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Suspension of LBL quota hunts - Hunter Input Contact Info

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Suspension of LBL quota hunts - Hunter Input Contact Info

Postby Southern Sportsman » Tue Feb 11, 2020 7:06 pm

It has been posted in other threads, and those who like to turkey hunt LBL are probably already aware:

The spring turkey quota hunts have been suspended this year at LBL. They typically have three quota hunts - a youth only hunt the first weekend in April then weekend hunts the second and third weekends in April. After the last quota, it is open for general public access for two weeks. The quota application period is usually the month of February. Last week they posted the following on their website:

"There will be no draw hunt this turkey season. At the request of many turkey hunters, we will not conduct a turkey draw hunt this season in order to give all turkey hunters an equal opportunity to enjoy a traditional opening day experience. Many turkey hunters expressed an interest in hunting fresh uneducated birds. We are suspending the turkey draw this season to provide this unique experience. Points accumulated in previous seasons will carry over to next season when we return to normal draw hunts.
Kentucky Turkey Hunt Season April 18-30, 2020
Tennessee Hunt Season April 18-23, 2020 and April 24-30, 2020"


They have had these quota hunts at LBL for as long as I've been around. For years it has been 100% draw with 1 priority point - meaning anyone can hunt the first weekend (after the youth hunt) every-other year, and everyone can hunt the two "open" weeks every single year. But they took away 30% of the hunting days, including a designated youth hunt, to appease a few people who whined about not being the first ones to hunt "uneducated" turkeys on a 170,000 acre tract of federally owned (US Forrest Service) public land. And they did so without any public notice or comment that I am aware of.

I have a lot of thoughts on it. I'm not particularly mad about the short term result. In effect it will reduce the gobbler kill and substantially delay the kill that does occur which I think is a good thing given current population trends. And I'm not sure I believe their justification. I have a hard time believing that division under the United States Forrest Service makes management decisions like this based on the complaints of whiners who have the same opportunities as everyone else. Turkeys there are tough to kill. But blaming that on or being upset by other hunters "educating" turkeys on federally owned public land is moronic. But that's their story and their sticking to it. And taking away hunter opportunities on public land to appease a few people who whined about public land turkeys being too "educated" is too stupid to ignore.

After asking around for answers, John Westbrook (LBL "Environmental Stewardship Department Manager") has advised that they are keeping "a call log of hunter input." It feels a little like "let's just change it and see if anyone calls to complain." But, for lack of other options, I will call and complain. Though others might want to as well.

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Re: Suspension of LBL quota hunts - Hunter Input Contact Inf

Postby AT Hiker » Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:23 pm

Thank you for sharing this.


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Re: Suspension of LBL quota hunts - Hunter Input Contact Inf

Postby nate17 » Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:56 pm

https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?pat ... ion=prelim

Just gonna drop this here. 7913(b) Closure Procedures should interest you.
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Re: Suspension of LBL quota hunts - Hunter Input Contact Inf

Postby nate17 » Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:02 pm

nate17 wrote:https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?path=/prelim@title16/chapter98&edition=prelim

Just gonna drop this here. 7913(b) Closure Procedures should interest you.



I am unaware of a public comment period regarding the closure. Would probably take a FOIA request to know for sure.
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Re: Suspension of LBL quota hunts - Hunter Input Contact Inf

Postby deerfever » Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:57 pm

Nate , I have tried to contact you through PM when you requested but they sit in my outbox. Something is wrong because I tried to contact another member and it never went out. Anyway just letting you know I didn't mind at all talking with you . Southern Sportsman has you headed in the right direction! Hopefully this matter will get resolved! I have hunted public land turkey for 38 years never heard of anyone who thought they should have the right to hunt uneducated birds on public land ! The reasoning is hilarious. That is part of what makes a public land bird so rewarding when you get him!
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Re: Suspension of LBL quota hunts - Hunter Input Contact Inf

Postby Southern Sportsman » Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:54 am

nate17 wrote:https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?path=/prelim@title16/chapter98&edition=prelim

Just gonna drop this here. 7913(b) Closure Procedures should interest you.


The problem with this is what they have done with the turkey dates will not constitute a “closure” within the meaning of that statute. LBL is still open to hunting and fishing, they have just altered the dates and access rules for one species. I’ll have to dig through the CFR (code of federal regulations) to figure out the exact process, but LBL and any federally managed land area will have some discretion over season dates and limits. But using that discretion to take away opportunities to pacify a small group of whiners is absurd. The arbitrary way the decision was made very well may have violated some rule, but not this statute.
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Re: Suspension of LBL quota hunts - Hunter Input Contact Inf

Postby Roost 1 » Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:27 pm

So there is a group asking people to contact Rand Paul’s office and file a complaint. They say this will result in a congressional inquiry. I’m just passing along the info because several in here are very upset.
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Re: Suspension of LBL quota hunts - Hunter Input Contact Inf

Postby Carlos » Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:58 pm

I haven't got a dog in this fight.

Sounds to me like some cry baby wasn't drawn, and so they called their cousin and complained.

Since when did fairness become a thing?
I'm teaching my kiddos that fair isn't something that's given in life. Nothings fair, somebody will always get less while another gets more.

What in the cornbread hell is happening here? It's not 'fair' because the random computerized drawing didnt pick me? So now I'll whine about it and the officials will withdraw the opportunity from those who were selected?
SMH.
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Re: Suspension of LBL quota hunts - Hunter Input Contact Inf

Postby nate17 » Thu Feb 13, 2020 10:24 pm

I don’t think anyone complained. I believe that was a poorly thought out and completely untrue statement that they believed would appease the quota hunt crowd. I would like to see them provide some evidence of any complaints that have been logged against the quota hunt. I would bet my next paycheck they don’t exist.
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Re: Suspension of LBL quota hunts - Hunter Input Contact Inf

Postby TheLBLman » Thu Feb 13, 2020 10:38 pm

nate17 wrote:I believe that was a poorly thought out and completely untrue statement that they believed would appease the quota hunt crowd.

x 2

Just my 2 cents, but I believe the biggest mistake has been in simply not being totally open and "transparent" as to every aspect of these turkey hunting changes.

I believe if all the rationale were disclosed, there would be less disagreement with the changes.
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Re: Suspension of LBL quota hunts - Hunter Input Contact Inf

Postby RUGER » Fri Feb 14, 2020 6:06 am

I wonder if the dude in charge just flat out didn't do his job and get it started?
Pffft forget that, I'm going fishing.
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Re: Suspension of LBL quota hunts - Hunter Input Contact Inf

Postby Andy S. » Fri Feb 14, 2020 6:58 am

RUGER wrote:I wonder if the dude in charge just flat out didn't do his job and get it started?
Very possible with big government, with likely no consequences.
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Re: Suspension of LBL quota hunts - Hunter Input Contact Inf

Postby BULL MOOSE » Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:48 am

I would love to see Westbrook’s resume.
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Re: Suspension of LBL quota hunts - Hunter Input Contact Inf

Postby AT Hiker » Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:15 am

Andy S. wrote:
RUGER wrote:I wonder if the dude in charge just flat out didn't do his job and get it started?
Very possible with big government, with likely no consequences.


I could totally see this scenario playing out:

Someone says; “hey Bob, your doing the stupid quota hunt paperwork this year” Bob is like “do what?” Now Bob is in charge, Bob has no idea what’s going on because his other job is facilities management. Bob doesn’t hunt and has vacation coming up on top of making sure the contract permits are up to date in the boiler room. Bob puts it off, Bob then realizes he procrastinated to long. Bob then makes up a story....




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Re: Suspension of LBL quota hunts - Hunter Input Contact Inf

Postby RUGER » Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:33 am

BULL MOOSE wrote:I would love to see Westbrook’s resume.


There is so much I could say right now...... better not. ;)
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Re: Suspension of LBL quota hunts - Hunter Input Contact Inf

Postby Southern Sportsman » Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:52 am

AT Hiker wrote:
Andy S. wrote:
RUGER wrote:I wonder if the dude in charge just flat out didn't do his job and get it started?
Very possible with big government, with likely no consequences.


I could totally see this scenario playing out:

Someone says; “hey Bob, your doing the stupid quota hunt paperwork this year” Bob is like “do what?” Now Bob is in charge, Bob has no idea what’s going on because his other job is facilities management. Bob doesn’t hunt and has vacation coming up on top of making sure the contract permits are up to date in the boiler room. Bob puts it off, Bob then realizes he procrastinated to long. Bob then makes up a story....



If I had to bet on one scenario, this would be it. The application usually opens Feb. 1. Through the first week of February, the website just said “Coming Soon!” under the Turkey section. I would actually be happier if this is what happened than I would be if their explanation were true. Incompetence is annoying, but it’s more palatable to me than intentionally taking away hunter opportunities because a few idiots didn’t like kids and others “educating” “their” turkeys.
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Re: Suspension of LBL quota hunts - Hunter Input Contact Inf

Postby Southern Sportsman » Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:57 am

RUGER wrote:
BULL MOOSE wrote:I would love to see Westbrook’s resume.


There is so much I could say right now...... better not. ;)


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Re: Suspension of LBL quota hunts - Hunter Input Contact Inf

Postby RUGER » Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:54 am

Southern Sportsman wrote:
RUGER wrote:
BULL MOOSE wrote:I would love to see Westbrook’s resume.


There is so much I could say right now...... better not. ;)


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Re: Suspension of LBL quota hunts - Hunter Input Contact Inf

Postby th88 » Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:30 pm

Folks keep mentioning cry babies... Pretty funny to me considering all the crying on here about it.

But I don't hunt LBL so have no skin in the game. I am extremely familiar with the federal (and state) wildlife agencies and work in the field myself. This is a rather odd situation. It would make much more sense if they based it on the 'not interrupting breeding' theory. What throws me for a loop though is going right back to a draw the next year.

There has been one instance where I've saw drastic last minute changes like this happen on federal grounds. It was on a NWR when a new manager took over. He made some rather substantial changes to the hunt schedules as soon as he became manager... But that doesn't seem to be the case here.

Is kind of hilarious to think of the 'Oops!' scenario!
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Re: Suspension of LBL quota hunts - Hunter Input Contact Inf

Postby nate17 » Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:18 pm

AT Hiker wrote:
Andy S. wrote:
RUGER wrote:I wonder if the dude in charge just flat out didn't do his job and get it started?
Very possible with big government, with likely no consequences.


I could totally see this scenario playing out:

Someone says; “hey Bob, your doing the stupid quota hunt paperwork this year” Bob is like “do what?” Now Bob is in charge, Bob has no idea what’s going on because his other job is facilities management. Bob doesn’t hunt and has vacation coming up on top of making sure the contract permits are up to date in the boiler room. Bob puts it off, Bob then realizes he procrastinated to long. Bob then makes up a story....




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Replace the name Bob with John and I think you probably hit the nail on the head.
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