I bought both of these new and just don't ever use these guns. Both of them have 18 and a half inch barrels the 450 is ported it has a tuba 7 Mueller scope on it and the 45 70 as a 3 by 12 BSA there are five boxes 4570 ammo with a 3-piece die set and Lee case length gauge. The 450 is RCBS size 3 piece set with a case holder in case length gauge also. Everything 650 for each one. Memphis area
