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Turkey, the Kurds, and Syria

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Turkey, the Kurds, and Syria

Postby duckriver » Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:53 pm

Sounds like turkey is moving into to try and create a 20 mile deep "buffer"

My question is do you think they will stop there? And this will die down in a few days
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Re: Turkey, the Kurds, and Syria

Postby Wildcat » Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:30 pm

Turkey and the Kurds have been fighting each other for centuries. Someday it MIGHT stop but only if one or the other are all dead.

They've been cutting each others heads off all this time and still do today.
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Re: Turkey, the Kurds, and Syria

Postby iowavf » Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:48 pm

No, as wildcat said it’s just a way of life to them. All we did was pause it for awhile but didn’t change anything thing in the long run.
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Re: Turkey, the Kurds, and Syria

Postby TheLBLman » Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:10 pm

Who sent our troops over there, and for how long were they supposed to be there?
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Re: Turkey, the Kurds, and Syria

Postby LanceS4803 » Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:38 pm

I have a lot of respect for the Kurds, after having met them while deployed in Iraq.
Fierce and loyal. AND, Muslims are tolerant of Christians, as are Christians of Muslims.
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Re: Turkey, the Kurds, and Syria

Postby PickettSFHunter » Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:58 pm

I understand the Presidents position of not being involved in those countries but I am also deeply disappointed in our abandonment of the Kurds whom have been a great ally of ours. There just isn’t a right answer.


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Re: Turkey, the Kurds, and Syria

Postby WTM » Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:15 pm

LanceS4803 wrote:I have a lot of respect for the Kurds, after having met them while deployed in Iraq.
Fierce and loyal. AND, Muslims are tolerant of Christians, as are Christians of Muslims.


yep, protected the Christians while ISIS was trying kill them, Saddam was even scared to attack them except with gas.

i feel for the Syriac Christians that will more than likely be slaughtered or ran out. Sad as seeing as these people were the very earliest Christians.

God help the soldiers if they ever have to return. kind of reminds me of what we did in Basra during the Gulf war.

by the time Iran gets a good foothold in there, Israel will be an easy target for a cruise missile.
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Re: Turkey, the Kurds, and Syria

Postby TheLBLman » Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:21 pm

PickettSFHunter wrote:I understand the Presidents position of not being involved in those countries but I am also deeply disappointed in our abandonment of the Kurds whom have been a great ally of ours. There just isn’t a right answer.

x 2

Besides the U.S., what other countries are there now helping the Kurds?

I also believe there may be a lot more to Trump's strategy here than what has been disclosed publicly.
Think about it: His every move and even projected thought has been illegally leaked.
Even CIA agents have turned treasonous.
So, maybe, the strategy is being held a bit tighter now?

By the way, Turkey is a member of NATO, Syria is not.
This further complicates.
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Re: Turkey, the Kurds, and Syria

Postby duckriver » Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:34 pm

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Re: Turkey, the Kurds, and Syria

Postby TheLBLman » Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:48 pm

duckriver wrote:Interesting article from Jpost

Yep.
If I understand correctly,
all the other countries (except for the U.S.) had already "abandoned" the Kurds?

I'm trying to understand better just what was going on and just what is happening now.
As I understand it, we did not go there to protect the Kurds, but rather to defeat ISIS?
And it was originally supposed to be a 30-day mission?

Also, it "sounds" like this was discussed with both NATO and the UN
and they either wanted what's happening to happen, or didn't oppose it?
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Re: Turkey, the Kurds, and Syria

Postby duckriver » Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:09 pm

TheLBLman wrote:
duckriver wrote:Interesting article from Jpost

Yep.
If I understand correctly,
all the other countries (except for the U.S.) had already "abandoned" the Kurds?

I'm trying to understand better just what was going on and just what is happening now.
As I understand it, we did not go there to protect the Kurds, but rather to defeat ISIS?
And it was originally supposed to be a 30-day mission?

Also, it "sounds" like this was discussed with both NATO and the UN
and they either wanted what's happening to happen, or didn't oppose it?



That's basically the same thing I've gotten out of it
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Re: Turkey, the Kurds, and Syria

Postby TheLBLman » Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:15 pm

duckriver wrote:
TheLBLman wrote:Also, it "sounds" like this was discussed with both NATO and the UN
and they either wanted what's happening to happen, or didn't oppose it?



That's basically the same thing I've gotten out of it

If that be the case, many of those attacking Trump's decision would have been attacking a decision he made to the opposite
claiming he was going against NATO & the UN?

I don't know if pulling out is more bad or good.
Just saying, I believe there is a lot more to the story than what we're hearing on the media,
most of whom were going to condemn any Trump decision, regardless.
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Re: Turkey, the Kurds, and Syria

Postby TheLBLman » Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:21 pm

Asked about the fate of thousands of captured ISIS fighters who have been held prisoner by the Kurds, Trump said it wouldn’t be America’s problem:

“Well, they’re going to be escaping to Europe, that’s where they want to go.
They want to go back to their homes but Europe didn’t want them from us, we could have given it to them, they could have had trials, they could have done whatever they wanted.

But as usual, it’s not reciprocal. You know, my favorite word, ‘reciprocal.’
That’s all I want. I don’t want an edge, I just want reciprocal, it’s not a fair deal for the United States.”

Trump reminded reporters that scaling back America’s overseas commitments was one of his campaign promises.

“I campaigned on ending the endless wars. We’re all over the world fighting wars,” he said.
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Re: Turkey, the Kurds, and Syria

Postby duckriver » Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:22 pm

TheLBLman wrote:
duckriver wrote:
TheLBLman wrote:Also, it "sounds" like this was discussed with both NATO and the UN
and they either wanted what's happening to happen, or didn't oppose it?



That's basically the same thing I've gotten out of it

If that be the case, many of those attacking Trump's decision would have been attacking a decision he made to the opposite
claiming he was going against NATO & the UN?

I don't know if pulling out is more bad or good.
Just saying, I believe there is a lot more to the story than what we're hearing on the media,
most of whom were going to condemn any Trump decision, regardless.



There most certainly is something that's not being discussed. At least IMO there is
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Re: Turkey, the Kurds, and Syria

Postby TheLBLman » Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:34 pm

Listening to the media, one might think we're talking thousands of U.S. troops pulling out of Syria?

If this report is correct, the actual number of U.S. troops pulling out is only 50 to 100.

https://www.militarytimes.com/flashpoin ... esurgence/

“The United States Government has pressed France, Germany, and other European nations, from which many captured ISIS fighters came, to take them back, but they did not want them and refused,” the White House statement reads.

The White House said that the U.S. "will not hold them [ISIS detainees] for what could be many years and great cost to the United States taxpayer.”
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Re: Turkey, the Kurds, and Syria

Postby WTM » Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:39 pm

this is pretty much what will happen to the Christians in syria. Turkey already massacred some in 2018.

https://www.frc.org/updatearticle/20191008/syria-danger
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Re: Turkey, the Kurds, and Syria

Postby TheLBLman » Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:34 am

So far, at the below link, is the best unbiased explanation I've seen regarding just why Trump "abandoned" the Kurds.

Why is Turkey attacking the Kurds? Expert breaks it down
https://www.foxnews.com/media/why-is-tu ... ks-it-down

The abbreviated short version:

Dr. William Parker, president and CEO of EastWest Institute,
for a “dispassionate analysis” of the situation on the ground in Turkey and Syria . . . . .

Parker acknowledged that the reality is complicated, explaining that while the Kurds have been steadfast allies of the United States, their history with the Turks is more complicated.

“The Kurds have been our very good friends [of the United States] for a long time, back to the 1800s… and very close recently.
[The Kurds] did a great job -- continue to do a great job -- fighting [the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria],” he said.
“The reality though is we also have a very close NATO ally – Turkey.
It was the 14th country to join NATO in 1952 and is the second-largest army in NATO.”

All of the countries basically surrounding Turkey have Kurds of some sort in them and of course a lot in Turkey itself… You have the PKK, which most would agree is a terrorist organization and then you have the YPG…” explained Parker, breaking down some of the major political groups among the Kurdish people.

Parker said that Turkey's president sees his actions as one of self-defense against ongoing violence.

“When we really look at this and really take it seriously, we have to look at what is happening inside Turkey… multiple bombings going on, three very recently.
They kill 10, 15, 20 people at a shot… President Erdoğan has made it clear that he wants that to stop and he believes that most of those are coming from his southern border and he wants to secure his southern border," concluded Parker.
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Re: Turkey, the Kurds, and Syria

Postby WTM » Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:33 pm

TheLBLman wrote:Listening to the media, one might think we're talking thousands of U.S. troops pulling out of Syria?

If this report is correct, the actual number of U.S. troops pulling out is only 50 to 100.

https://www.militarytimes.com/flashpoin ... esurgence/

“The United States Government has pressed France, Germany, and other European nations, from which many captured ISIS fighters came, to take them back, but they did not want them and refused,” the White House statement reads.

The White House said that the U.S. "will not hold them [ISIS detainees] for what could be many years and great cost to the United States taxpayer.”


yeah but what you and other civilians do not realize is that those 50-100 soldiers are Army SF advisors. the problem with them pulling back and leaving the Kurds to their fate is that the distrust that other countries will have towards them now. the top objective for SF soldiers are to insert, gain the trust and train indigenous soldiers to defend from oppression wherever and whenever that may be. JSOC will have a hard time recovering from this and the timing is bad due to low numbers of fresh recruits volunteering for these assignments.
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Re: Turkey, the Kurds, and Syria

Postby TheLBLman » Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:09 pm

WTM, I do "get" what you're saying, and am not disagreeing.

However, I also at least somewhat understand Trump's position, the apparent fact the action he took was what NATO wanted (as well as the UN), and there is probably much more to the story than just what we've heard thus far.

I also understand that many career republicans, like Lindsey Graham, have been the same "business as usual" politicians and people who have kept us in continuous wars and global policing where we may have more to lose than to gain?

One additional thing, not exact words but something Trump said to this effect.

The original stated mission was accomplished?
It was supposed to be short term, not perpetual, not continuously ongoing?
Could we really expect the choices (to stay or to leave) to be any different in 5 years than they are now?

I'm more interested in saving the lives of our American servicemen, who have voluntarily enlisted to protect our Country. They did not sign up to be policemen for 3rd world countries, especially countries of little significance to the security of the United States.

It's not that we don't care, it's that we cannot afford the costs of being the world's police force.

If the choice were entirely yours, and we were talking solely about your children or grandchildren,
would you send your children/grandchildren to Syria for the sole purpose of protecting the Kurds?
Would you?

I'm just trying to understand.
Sometimes there is no good choice.
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Re: Turkey, the Kurds, and Syria

Postby Bambi Buster » Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:56 pm

No idea whether to attach any credibility to this story from Fox News, but regardless, it appears to me this would be an awkward time (to put it mildly) to be on an SF team in Syria working with Kurds.

"PENTAGON – A member of U.S. Special Forces serving alongside the Kurdish-led Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF) in Syria told Fox News on Wednesday they were witnessing Turkish atrocities on the frontlines. “I am ashamed for the first time in my career,” said the distraught soldier, who has been involved in the training of indigenous forces on multiple continents. The hardened service member is among the 1,000 or so U.S. troops who remain in Syria. “Turkey is not doing what it agreed to. It’s horrible,” the military source on the ground said. “We met every single security agreement. The Kurds met every single agreement [with the Turks]. There was no threat to the Turks -- none -- from this side of the border."...."

https://www.foxnews.com/world/turkey-sy ... dier-kurds
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