• Advertisement

Expert says CWD probable in humans in the future

Serious Deer Hunting Talk Only!

Re: Expert says CWD probable in humans in the future

Postby duckduck84 » Thu Feb 14, 2019 3:00 pm

Omega wrote:
megalomaniac wrote:Like I've said before, the science is rapidly unfolding. Not trying to fear monger, but I strongly believe that it is more likely CWD can be transmitted to humans than not. Believe what you want, no skin off my back. But I will not knowingly eat an infected animal.
I don't think anyone is saying they will eat venison that has been tested positive, just that we are not as worried about this than the standard safety precautions, that is all. When people start yelling the sky is falling, many will react adversely to the news and that is when bad things begin to happen, as with the culling of entire deer herds for no good reason.


This. However, I would even pose this question. How many people here who are worried about CWD transmission to humans via consumption of infected meat knowingly engage in behaviors that can cause heart disease or cancer? I would imagine just about all. At this point in our lives there is plenty of proof that alcohol, smoking, consumption of processed foods, red meat, etc. can cause fatal health effects while there is no strong evidence that CWD can even cross the species barrier to humans. Then, even if it could, it is still not highly likely that you will develop vCJD.
Aim small, miss small.
User avatar
duckduck84
8 Point
 
Posts: 1980
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2014 12:42 pm
Location: Atoka

Advertisement

Re: Expert says CWD probable in humans in the future

Postby megalomaniac » Thu Feb 14, 2019 3:02 pm

[quote="Omega] ...that is when bad things begin to happen, as with the culling of entire deer herds for no good reason.[/quote]

I suppose both sides can be accused of fear mongering :)

I do not expect TWRA to advocate an attempted elimination of the herd in the hot zone. That has already been tried and proven not to work. Reduction in deer density to decrease the transmission to the rest of the state, and strict punishment for those moving carcasses out of the hot zone I expect will be TWRA's primary focus.
megalomaniac
14 Point
 
Posts: 7929
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2005 12:00 pm
Location: Mississippi

Re: Expert says CWD probable in humans in the future

Postby megalomaniac » Thu Feb 14, 2019 3:11 pm

duckduck84 wrote:.. I would even pose this question. How many people here who are worried about CWD transmission to humans via consumption of infected meat knowingly engage in behaviors that can cause heart disease or cancer? I would imagine just about all. At this point in our lives there is plenty of proof that alcohol, smoking, consumption of processed foods, red meat, etc. can cause fatal health effects while there is no strong evidence that CWD can even cross the species barrier to humans. Then, even if it could, it is still not highly likely that you will develop vCJD.


What you would do to yourself is VERY different that what you would do to your family....

Would you give your children alcohol, tobacco, or other carcinogens, even though you may use them yourself? Of course not.

I kind of view the potential of CWD that way... EVEN IF I were to get CWD from an infected deer, I wouldn't have symptoms for probably a decade or longer. I'm old enough where I realize I'm not going to live forever. And I'm ok with that. But if my 11 y/o little girl got CWD 10 years from now, I could not live with myself watching her die from dementia at age 21. Just not worth the risk (although infinitesimally small) when it comes to the kids. At least my wife is safe- she hates deer meat :)

Hopefully in another 5 years we will know for certain that it is impossible for CWD prions to cause CJD in humans. Or we will know for certain that it is possible, and all will be informed how to protect themselves from potential infection.
megalomaniac
14 Point
 
Posts: 7929
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2005 12:00 pm
Location: Mississippi

Re: Expert says CWD probable in humans in the future

Postby DaveB » Thu Feb 14, 2019 3:14 pm

The sky is not falling, agreed.

A protein is not a virus and there appears to be little scientific or even folk stories supporting a jump from animal to human.

And yes there are scientists and others who see the next HIV/smallpox/anthrax/ money-maker on the horizon and want to get in first.

I do not know if the human prions are exact duplicates of deer prions or not. And since we do not know the genesis of whatever it is that bends the prions we are at a very loose end. Forced to believe one group who doesn't know and not believe another group that does not not know simply because we like the first group pronouncements better.

Do I think a lot of people will skip the CWD hotzone counties? Yes, I think so. Is this wise or justified? Don't know. None of us has the slightest inkling of what tomorrow will bring in the CWD world. Concrete facts are in dire shortage.
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield
DaveB
16 Point
 
Posts: 11785
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 1:43 am
Location: Shelby County

Re: Expert says CWD probable in humans in the future

Postby Omega » Thu Feb 14, 2019 3:23 pm

megalomaniac wrote:[quote="Omega] ...that is when bad things begin to happen, as with the culling of entire deer herds for no good reason.[/quote]

I suppose both sides can be accused of fear mongering :)

I do not expect TWRA to advocate an attempted elimination of the herd in the hot zone. That has already been tried and proven not to work. Reduction in deer density to decrease the transmission to the rest of the state, and strict punishment for those moving carcasses out of the hot zone I expect will be TWRA's primary focus.[/quote][/quote]
Well, maybe a bit of "no-fear" mongering :lol: , I'm sure TWRA will do what they feel is best for the herd, and hunting in general. But, as with the restrictions already in place, they may advocate other measures such as deer age quotas, or changes to the seasons, longer, shorter etc. It is already going to be a PITA to process in the field, for those that live outside the affected counties. And possibly expanded restrictions for feeders, salt licks, and maybe even food plots, state wide. I feel it is important to try and keep everything in perspective, take proper safety precautions, and keep it to facts only.
"Freedom is the sure possession of those alone who have the courage to defend it."
~Pericles~
User avatar
Omega
4 Point
 
Posts: 402
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2018 12:07 pm
Location: Clarksville, TN

Re: Expert says CWD probable in humans in the future

Postby BigAl » Thu Feb 14, 2019 4:08 pm

I can't even eat deer meet due to alpha-gal (mammal meat allergy from a tick bite). I'd say there's a better chance of many of you getting what I have than you being affected by an infected deer with CWD. But I bet it doesn't stop you from hunting or spending time in the woods.
We do not sell, rent, or wrestle pigs.
BigAl
16 Point
 
Posts: 19565
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2001 12:00 pm
Location: Fayette County, TN US

Re: Expert says CWD probable in humans in the future

Postby AT Hiker » Thu Feb 14, 2019 5:46 pm

Honestly, I have no idea how any logical person could read and study on current CWD topics and draw any type of conclusion. Why not error on the safe side?

Also, I don’t see much fear mongering. What I see (read rather) is that this is a vast conspiracy that stage agencies have conjured up to generate more revenue. Global warming just got sacked by CWD.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
User avatar
AT Hiker
14 Point
 
Posts: 8040
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2011 11:03 am
Location: Clarksville, Tennessee

Re: Expert says CWD probable in humans in the future

Postby poorhunter » Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:39 pm

AT Hiker wrote:Honestly, I have no idea how any logical person could read and study on current CWD topics and draw any type of conclusion. Why not error on the safe side?

Also, I don’t see much fear mongering. What I see (read rather) is that this is a vast conspiracy that stage agencies have conjured up to generate more revenue. Global warming just got sacked by CWD.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I won’t eat untested venison for that reason...error on the safe side because there’s really just so much we don’t know. Call it fear-mongering or silly, I don’t care. I’m not feeding this to my children until more is known.
poorhunter
10 Point
 
Posts: 3325
Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2015 6:23 pm
Location: Hickman county

Re: Expert says CWD probable in humans in the future

Postby duckduck84 » Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:37 pm

megalomaniac wrote:
duckduck84 wrote:.. I would even pose this question. How many people here who are worried about CWD transmission to humans via consumption of infected meat knowingly engage in behaviors that can cause heart disease or cancer? I would imagine just about all. At this point in our lives there is plenty of proof that alcohol, smoking, consumption of processed foods, red meat, etc. can cause fatal health effects while there is no strong evidence that CWD can even cross the species barrier to humans. Then, even if it could, it is still not highly likely that you will develop vCJD.


What you would do to yourself is VERY different that what you would do to your family....

Would you give your children alcohol, tobacco, or other carcinogens, even though you may use them yourself? Of course not.

I kind of view the potential of CWD that way... EVEN IF I were to get CWD from an infected deer, I wouldn't have symptoms for probably a decade or longer. I'm old enough where I realize I'm not going to live forever. And I'm ok with that. But if my 11 y/o little girl got CWD 10 years from now, I could not live with myself watching her die from dementia at age 21. Just not worth the risk (although infinitesimally small) when it comes to the kids. At least my wife is safe- she hates deer meat :)

Hopefully in another 5 years we will know for certain that it is impossible for CWD prions to cause CJD in humans. Or we will know for certain that it is possible, and all will be informed how to protect themselves from potential infection.


I understand that line of thinking, to a degree. However, you still put your child in plenty of dangerous situations where they have a much higher likelihood of being injured or killed. Every time they get in a car, go to a public place, go to school, etc. something could happen to them. I'm not really trying to change anyone's mind one way or another, but I think people should really take a breath and look at this for what it is and also what it isn't. I am 34 years old and have amazing land to hunt right in the middle of the CWD zone. So if I have eaten CWD infected meat, who knows what the future holds for me and my wife and my friends and my nieces and nephews and other family because we have all eaten deer from there. Now, every deer this year, as I've said previously, has tested negative and I have no issue eating it, no one else does either. Would I eat an untested deer in the future? Most likely not. Would I eat a positive deer? No. Am I going to quit hunting because CWD is out there? Absolutely not.

Final point, I think we can be cautious and accept that things happen and we should exercise good judgement without pushing the narrative that CWD is most likely, probably, I heard a guy say that it could, jump to humans and turn us all into extras on The Walking Dead.
Aim small, miss small.
User avatar
duckduck84
8 Point
 
Posts: 1980
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2014 12:42 pm
Location: Atoka

Re: Expert says CWD probable in humans in the future

Postby duckduck84 » Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:39 pm

AT Hiker wrote:Honestly, I have no idea how any logical person could read and study on current CWD topics and draw any type of conclusion. Why not error on the safe side?

Also, I don’t see much fear mongering. What I see (read rather) is that this is a vast conspiracy that stage agencies have conjured up to generate more revenue. Global warming just got sacked by CWD.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I think it is actually fairly simple to draw a conclusion unless you just really want to believe that it can jump to humans.
Aim small, miss small.
User avatar
duckduck84
8 Point
 
Posts: 1980
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2014 12:42 pm
Location: Atoka

Re: Expert says CWD probable in humans in the future

Postby fairchaser » Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:01 pm

The premise that it can’t happen ever because it hasn’t happened in a very long time is flawed. You could say the same thing about getting CWD or getting it in TN. No one that has researched it even the CDC says it’s impossible. How possible we don’t know. It certainly appears the odds are much less than being in a plane crash and yet we fly all the time. The big difference is the delay! We are just now finding out that we have the disease in TN but in reality it’s been here for several years. The thought of finding out that humans have been suffering from health issues due to CWD years down the road is more than we want to risk.
User avatar
fairchaser
12 Point
 
Posts: 5205
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2011 1:21 pm
Location: TN, USA

Re: Expert says CWD probable in humans in the future

Postby TheLBLman » Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:54 pm

I don't mean to come across as insensitive to those hunting in places with a greatly decreased deer density, especially if they believe their reduced deer sightings have been caused by CWD.
I'm agreeing that absolutely everything about CWD is bad news.
But is it bad for my personal health to eat a deer that had CWD?

fairchaser wrote: It certainly appears the odds are much less than being in a plane crash and yet we fly all the time.
The big difference is the delay!
We are just now finding out that we have the disease in TN but in reality it’s been here for several years.
The thought of finding out that humans have been suffering from health issues due to CWD years down the road is more than we want to risk.

:poke:
What about the risk of falling out a tree while deer hunting?
Might that be a greater risk to your health than CWD?


How long has CWD been in Colorado?
I'd bet it was in Colorado many, many years before it was confirmed there?
How many DECADES we talking? Already a human lifetime?
And still zero evidence of CWD causing any health problems to humans?

Never mind,
more people die yearly eating lettuce than have ever died from CWD?
Also, many people have died from eating USDA-inspected beef?
But no one is known to have even gotten sick from consuming CWD-infected venison?

I continue to believe we have bigger health and life risk worries than CWD.
Do agree we are prudent to proceed cautiously ahead in exploring all aspects.

And, no, I will not personally eat venison known to be CWD-infected.
Otherwise, I'm continuing to deer hunt & eat venison, as usual, to what extent possible,
although the fear-mongers may reduce the possibilities for the rest of us.
Last edited by TheLBLman on Fri Feb 15, 2019 2:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
TheLBLman
Non-Typical
 
Posts: 26473
Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2002 12:00 pm
Location: Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN

Re: Expert says CWD probable in humans in the future

Postby TheLBLman » Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:58 pm

fairchaser wrote:The premise that it can’t happen ever because it hasn’t happened in a very long time is flawed.

Although I do agree with your statement,
I also believe more flawed is all the irrational fear-mongering about the human health threat of CWD.

Please make no mistake, I am VERY concerned about all the implications of CWD.
Everything about it is bad, especially to the future of deer management & deer hunting.
Just zero evidence eating a CWD-infected deer will ever carry as much risk to your life
as eating some iceberg lettuce or some USDA-inspected chicken.
TheLBLman
Non-Typical
 
Posts: 26473
Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2002 12:00 pm
Location: Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN

Re: Expert says CWD probable in humans in the future

Postby Mike Belt » Fri Feb 15, 2019 2:17 pm

Just speaking personally... The biggest flaw I have to eating deer meat potentially contaminated with CWD is the length of time finding out testing has provided positive results. I hate that it's here. I hate that it will probably make a huge difference in the way I and others deer hunt in the future and what we may shoot. I hate that I have a lot of freezer space normally dedicated to deer taken over the course of a season. I don't look forward to skinning and cutting up deer I shoot but will gladly do it because we consume quite a bit of it. I certainly don't look forward to standing over my workbench for hours painstakingly manicuring the meat I keep before wrapping and freezing it but I do so because I'm very picky about having a clean product. Ultimately, what I don't want to look forward to is after spending all the time it takes to hunt, shoot, skin and quarter, and cut up and wrap meat, to have to throw it away... and I'm not alone. Now that we're facing this problem I think the saving grace as far as hunters killing deer to be consumed may be to speed up the detection process to no more than a day or two or better yet a couple of hours. Usually the weather will suffice letting a deer hang that long during season before processing. That would rule out wasting a lot of time and work for those doing it on their own or having it done by a processor.
Mike Belt
Non-Typical
 
Posts: 27042
Joined: Fri Mar 26, 1999 1:00 pm
Location: Lakeland, Tn.

Re: Expert says CWD probable in humans in the future

Postby duckduck84 » Fri Feb 15, 2019 2:46 pm

fairchaser wrote:The premise that it can’t happen ever because it hasn’t happened in a very long time is flawed. The thought of finding out that humans have been suffering from health issues due to CWD years down the road is more than we want to risk.


No one is saying it can't happen, ever, but the line of thinking that it can jump a species barrier based on little to no evidence with decades of existence of the prion is also flawed. Your choice, and anyone else's, to not hunt or not eat venison anymore is certainly your decision to make. I just think it is, personally, a bit irrational when you look at things logically and from a larger perspective.

If I may, let me give you a personal example. I hate flying, don't like any part of it other than getting to my destination quicker. However, I have learned to overcome that irrational fear because I did research, talked to pilots, and intentionally flew when I could to help ease my fear. Do I have to fly? Not really. I could drive most places and just miss out on going to others, like the wonderful vacation I had a few years ago in Cancun. Do you have to hunt? Certainly not, but might you miss out on a great hobby and all the joy that comes from deer hunting? I think yes. Just my opinions on the matter, everyone has to make their own decisions.
Aim small, miss small.
User avatar
duckduck84
8 Point
 
Posts: 1980
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2014 12:42 pm
Location: Atoka

Re: Expert says CWD probable in humans in the future

Postby MUP » Fri Feb 15, 2019 3:43 pm

fairchaser wrote:The premise that it can’t happen ever because it hasn’t happened in a very long time is flawed.


Has it happened before? I was under the impression that it has never happened?
Image "Amateurs" built the Ark.

"Professionals" built the Titanic.
User avatar
MUP
Non-Typical
 
Posts: 66595
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 7:04 am
Location: Just North of Chatt-town

Re: Expert says CWD probable in humans in the future

Postby duckduck84 » Fri Feb 15, 2019 3:57 pm

MUP wrote:
fairchaser wrote:The premise that it can’t happen ever because it hasn’t happened in a very long time is flawed.


Has it happened before? I was under the impression that it has never happened?


It hasn't ever happened. I believe the point he was trying to make is that just because it hasn't happened since we discovered it many decades ago doesn't mean it can't ever happen.

I think everyone just thinks it's going to happen to us because we are Tennessee and we are special. :rotf:
Aim small, miss small.
User avatar
duckduck84
8 Point
 
Posts: 1980
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2014 12:42 pm
Location: Atoka

Re: Expert says CWD probable in humans in the future

Postby DaveB » Fri Feb 15, 2019 4:18 pm

The incubation period and the disease progression (in animals) has been identified in a general way.

Disease progression in Humans is expected to follow that of vCJD (which is BSE or Mad Cow Disease). No one survives a year. Approximately 6 months after symptoms become apparent the ill person can no longer take care of themselves-feeding, cleaning, etc.
You die between the 6th and 12th month.

So since we have not seen anyone hit the skids so fast and in such a dramatic way we can assume the disease remains in the cervid arena.

Knowing the prion bends should be easily detectable during the incubation period during which the disease is spreading throughout the nervous system building strength. You would think that kind of procedure already exists but seems like no it does not.

It would be nice if we could fill in some blanks on CWD.
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield
DaveB
16 Point
 
Posts: 11785
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 1:43 am
Location: Shelby County

Re: Expert says CWD probable in humans in the future

Postby fairchaser » Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:21 pm

MUP wrote:
fairchaser wrote:The premise that it can’t happen ever because it hasn’t happened in a very long time is flawed.


Has it happened before? I was under the impression that it has never happened?


Scrapie, a prion disease was here before CWD. It had never jumped the barrier to cervids until it did. Mad cow only infected cows until it infected humans. There’s a first time for everything. No, it hasn’t and maybe it never will.
User avatar
fairchaser
12 Point
 
Posts: 5205
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2011 1:21 pm
Location: TN, USA

Re: Expert says CWD probable in humans in the future

Postby fairchaser » Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:31 pm

I don’t think anyone is saying they will stop consuming venison under any circumstances. I think the majority will not consume venison that tests positive for CWD. I think many will choose to consume venison even if they don’t know either way. Since I hunt in a hot zone, I won’t consume any deer not tested and only then if it comes back negative. I still plan on eating deer. However, if anything changes regarding human infection, I would likely discontinue eating venison altogether just because the risks are too high. Until then, bon appetit.
User avatar
fairchaser
12 Point
 
Posts: 5205
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2011 1:21 pm
Location: TN, USA

PreviousNext

Return to Serious Deer Hunting Talk

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: encore06, FTG-05, Nsghunter, scn, WORM82 and 23 guests