutes then spooking him trying to catch up to him, seeing 2 face to face a field, but too dark for me to really see them.) The woods were electrified....I dont know how else to put it. You could feel it in the air. Before then, we would see a couple deer here and there. And after that time period, they vanished.
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#1161375 - 02/03/09 06:58 AM
Re: '07 v '08 County Harvest Comparison
[Re: bowriter]
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BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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Registered: 03/11/99
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Loc: Nashville, TN
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Excellent points bowriter. What is harvested tells us almost nothing about what deer are in the population before and after deer season. And unfortunately, no easy way exists for producing that information.
At least the TWRA is using cutting-edge thermal imaging technology in an attempt to acquire some of that information. Now if they only had more imagers and more trained personnel to use them.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan
"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James
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#1161445 - 02/03/09 07:47 AM
Re: '07 v '08 County Harvest Comparison
[Re: BSK]
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woodchuckc
8 Point
Registered: 02/09/05
Posts: 1599
Loc: Hickman County, TN
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Hickman was tough hunting for us too this year. Usual slam dunk stands produced a sighting or two. Late in the year some deer were seen bunched up as usual, but up until then they were tough to find! In the Hickman, Humphreys, Dickson, Houston, Perry and Stewart Counties area, the most common pattern I'm hearing was of the rut kicking in hard about mid-way through the 1st MZ season, running through most of the two weeks of bow season following 1st MZ, but being completely over and dead by the opening of 1st gun season. Deer sightings were then few and far between until early January, when doe groups were bunched up again.
That exactly matches my observations in SW Hickman Co.
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#1161466 - 02/03/09 07:57 AM
Re: '07 v '08 County Harvest Comparison
[Re: BigGameGuy]
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megalomaniac
10 Point
Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 4887
Loc: Mississippi
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Great compilation, BSK! Thanks for posting this! Wow , the doe harvest really dropped , while more hunters apparently chose to shoot a buck instead . Could this be in large part due to a significant increase in the early November muzzleloader buck limit, going from 1 to 3 in Unit A, and from 2 to 3 in Unit L? Could it be many hunters decided to kill a buck INSTEAD of a doe, since killing the 1st buck to come along (in Unit A) would not end their muzzleloader "buck" hunting? OR... Could this be in large part due to a significant increase in the buck harvest capabilities of hunters because of the extra weekend of muzzleloader hunting during the prime of the rut? Afterall 5,000+ extra bucks fell that weekend compared to the year before. Right there is your difference. Think about it. Just like Bryan said, we're concerned about it, especially in Unit L where we can't afford to see significant drops in doe harvest, but reacting to ONE data point is not usually a wise idea. Also, when trends change, try to think of all potential causes of the change and don't try to pigeon-hole one of the changes that you disagreed with. If I was to make an educated guess, I'd say it was easliy a combination of the two changes that resulted in a drop of doe harvest. Whether or not the drop in doe harvest will be prolonged will only be known after at least another year or two of data is collected. Keep in mind, most regulation changes involve a "novelty" effect where you see a spike in harvest because something is new, then things settle back down. Wouldn't it be great if we gave all Tennessee hunters extra harvest capability without having the least bit of impact on the herd? That's the justification for many of our changes.
I'd be very careful about assuming the extra two days of ML accounts for the increase in deer harvest. If anything, ML season this year showed the potential for negative effects of a buck limit increase from 2 to 3 on the doe harvest. As you already know, here's the numbers from 2007 to 2008...
2007 ML harvest statewide... 13,941 bucks 13,738 does
2008 ML harvest statewide... 21,570 bucks 13,779 does
Which is around a 40% increase in buck harvest, yet only a 1-2% increase in doe harvest.
If the 2 to 3 buck limit increase had no effect on the sex ratios of what hunters killed, one would have expected the doe harvest to have increased by another 40% this year over last.
Again, it's my supposition that most hunters have freezer space and desire to clean (or pay for processing) only 2 or 3 deer at the most. Since they can now fill their freezer with 2 bucks and still save the last tag for a trophy, that's what happening. Which is fine, there are plenty of bucks out there. BUT, from a herd manager's prospective, the reduction in does harvested that comes with that harvest philosophy ends up being more detrimental to the herd in the long run.
It'll be interesting to see what happens next year...but I strongly suspect the harvest percentages won't be very different.
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#1161506 - 02/03/09 08:17 AM
Re: '07 v '08 County Harvest Comparison
[Re: megalomaniac]
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Winchester
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Registered: 12/05/03
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Loc: TN
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I agree Meg, I think we may even see a small decrease again next year in harvest #'s. Taking all the negative factors into consideration, and the limits actually going up instead of down, and I think we may have a small downward spiral for a couple more years like the last 2. It may not be a terrible thing, especially for some areas, but I think the decisions will run their course.
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#1161641 - 02/03/09 09:27 AM
Re: '07 v '08 County Harvest Comparison
[Re: megalomaniac]
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8 POINTS OR BETTER
10 Point
Registered: 08/15/07
Posts: 3869
Loc: Hardin, Co.
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Again, it's my supposition that most hunters have freezer space and desire to clean (or pay for processing) only 2 or 3 deer at the most. Since they can now fill their freezer with 2 bucks and still save the last tag for a trophy, that's what happening. Which is fine, there are plenty of bucks out there. BUT, from a herd manager's prospective, the reduction in does harvested that comes with that harvest philosophy ends up being more detrimental to the herd in the long run.
It'll be interesting to see what happens next year...but I strongly suspect the harvest percentages won't be very different.
I agree Meg.. I don't think we will ever see a 50%-50% buck to doe kill ratio with a 3 buck any weapon limit. Most hunters will kill a couple bucks to fill their freezer.
Edited by 8 POINTS OR BETTER (02/03/09 09:28 AM)
_________________________
" Some localities are willing to work for their sport, and have plenty. Others are willing merely to take what comes easy, and have little or none." - Aldo Leopold
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#1162087 - 02/03/09 01:40 PM
Re: '07 v '08 County Harvest Comparison
[Re: 8 POINTS OR BETTER]
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bowriter
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Registered: 08/31/02
Posts: 40303
Loc: Lebanon,TN USA
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It is probably a fact that the only way to achieve a true 50:50 kill ratio is to make it does only. I think that might come close.
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