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Smokeless muzzleloaders ?

In, outs, dos and don'ts of smokeless front stuffers.

Smokeless muzzleloaders ?

Postby NChunt1 » Wed Jan 15, 2020 3:55 pm

Okay guys I've been doing some looking and I've seen some pretty good-looking smokeless muzzleloaders I really don't know anything about them so I'm looking for someone to school me on smokeless verse stander muzzleloaders and the benefits of going smokeless. I currently have Remington Genesis and it has served me well but I'm always looking to upgrade equipment so I was thinking about checking out smokeless muzzleloaders for next season. Thanks

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Re: Smokeless muzzleloaders ?

Postby lapuafan » Wed Jan 15, 2020 6:00 pm

NChunt1 wrote:Okay guys I've been doing some looking and I've seen some pretty good-looking smokeless muzzleloaders I really don't know anything about them so I'm looking for someone to school me on smokeless verse stander muzzleloaders and the benefits of going smokeless. I currently have Remington Genesis and it has served me well but I'm always looking to upgrade equipment so I was thinking about checking out smokeless muzzleloaders for next season. Thanks

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Well in smokeless it's like anything else. What can your pocketbook stand. What is your main purpose of it ? How far are you wanting shoot ? So many diffrent routes.
I started out with savage smokeless, then upgraded to a gunwerks, then had a 45 built, and in process of having a new 45 built for long range hunting and shooting.

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Re: Smokeless muzzleloaders ?

Postby fairchaser » Wed Jan 15, 2020 6:17 pm

Smokeless is the only way to fly. The only drawback is the price to get one. You will need access to a good scale and you can put away all your 50 caliber stuff. Personally I bought one already set up with a tested load. That made things much simpler and easier and probably cheaper because people are always upgrading. Peruse the smokeless sites for second hand conversions and you will probably get a deal versus converting your own.
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Re: Smokeless muzzleloaders ?

Postby NChunt1 » Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:57 pm

I was looking at converting a cva scout 45-70 I heard that was a good way to start. I will be hunting but would like to have a 300 yard gun. What kind of advantages will a smokeless have over a regular muzzleloader

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Re: Smokeless muzzleloaders ?

Postby Jcalder » Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:02 pm

NChunt1 wrote:I was looking at converting a cva scout 45-70 I heard that was a good way to start. I will be hunting but would like to have a 300 yard gun. What kind of advantages will a smokeless have over a regular muzzleloader

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biggest advantage is not having to clean the stinking thing after you shoot it. That by itself is worth the extra cost. They also shoot pretty good and consistent shot to shot. Should push a 275 grain bullet 2550 FPS or so sabotless. I’m thinking a sabot load was around 2650, 200gr sst


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Re: Smokeless muzzleloaders ?

Postby ADR » Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:43 pm

NChunt1 wrote:I was looking at converting a cva scout 45-70 I heard that was a good way to start. I will be hunting but would like to have a 300 yard gun. What kind of advantages will a smokeless have over a regular muzzleloader

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I have the cva apex conversion and love it. Like previously stated you will need a powder scale and maybe a die to shoot sabotless. The sabot is the weak link so IMO sabotless is a no brainer. Accuracy wise mine will shoot 300 yards but from 200 to 300 yards there is considerable bullet drop.

Advantages: not having to clean, bullet velocity, not having to clean, accuracy, not having to clean, longer range, not having to clean, no sabot (if you do choose), and oh yeh, not having to clean.
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Re: Smokeless muzzleloaders ?

Postby fairchaser » Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:57 pm

ADR wrote:
NChunt1 wrote:I was looking at converting a cva scout 45-70 I heard that was a good way to start. I will be hunting but would like to have a 300 yard gun. What kind of advantages will a smokeless have over a regular muzzleloader

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I have the cva apex conversion and love it. Like previously stated you will need a powder scale and maybe a die to shoot sabotless. The sabot is the weak link so IMO sabotless is a no brainer. Accuracy wise mine will shoot 300 yards but from 200 to 300 yards there is considerable bullet drop.

Advantages: not having to clean, bullet velocity, not having to clean, accuracy, not having to clean, longer range, not having to clean, no sabot (if you do choose), and oh yeh, not having to clean.


I have the same conversion ADR and agree with everything you said. I will add that mine at least is not a 300 yard gun. It will certainly kill a deer at that range but not accurate enough. It will shoot MOA at 100 to 150 yards but at 300 the group really opens up. Some of the better custom guns may do better, but as some have said the sabot is the weak link.
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Re: Smokeless muzzleloaders ?

Postby NChunt1 » Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:30 am

Great thanks for the info.what type of powder and bullets are you shooting out of your conversions. And also what company did you guys use to do it

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Re: Smokeless muzzleloaders ?

Postby NChunt1 » Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:46 am

Another question I had was about the primer system and what equipment I will need to get started. I already have a powder scale for blackhorn 209 and my achery and arrow set ups.

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Re: Smokeless muzzleloaders ?

Postby ADR » Thu Jan 16, 2020 9:16 am

NChunt1 wrote:Great thanks for the info.what type of powder and bullets are you shooting out of your conversions. And also what company did you guys use to do it

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60 gr H4198 with Barnes flat base 290 TEZ. I have also shot the 300 gr fury star tipped but they have to be sized. I was blessed the Barnes fit my barrel perfectly without sizing.

Luke at arrowhead did my conversion with a 209 plug. Just remember that there are now many different ignition sources now and what may be a safe load in a 209 gun may not be in another gun with a different ignition like DI
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Re: Smokeless muzzleloaders ?

Postby Bow Hunter » Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:27 pm

Go to Hanks message board and ask away, there are some guys there that are way ahead of the game and will help you out. And Jeff Hankins can build you one heck of a gun.
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Re: Smokeless muzzleloaders ?

Postby Roost 1 » Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:37 pm

My Apex conversion is MOA @ 300yds with 195gr Barnes & HLB sabot, 60gr H4198. I would recommend N120 if I was starting from scratch.
Let me add another big advantage is that you will not have to wait for the smoke to
clear to see where your deer went.
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Re: Smokeless muzzleloaders ?

Postby mike243 » Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:46 am

Nothing wrong with the savage 50 cal imo, killed 2 deer 260 something steps a few years ago, most of my shooting has been 50-120y and some times closer. they kick a bit also. I will upgrade to a 45 cal barrel and maybe shoot sabotless, more choices not using a sabots but you have to size stuff a lot of times, A reloading press is probably needed if you plan or want to shoot most bullets. Living in eTn and the spread of CWD may decrease my wants on deer hunting guns as it expands. fishing and small game may push to the top, not far from 60 and have slowed down some and priority's change :(
I'm Just a Spike/button Hunter, I will shoot a Trophy if 1 comes by but will settle for what the Lord provides/trophy's are in the eyes of the hunter not their neighbors
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