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CWD Survey? (Calling SCN)

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Re: CWD Survey? (Calling SCN)

Postby JJ3 » Sun Apr 14, 2019 10:30 pm

Here is a link to the survey. They published it at the public meeting Tuesday night in Somerville, and also have it published on the TWRA Facebook page. And it is on the top of the page of the CWD in Tennessee TWRA website (Give feedback ...)

https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/CWDinTN

I agree with Fairchaser and thought the survey was good. I didn’t agree with everything and gave my feedback (like the August hunt will not encourage me to kill any additional deer.). There is also a box to provide additional comments.
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Re: CWD Survey? (Calling SCN)

Postby Boll Weevil » Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:01 am

JJ3 wrote:I didn’t agree with everything and gave my feedback (like the August hunt will not encourage me to kill any additional deer.)

Agree with you. I've still not been able to get my head around the logic of "CWD is present = kill more deer." It's here, it's in the dirt, and has been for years. How is killing even MORE deer going to change that? It's infectious and can spread throughout the herd; how is killing even MORE deer going to change that?

I honestly don't see us killing many if any more deer on my farm. 1) I don't understand the logic and 2) Good grief, how many deer can family/friends eat...I'm not going to to shoot'em just to shoot'em.
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Re: CWD Survey? (Calling SCN)

Postby Grnwing » Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:58 pm

My farm is in the hotzone and from what I understand the TWRA is trying to contain the spread. Increased doe harvest would help reduce the deer densities, but how much more liberal can you get than 3/day for the entire deer season and then allowing additional anterless hunt at the end of the season in Unit L. Bucks are the ones that will travel many miles during the rut, wondering outside those CWD zones and pose additional threat of spreading to new areas. I do not advocate for killing all the deer/bucks, Wisconsin did this and failed miserably. The proposed August hunt would provide additional opportunity for all deer hunters(resident and non resident) to get a shot at a velvet buck and help reduce the buck population. Killing the bucks early in August, would prevent the possibility of those bucks wondering into non-CWD areas. Again, we only have to go back to the three buck limit days to see how many folks actually shot 3 bucks in a season, and i would think that even fewer will kill 4 or more bucks under the proposed regulation changes. I'll hunt it and keep my buck standards at 3.5YO or >125". Some years that meant I shot 3 bucks(under the old regs) and other years, like last, I only killed one. The thing that concerns me most, is that folks will most likely reduce their standards in the CWD zone.
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Re: CWD Survey? (Calling SCN)

Postby CBU93 » Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:36 pm

TheLBLman wrote:
This may be much a ruse to go back to the high-buck limits of pre-1998?

To those who are thinking, ok, but this is only in a handful of counties, not in mine,
think again. CWD will likely soon be documented whatever county you're hunting.



Who is fear mongering now?
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Re: CWD Survey? (Calling SCN)

Postby Hunter 257W » Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:33 pm

I got a survey by email and completed it. For the most part I think it was a good survey with one exception. Several of the questions asked how different potential changes to the regulations would affect my hunting. Since I don't hunt in the counties that have been found to have CWD I answered that most of the changes will have no impact to my hunting. I would answer quite a bit different if I hunted in those counties.

Since they are claiming that older bucks are most likely to have the disease and spread it, it seems logical to target those animals in the harvest. If killing a bunch of bucks in the August hunt will accomplish that so be it. Personally I don't think they will get the kill numbers they are wanting with the August hunt though - the heat is too bad to get numbers anything like the traditional Rifle Opening weekend. I do think it's a good idea to offer the "refund bucks" that don't count towards your limit if you kill a buck that tests positive with CWD. These are hard times for deer hunters and there's not going to be an easy fix from what I can see with this disease.
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Re: CWD Survey? (Calling SCN)

Postby fairchaser » Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:46 pm

Boll Weevil wrote:
JJ3 wrote:I didn’t agree with everything and gave my feedback (like the August hunt will not encourage me to kill any additional deer.)

Agree with you. I've still not been able to get my head around the logic of "CWD is present = kill more deer." It's here, it's in the dirt, and has been for years. How is killing even MORE deer going to change that? It's infectious and can spread throughout the herd; how is killing even MORE deer going to change that?

I honestly don't see us killing many if any more deer on my farm. 1) I don't understand the logic and 2) Good grief, how many deer can family/friends eat...I'm not going to to shoot'em just to shoot'em.


It won’t change anything Boll Weevil but fewer deer means a slower spread to other areas. The CWD strategy is containment. That’s all that can be done. So yes, killing more deer can help contain the disease somewhat. They especially want to target older bucks that could travel miles with the disease. Nothing can stop it but this is all we have until there’s a cure.
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Re: CWD Survey? (Calling SCN)

Postby Mike Belt » Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:47 am

I'm curious here....
I keep hearing CWD hits the older buck population more so than the rest of the herd. Why exactly? Usually bucks are solitary animals or may be in small bachelor groups. They generally don't travel far outside the rutting timeframe and they may not have the same home ranges or feeding areas as doe groups or families. In contrast does are usually in family groups. When feeding they eat in the same areas and there's probably a fair amount of grooming going on; generally a high number of animals in constant close proximity.

Is this "kill out the bucks" mentality because they actually have the disease or because during the rut when they may be traveling great distances through virgin territories they are more likely to come into contact with it and thus spread it? Is it because it takes a while for the disease to manifest itself and older bucks have simply been around longer thus potentially having had more opportunity to having had contact with the disease? If that's the case wouldn't older does be just as susceptible?
Last edited by Mike Belt on Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: CWD Survey? (Calling SCN)

Postby TheLBLman » Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:11 am

To add to what Mike is saying, which hasn't been previously discussed on this thread?

Where do bucks come from?
They are born from the doe segment.

What typically happens to 1 1/2-yr-old ("yearling") bucks?
They disperse.
And they disperse beyond the typical rut range of "older" bucks?

Mike Belt wrote: In contrast does are usually in family groups. When feeding they eat in the same areas and there's probably a fair amount of grooming going on; generally a high number of animals in constant close proximity.

Bottom line remains this:

Targeting bucks (and "bucks only") in the summer will cause a decrease in the doe harvest.

That results in more bucks being born (a year later),
perhaps more likely to acquire CWD than current middle-aged & older bucks?
These bucks (and more of them) then "disperse" from their birth areas,
typically beyond "rut" ranges of older bucks?

So what is the best way to reduce the number of dispersing bucks?

By "orphaning" button bucks (simply killing more females with male fawns)
these orphaned bucks tend to NOT disperse beyond their birth areas,
unlike male deer whose mothers are still living.

So, not only is the ongoing deer population mainly controlled by the doe harvest (or lack thereof), but so is yearling buck dispersal. Again, "buck-only" summertime hunting will absolutely decrease the doe harvest (due to the practical self-imposed limits most hunters have).

So it becomes more an issue will a 3-deer-a-year hunter kill 3 bucks, 2 bucks & 1 doe, or 1 buck & or 2 does?
The ONGOING population is profoundly different when masses of hunters kill 2 or 3 bucks instead of 2 or 3 does.

Some have even said the dirty little secret is that doe harvest is often more a function of buck limits than doe limits.

While the opportunity to take "a" buck may increase both doe hunting and doe harvests,
the opportunity to take many bucks may decrease doe hunting & doe harvests.
100% the case when that hunting is "buck only" as is this August "trophy" buck hunt.

We all have "practical" limits to both our days afield hunting and how many deer we kill annually.
Many who may use vacation days in the summer, will have fewer vacation days for use in the fall.
Those who kill a deer or two earlier, will likely kill a deer or two less later in the season.

Early season "buck only" hunting may increase the year's buck harvest,
but it will also decrease the year's doe harvest.

Which harvest (doe or buck) is more important as an effort to slow the spread of CWD?

Give that some thought.
Not fear-mongering, just pointing out some inconsistencies in the rationale of targeting older bucks during August as it pertains to CWD.
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Re: CWD Survey? (Calling SCN)

Postby JJ3 » Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:46 pm

Mike Belt wrote:Is this "kill out the bucks" mentality because they actually have the disease or because during the rut when they may be traveling great distances through virgin territories they are more likely to come into contact with it and thus spread it? Is it because it takes a while for the disease to manifest itself and older bucks have simply been around longer thus potentially having had more opportunity to having had contact with the disease? If that's the case wouldn't older does be just as susceptible?


Mike I don’t think TWRA is promoting a “kill out the bucks”. From last weeks public meeting it sounds like they are encouraging and exploring means to increase the overall kill in the high risk counties to try to keep It contained. They stated that with current 3 anterless/day limit in Unit L there isn’t much they can do to encourage more doe kills. They certainly will encourage hunters to kill more does in the high risk counties within these existing limits. But they are very liberal limits already.

The consideration to add rifle to the August hunt and have August bucks be bonus bucks is a proposal to encourage a higher buck kill. As is also the “replacement” buck if a buck tests positive.

For me I would much prefer seeing rifle and/or muzzleloader open 2 weeks earlier and maybe with an additional buck limit. I would be encouraged to increase my buck kill and probably target 2.5 yo or older in this time period. As I have stated before, I really have no interest in the August hunt.
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Re: CWD Survey? (Calling SCN)

Postby BigAl » Wed Apr 17, 2019 2:48 pm

Lots of questions in this thread. I will point out a couple of things that was covered in the meeting that I saw asked above:
Which harvest (doe or buck) is more important as an effort to slow the spread of CWD? Bucks. They seem to have a higher prevalence rate than does.
Someone also asked why target the early buck hunt for an increase? Since bucks have a higher prevalence rate, killing them before their extensive travels during the rut could slow the spread.
Since all counties in the hot zone are already in unit L, not much can be done to increase the doe harvest.
It was emphasized there's no way to stop the spread of the disease, you can only try to slow the progression.
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