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Loose Powder vs Pellets

TN Muzzleloader Talk

Re: Loose Powder vs Pellets

Postby ROVERBOY » Sun Oct 20, 2019 3:32 pm

I've never cared for the pellets either. There more expensive and harder to ignite in my opinion.
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Re: Loose Powder vs Pellets

Postby GMB54 » Sun Oct 20, 2019 5:22 pm

Pyrodex pellets are actually easier to ignite. The "igniter end" of the pellet is very similar to black powder. Lower ignition temp than loose Pyro or T7. Pyrodex though is just as corrosive or more so than real black. I would rather use Swiss than any sub other than BH209. Its a wonderful powder if you can get it. More powerful than Pyro and very very close to Triple7. Rock solid dependable too.
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Re: Loose Powder vs Pellets

Postby Wobblyshot1 » Sun Oct 20, 2019 5:30 pm

Keep preaching...with Tennessee's impending ML season at hand the shelves at Murfreesboro Sportsman's Warehouse this Sunday afternoon devoid of pyrodex and triple 7...looks like they had plenty of BH209. FYI a fella standing there ask where he might find real black powder and l told him of the only place nearby that has it stocked.
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Re: Loose Powder vs Pellets

Postby GMB54 » Sun Oct 20, 2019 5:39 pm

Im a bit spoiled since i can walk right into a local shop (Grafs) and buy Swiss or Olde Eynsford for no more than Triple7 loose. OE is actually cheaper and its pretty good too. I stocked up when Swiss was still $24lb locally.

$22.50ish shipping with hazmat aint too bad if you order 4lbs of powder or more.
https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/pr ... ctId/26168
https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/pr ... ctId/17006
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Re: Loose Powder vs Pellets

Postby Omega » Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:16 am

I started BP hunting to extend my season back in 95', I bought a cheap CVA, those in the blister pack at Walmart and a bottle of pyrodex. I don't recall having any good way to carry premeasured shots, just a powder measure to do it in the field. So when pellets came around, you bet I jumped on it, I was using 100 grains anyway, so it was quite convenient, and never had an issue with them. A few years ago friend told me about BH209, so I gave it a try, and from the beginning it gave me issues, first it was the ignition, the #11s just weren't cutting it, but by then I had one that used the 209 primers, and they also gave me issues because I was using the BP 209s. I switched to regular primers and for the most part things were looking up, but on occasion, like when I was shooting at a doe, it failed to ignite on me, had to load a second primer. Now I read that it needs/wants magnum primers and vents? With the extra price of it, you would thing it wouldn't have all these issues. Honestly I don't see much advantage to any combo; yes BH209 shoots cleaner, which helps at the range, but after that it's usually one shot, then I have time to clean it before the next hunt. So pyrodex or Triple seven in powder or pellet form have some issues with soot and the like, but for years before BH209 I had to figure out how to hunt with those limitations and never failed to get a deer.
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Re: Loose Powder vs Pellets

Postby GMB54 » Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:43 am

So you used a 1995 rifle design made well before BH209 and its the powders fault? You tried #11 and its the powders fault? You used more expensive ML 209s and it was the powders fault? Every mistake you made could have been prevented by going to Blackhorn209.com before you ever bought the first bottle. So clearly it was not the powder to blame, it was you and your rifle.

Almost any modern inline can be made reliable very cheaply. Virtually all of them have plugs available excluding models that require open ignition to comply with PacNW regs. Older Omegas and most new T/Cs need nothing. They ignite it just fine right out of the box. The old Savage ML-II and ML-BP worked just fine right out of the box.

I never use mag primers in my Knight/Lehigh plugs and never had a fail to fire. I paid under $30 for them and they have been flawless with a regular Win209 which are roughly half the price of a WinT7 primer. Ive shot hundreds of near slip fit conicals without a hitch and stellar accuracy so what is it im able to do that makes BH209 so elusive to others?
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Re: Loose Powder vs Pellets

Postby Omega » Mon Oct 21, 2019 11:38 am

GMB54 wrote:So you used a 1995 rifle design made well before BH209 and its the powders fault? You tried #11 and its the powders fault? You used more expensive ML 209s and it was the powders fault? Every mistake you made could have been prevented by going to Blackhorn209.com before you ever bought the first bottle. So clearly it was not the powder to blame, it was you and your rifle.

Almost any modern inline can be made reliable very cheaply. Virtually all of them have plugs available excluding models that require open ignition to comply with PacNW regs. Older Omegas and most new T/Cs need nothing. They ignite it just fine right out of the box. The old Savage ML-II and ML-BP worked just fine right out of the box.

I never use mag primers in my Knight/Lehigh plugs and never had a fail to fire. I paid under $30 for them and they have been flawless with a regular Win209 which are roughly half the price of a WinT7 primer. Ive shot hundreds of near slip fit conicals without a hitch and stellar accuracy so what is it im able to do that makes BH209 so elusive to others?
Yes, I used a black powder substitute in a black powder rifle, paid for expensive primers and failed to read the instructions(online), as many non BP experts would. So you are basically saying I need to replace my BP rifles or modify them to use a powder that essentially does nothing for me? All my rifles I've owned have had great accuracy if I do my part, even when I used RBs, and used within their limitations. I now have a Thompson Black Diamond, and a Thompson Triumph, sold the CVA, and both can handle BH209 without any mods, but once I finish the bottle I have I doubt I will get another. Again, BH209 has it's merits, as it does seem to be a cleaner powder than the others mentioned, but that is only good for range time as I clean my ML after every hunt and usually have only fired once, I have not seen any improvements at the target. Since I now rarely hunt BP anymore, the powder I have will last for some time, so it will be many years before that happens unless I do some plinking now and then.
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Re: Loose Powder vs Pellets

Postby GMB54 » Mon Oct 21, 2019 11:49 am

Would you expect a old Swede Mauser to handle the same loads as a modern 6.5x55?....Didnt think so. There is no difference. Modern loads need modern equipment.

Its super simple, 2 powders win at the inline matches over and over again....Swiss and mostly BH209. There must be a reason why so many are using it and winning year after year. If i was talking about a old Knight MK85 or 451 Gibbs i would grab some Swiss or OE and never look back. Either will smoke pellets from here to next Sunday for less cost per shot. Both are well suited in virtually any ignition type. Both produce speeds similar to Triple7 loose but better standard deviations.
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Re: Loose Powder vs Pellets

Postby Omega » Mon Oct 21, 2019 11:54 am

GMB54 wrote:Would you expect a old Swede Mauser to handle the same loads as a modern 6.5x55?....Didnt think so. There is no difference. Modern loads need modern equipment.

Its super simple, 2 powders win at the inline matches over and over again....Swiss and mostly BH209. There must be a reason why so many are using it and winning year after year. If i was talking about a old Knight MK85 or 451 Gibbs i would grab some Swiss or OE and never look back. Either will smoke pellets from here to next Sunday for less cost per shot. Both are well suited in virtually any ignition type. Both produce speeds similar to Triple7 loose but better standard deviations.

No, and I don't expect for a regular BP rifle to handle smokeless. And I don't shoot competitions, just hunt and plink so...
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Re: Loose Powder vs Pellets

Postby iowavf » Mon Oct 21, 2019 2:25 pm

I say it's up to the individual and I really don't care what anyone else uses in their ML. I've had my 45 cal Encore for around 30 years and tried Pyrodex , 777 pellets until BH came out and decided to give it a try after what I had read about it. Wasn't a fan of loose powder which I had tried and at the time the pellets seemed easier. Been using BH every since and won't go back to 777 due to the grud ring and not needing hot soapy water to clean is fine by me too. I do like being able to shoot many times with no issues and find it pretty easy to have pre-loads ready to go and have 3 or 4 speed loaders along with several tubes I've made with pre-loads in them when hunting.
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Re: Loose Powder vs Pellets

Postby RobDooley » Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:34 pm

I switched to BH 209 several years ago. No comparison. It is so hot there is minimal drop of 250 grain barnes tez at 100 yards with 110 grains of powder. Quite frankly, at first I could not believe it. You will need a breech plug designed specifically for BH powder; and shot shell primers (they are much hotter). Cleaning is also much easier. I use all their cleaning solvents. I buy mine at Sportsman Warehouse in Chattanooga. Oh, by the way, they almost always sell out of BH 209...not that you will need to buy a lot. That should tell you something. One container will last several years. Try it, You wont be sorry.
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Re: Loose Powder vs Pellets

Postby Wiley » Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:36 am

RobDooley wrote:I switched to BH 209 several years ago. No comparison. It is so hot there is minimal drop of 250 grain barnes tez at 100 yards with 110 grains of powder.


Be careful. Blackhorn IS a hotter load than other powders and pellets. Seems like it requires 10% less than other propellants. But, like you, I really like it under a Barnes.
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