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#1108621 - 01/01/09 01:39 PM problems with bow
Anonymous TnDeer Old Timer
Unregistered



I have a Fred Bear Vapor 300 28" draw 70lbs draw wieght with whrisker biscuit. 26" Easton 2312 xx78 super slam with 75grain mini blasters.My bow shoots around 290 fps i have shoot five deers with this setup all less than 30yds without a pass thru granted one of those shots i hit the front shoulder.Out of those five i lost three of them and the one i lost this year was a nice eight and that was final straw. I have the whole thing on video and it makes me sick everytime i watch it i make a great shot right behind the shoulder at 25 yds away but no pass thru bled off and on and never found him cause lack of blood. No doubt he went off and die and it makes me sick. Want some help guys what do i need to change? Is my arrow and boardhead to light of a setup or what.Any advice is greatly appreciated.
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#1108646 - 01/01/09 02:03 PM Re: problems with bow [Re: ]
Radar
Non-Typical


Registered: 08/19/01
Posts: 31209
Loc: Kansas City, Mo.

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I would switch to longer carbons and a heavier , 100 gr. fixed blade broadhead such as a Slick trick or G5 Striker . I like an arrow from 400-450 gr. for hunting , because it carries more momentum . The additional broadhead weight and better penetrating ability of a fixed blade , along with a thinner carbon shaft should help .
One more thing to consider and is a major factor in penetration is obtaining perfect arrow flight through good tuning .
An arrow that is not flying straight as it enters the deer will squander energy upon impact . The energy must be directly behind the broadhead , because any side to side forces will reduce penetration .
Arrow placement is key to a short bloodtrail. You should strive to take out both lungs . Even if you don't get full penetration , you should be able to recover any deer hit behind the shoulder , given that your broadheads are sharp .
It's hard to place blame on your equipment , unless you work on your tracking skills as well .
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#1108681 - 01/01/09 02:46 PM Re: problems with bow [Re: Radar]
richmanbarbeque
16 Point


Registered: 07/17/03
Posts: 12778
Loc: Middle, Tn

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Great post Radar, I can't add a thing. I would like to see the video. Any way you can post it?
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#1108760 - 01/01/09 04:09 PM Re: problems with bow [Re: ]
BIGORANGE
8 Point


Registered: 11/29/08
Posts: 1859
Loc: Memphis, TN

Offline
 Originally Posted By: grant913
I have a Fred Bear Vapor 300 28" draw 70lbs draw wieght with whrisker biscuit. 26" Easton 2312 xx78 super slam with 75grain mini blasters.My bow shoots around 290 fps i have shoot five deers with this setup all less than 30yds without a pass thru granted one of those shots i hit the front shoulder.Out of those five i lost three of them and the one i lost this year was a nice eight and that was final straw. I have the whole thing on video and it makes me sick everytime i watch it i make a great shot right behind the shoulder at 25 yds away but no pass thru bled off and on and never found him cause lack of blood. No doubt he went off and die and it makes me sick. Want some help guys what do i need to change? Is my arrow and boardhead to light of a setup or what.Any advice is greatly appreciated.


I have to agree with RADAR. I would switch to a carbon arrow and get your arrow weight including broadhead up to 400-450 grains. I personally shoot a carbon express terminator xp select which is 10.6 grains per inch with my 100 grain broadhead it puts my arrow weight in the 420's. With your 28 inch draw you could also increase your arrow length from 26 to 27". If you change to an arrow that is around 10.6 gpi it will get you to the 400+ arrow weight and you will have plenty of kinetic energy. RADAR named two outstanding broadheads in the Slick Trick and G5 Striker. Hope this helps!! \:\)
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#1108771 - 01/01/09 04:21 PM Re: problems with bow [Re: BIGORANGE]
stik
"Popcorn"
18 Point


Registered: 03/12/99
Posts: 21014
Loc: lenoir city,tn

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it wasn't the broadhead. i have shot the 75 gr. miniblasters for 11 yrs. with nothing but spectacular results.
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#1108803 - 01/01/09 04:56 PM Re: problems with bow [Re: stik]
Anonymous TnDeer Old Timer
Unregistered



If any of you guys can tell me how to my video on here i got some get footage not just the eight but others.My video camera is a hifi 8mm. How do i get it on my computer? MY shot placement on all the deers except the one was deadcenter and about two inch behind the shoulder.I have shot my arrows thru paper and seems to tuned well.Well its time for a new string any suggestion there too.

Edited by grant913 (01/01/09 04:57 PM)

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#1108847 - 01/01/09 05:26 PM Re: problems with bow [Re: ]
Radar
Non-Typical


Registered: 08/19/01
Posts: 31209
Loc: Kansas City, Mo.

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 Originally Posted By: grant913
If any of you guys can tell me how to my video on here i got some get footage not just the eight but others.My video camera is a hifi 8mm. How do i get it on my computer? MY shot placement on all the deers except the one was deadcenter and about two inch behind the shoulder.I have shot my arrows thru paper and seems to tuned well.Well its time for a new string any suggestion there too.


If your shot placement was perfect in the lungs , you should have recovered those deer , even without an exit hole .
I'd have to see your setup before I would place all of the blame on the equipment . Good tracking skills are a must in bowhunting . I have lost deer over the years , but I will never blame my equipment . I just hit them too high in the shoulder or just below the spine . Poor shot placement .
Taking close shots from a steep angle was my fault , and I'm not going to blame the broadhead or my equipment for lack of penetration .
I'm not trying to be hard on you , but you are accountable for your equipment , shot selection , and tracking skills .
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#1109624 - 01/02/09 08:16 AM Re: problems with bow [Re: stik]
POSSUM HUNTER
16 Point


Registered: 09/11/07
Posts: 10212
Loc: Over yonder

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 Originally Posted By: stik
it wasn't the broadhead. i have shot the 75 gr. miniblasters for 11 yrs. with nothing but spectacular results.


ditto on the head i shoot 75 grain ultimate steel heads and never lost one with them

i also shoot a light arrow
total wieght with head being 357 grains
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#1110849 - 01/03/09 08:18 AM Re: problems with bow [Re: POSSUM HUNTER]
Toxophilite Phil
TnDeer Old Timer
8 Point


Registered: 01/24/00
Posts: 1877
Loc: Rogersville,Tn USA

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Shot placement is everything. Along with woodsmanship. If the shots were perfect as you say then you should have meat in the freezer. Tracking is one of the toughest jobs in hunting. You can make a fake blood solution and have some buddies lay some trails for you to practice on. Get in on every blood trail you can. Learn what hurt deer do. It is a hard lesson to learn but it does make you a better hunter in the long run.
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#1110912 - 01/03/09 09:12 AM Re: problems with bow [Re: Toxophilite Phil]
TheAirMan
16 Point


Registered: 06/18/01
Posts: 10626
Loc: Moss, Tennessee

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How long are you waiting after the shot before you go after them?
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#1110932 - 01/03/09 09:35 AM Re: problems with bow [Re: Toxophilite Phil]
Radar
Non-Typical


Registered: 08/19/01
Posts: 31209
Loc: Kansas City, Mo.

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 Originally Posted By: Toxophilite Phil
Shot placement is everything. Along with woodsmanship. If the shots were perfect as you say then you should have meat in the freezer. Tracking is one of the toughest jobs in hunting. You can make a fake blood solution and have some buddies lay some trails for you to practice on. Get in on every blood trail you can. Learn what hurt deer do. It is a hard lesson to learn but it does make you a better hunter in the long run.


I agree , Phil .One thing I have experienced over the years , is that even on a good lung hit , there are times when good blood doesn't start until after the first 40-50 yards . They can cover allot of ground with each leap when they run off .
On high hits without an exit , they may cover 100 yards without leaving much blood at all because the blood has to travel farther down a deer's side to reach the ground . That is when you may find more blood on the sides of saplings or weeds , 2-3' off the ground .No two blood trails are the same .

We are accountable for choosing , and maintaining our equipment , becoming proficient with that equipment and every aspect of the hunt , including blood trailing and recovery . Blaming our equipment for everything never resolves the underlying problem , taking responsibility for the outcome . ;\)
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#1110936 - 01/03/09 09:39 AM Re: problems with bow [Re: TheAirMan]
Unicam Administrator
Grumpaw
16 Point


Registered: 12/13/00
Posts: 19369
Loc: Dallas, GA. & Cookeville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: TheAirMan
How long are you waiting after the shot before you go after them?


My thought as well. The equipment sounds right and if its tuned and the shot placement correct the only way I see you could lose the deer is to go after it to soon. I have shot a number of deer over the years and many of them were not pass through shots, but recovery of a good shot was never difficult.
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#1111141 - 01/03/09 02:35 PM Re: problems with bow [Re: Unicam]
Anonymous TnDeer Old Timer
Unregistered



I understand and great info. I always wait about an hour if the deer goes out of my sight or i wait even longer all depends on my shot. Dont you guys think at 30 yds or less i should get a pass thru? Not blaming equipment just wondering if its my choice of equipment?
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#1111252 - 01/03/09 04:25 PM Re: problems with bow [Re: ]
Radar
Non-Typical


Registered: 08/19/01
Posts: 31209
Loc: Kansas City, Mo.

Offline
 Originally Posted By: grant913
I understand and great info. I always wait about an hour if the deer goes out of my sight or i wait even longer all depends on my shot. Dont you guys think at 30 yds or less i should get a pass thru? Not blaming equipment just wondering if its my choice of equipment?


Not always . Penetration depends on many factors . Kinetic energy , broadhead design , momentum , and perfect arrow flight are key when considering equipment options , but shot angle and placement are the primary , controllable factors when your equipment is good . When you strike bone , it will impede penetration .
If you have lost that many deer , you are doing something wrong . I suspect your shot placement isn't as perfect as you are thinking , because of shot angles .
I think you are hitting the shoulder .
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#1111356 - 01/03/09 05:54 PM Re: problems with bow [Re: Radar]
Unicam Administrator
Grumpaw
16 Point


Registered: 12/13/00
Posts: 19369
Loc: Dallas, GA. & Cookeville, TN

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Yep, Radar I think you got it pegged. Thate a pretty high loss rate. I thought I had a perfect shot on a doe earlier this year, ended up the shot was high, forward and of course the arrow was in the other shoulder so no exit wound and a high angle on the shot side made the deer extremely hard to track.
_________________________
"Gun Free Zones are for VICTIMS!"

John 15:13

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#1127204 - 01/13/09 03:40 PM Re: problems with bow [Re: Unicam]
TN Larry
10 Point


Registered: 09/17/03
Posts: 2965
Loc: Baxter, Tennessee

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The video is in the QDM forum. It is hard to tell due to the speed but the deer should be dead even though the shot may have been a little too far back. It looks like there was penetration up to the fletching. There may not have been much blood but the deer should have been dead b/w 100 and 300 yards depending on if he was pushed and if the shot was forward enough to get lungs. JMO
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#1129986 - 01/15/09 07:24 AM Re: problems with bow [Re: TN Larry]
xtremeoutdoors
4 Point


Registered: 01/14/09
Posts: 106
Loc: greeneville TN

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Isnt the mini blasters a expandable if so any expandable will take more energy upon impact and will sometimes hinder penetration. like Radar said its very important to have it properly setup and in my opinion the paper tune is just a starting point for tuning the bow. If you have all the specifics we can calculate your KE and that will tell us a little more about the penetration. The KE is greater on some bows than others even though you can achieve certian speeds i shoot a 300 grain arrow from my setup and ive only had 1 deer that wasnt a pass through and that is because i spined him. Ive had pass throughs at 45 yards. So im like the others i dont think its your equipments fault also the blades need to be unused and very sharp too. Oh yea if your still needing a new string im offering that service and a complete tune up as well just let me know.
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